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Thank you sensei8, i too, always found a way to train. but i also see those times of training alone, without a style or dojo, as lapses... and then there were the actual lapses of not training at all. though those of no training at all were few and far between... ive almost always had at least a gym membership of some type, even if it was just a community gym with the basics...and even there i would incorporate martial arts to the training routine....life can and will get in the way, but that in itself is a lesson, and shows how strong our roots are. part of the training is how we overcome obstacles and how we maintain composure. it forms who we become as adults...... i moved and traveled around a lot after adulthood with career. but found a way to still run and teach at a couple dojos, and even now have made a way to still train.... life is an adventure. but a way can be found.... i see real life not as getting in the way but as being part of the overall lesson. not insensitive at all. we all have to make those choices of where life leads us. but we can also make the choices of how we react and who we become along the path we choose. and if wanted strongly enough we can find a way. it becomes a lifestyle. no matter where we train..... and our knowledge can always be passed on to the next generations or whomever may want to learn........ Thank you for your reply.

most here seem to have a few years in the game. i myself began this journey, life, back in 1980. trained 5 or 6 days a week 2 hours per day on three of those days of the week. did so for the first 6 years before joining the military. while some buddies and i would train in the PT sawdust pits, trading ideas and techniques, that was the first of my lapses in actual training at a dojo or a particular style... i did resume training after leaving the service for a few years in a different style. then came the second drifting away, after getting married and starting a career that required travel. once we got settled in halfway across the country i found and started training again. but this was only for a year before another move, again across country, took place. this was followed by a lapse of 5 years or so. afterwards i did start teaching for a few years for a local dojo, settled in and dove deeper into the philosophical side of life. looking back its cool to see the changes we go through and how we have matured or the directions taken. these humps, obstacles and lapses come and go, but the life always calls one back..... that last dojo went out due to the owners age/health and the timing of the pandemic.... but even before then i had built my own training area in the back yard, a full outdoor workout area with gym machines, free weights and multiple benches. and a full indoor dojo. just for myself and a few students i will occasionally take on......so, from an activity/sport in 1980 to a lifestyle today, interesting journey, is this just another lapse, so to speak, or is this finding the meaning of sorts. a coming to a new chapter or realization....... what are some of your stories? any lapses or times of drifting away?.....lessons in themselves of who you are?

no serious injuries in training. took a few good shots while sparring, breath knocked out and a bruise or two here and there a few times. tournaments were a little different, almost knocked out once, would've/could've been considered a TKO, had it not been just before the timer to end the match. that guy had to have three legs though... i never saw it coming and still, 45 years later, dont know where or what kind of kick that was...all i know was my brain was saying stay up and move and my legs were like "nope were done"....lol...and quite a few other dents and dings along the way on the tournament side.

Wow, that brings back memories.... not only as you stated with nerves, excitement and being overwhelmed. but of the later tournaments and the experiences gained and memories made of traveling the southeast circuit for the following coupleyears... that first tournament was the battle of atlanta in 1981, i was a blue belt and did manage to win a couple of point fights. so not too bad considering.....lol.......then a few local smaller tournaments , and then traveling with the group all over....those were fun, not just the events but the comradery and time spent on the beaches or in the cities afterwards or before the tournament itself....fun times indeed...... i made sure to make my last tournament before leaving for the military to be our studios / instructors yearly tournament, the Vitali Goldstar....that was the mid 80's and since returning from the military in the 90's i have probably only participated in a couple tournaments with another dojo/style since then... but those days with my first style will always be what i remember most fondly....

lol. yeah, probably a little..... what got me thinking of this topic as a whole, is recently on our little main street another personal training gym has opened up. not a mile from one that opened in 2019. both are along the lines of cross fit or other HIIT type gyms. so that, along with a workout anytime or planet fitness in every shopping center in the county. and they all stay pretty much packed out, we are in a fitness revolution of sorts, people are far more fitness conscience now than even 15 or so years ago, and i know that martial arts are a specific interest. but a lot of people do expect a level of fitness to be gotten from their participation. and with the multitudes of people going for the gyms there has to be a way to attract some of those to our sector... interesting comments/views so far. i know many of you come from a traditional background where as my core training was more sport oriented. so there is a difference as well as the differences in how each dojo or style is ran, a lot of variables at play. just wondering others thoughts or what they may or may not do that is different from the standard martial arts type everyday type runnings.... i attended an aikido dojo back in the early 2000's for a year or so and they always had a very large attendance / members. they didnt teach children below 16 and the classes were 2 hours each day. only two belts, white and black, (they had testing of course, just no colored belts) though you were allowed to wear the hakama after you were past the halfway point..... cool place, and they "broke" the rules of how most dojos run but still maintained a large membership....

and that is the problem with adult retention. one of the big puzzles we try to figure out is how to retain adults long term. if you ask most people why they want to learn "karate" the answer will be self defense and to get in shape, by teaching "karate" only, you are only giving them half of what they are looking for, and i guarantee they will leave for a gym within 2 or so years. compare your memberships with ANY gym in the area. you are lucky to have half the numbers of the worst gym. gyms are everywhere and on average are 50 bucks a month, la fitness (and many others, depending on location) you can get for 50-60 a month, bring a friend every visit, have a pool, gym, and classes of every kind, even a box it out class at most. this is the competition we face. we have to change what we offer to stay afloat. the thread "is martial arts dying?" is a good example, and the answer, honestly is "Yes".... karate has become a kindergarden or babysitting service in most peoples eyes. an afterschool activity for the kids. in that thread, and others, posters mention the poor teaching and lack of actual skills. that is the dying last breath of the martial arts. we are in the death throes and must admit there is a problem in order to fix it..... instead of changing to fit the times the martial arts instead became belt factories and soft. thinking to get or keep people they had to offer easy ways to the top..... and this is now the result. not trying to be harsh, just pointing out that for 100 bucks a month people would choose a crossfit or P.T gym over what we do. they dont want easy, they want results........ and we can give those results, we just have to see and make the changes necessary.... its not hard to incorporate a routine into the training and still stay martial arts based and focused.

i agree that class time, or the majority of time spent at the dojo is martial arts training, that is what its all about, after all. but i have found that adults do like the cardio and strength portions also. gives them some "gym time", so to speak. ive been in dojos that for the entire month before testing they will only focus on forms for the entire month. well, two steps, forms, testing agenda, etc.... so for those not testing its rather boring or not "fullfilling" to a degree. (though i dont think most are like that or to that degree, but if testing every three months like some do, that eats a lot of time away from class in the long haul).. this is OK for beginners classes but for advanced classes i would rather have them work on forms/kata in their own time, (of course there is help if needed) and have a HIIT type routine of some type twice a month. along with a sparring class once per week.. , Thanks for the reply.

Do you or your dojo, class etc... incorporate or use heavy bags,(not B.O.B or standing type but hanging heavy bags for timed drills), speed bags, dumb bells, or other non-martial arts type equipment in training. does your class veer away from just the M.A type subject and do a class of pure cardio or or perhaps "station" type training? if so, what type and how often, once a week? once a month? just occasionally?...... just wondering others thoughts.

if you have a commercial spot and dont wish to train under 16 or so, with the right space and set up, you could make up the difference by offering yoga, spin, aerobics or other classes. find someone who can teach those, or offer a "9 rounds" type program for those wanting a quick workout only.

cool, the only reason i mentioned this was you said this was a fairly recent occurrence. so just better to be on the safe side and rule out any health issues.

caffeine can raise blood sugar levels, as can fried chicken, which can make one sluggish or cause nausea or a "sick" feeling after eating,. while chicken itself is a protein the breading is usually flour based which is all carbs. and depending on what spices are used... you may want to have an a1c test next visit to the docs just to rule out anything medical..... probably nothing but helps to know for sure.

enforcement is hard to a degree, you are right in that you have to be very blatant, and over the top in how its done to bring about any type of interest of your business. too many loopholes or ways other types of activity play into it. there was a defense some time ago of how companies "sponsor" you tube channels with free products or gifts for good reviews and publicity. (which then the youtubers end up selling after the review, which is always good by the way. gotta keep on the sponsors good side ...lol). so much now plays into it that for the most part its no longer enforced unless the complaints are overwhelming enough.

Thanks everyone

dont worry or over think it. just go..... meet people, make friends. the rest will come naturally. try for at least three times per week. and practice what you can at home. even if its just slow forms practice to get the movement, kick, punch etc perfect... places teach differently so cant comment much on the training. some are better than others for beginners and have a better schedule and layout of classes, adult beginner classes, some even have an intermediate class once a week and then advanced classes. while some places just have an adult class with everyone lumped in together. while these can be confusing for some at first they can still be good dojos to learn from. you just have to go... you will learn it and get better as time progresses. dont be so hard on yourself or lose interest before you really give yourself a chance.

through out my time in the martial arts arts ive been to some dojos that did meditate and then those that did not. my core dojo, while self defense based, was also heavy on the sport side, it was the early 80's, a high time for the tournament scene. we did meditate there, to clear the mind and control the "jitters" so to speak. visualization was also heavy, especially to help forms competitions. it works tremendously. also helps for later learning and creating your own forms/kata......

you will get there. dedication is all it takes and it soon becomes a lifestyle. of course life changes and interests come and go but this is one that can and will follow you throughout, even when those times of other endeavors come along this is something you can always fall back into. ive been in this since 1980, moved from coast to coast. tried different styles and dojos along the way. built memories ill never forget and friendships and acquaintances that will always bring a smile to me. as the years pass you will learn more that it is as much about growth and life in general as it is about sport, or self defense. a continuing journey of realization and learning..... good luck on your journey. and may you too one day be passing on what you have learned along your path.

Hi guys, been a while....... i think for most getting their blackbelt is a sign of completion in this type of activity. it dousnt become a lifestyle so much for most, especially if the dojo is focused on mainly self defense or competition. for fitness purposes a gym is in most ways better and less expensive. it also depends on the style and the atmosphere of the dojo in question. is it run as a business (do students feel only like a number on the floor?) or does it have that "family" feel to it?. retention of students can be hard after B.B, people go on to other things or ways of staying in shape. teaching or bringing up 2nd or 3rd or higher levels is OK but in all honesty its just a way for the dojo to make money on testing. once someone reaches blackbelt they should know how to create their own forms, have the basics perfected and be able to perform more advanced techniques or movements on their own with a little thought...(if they cant then perhaps they were given the BB too soon. sometimes a diagrammed "plan" or curriculum isnt the best way to go... or at least it needs to be fluid) after blackbelt one thing that may retain students is pricing, be competitive with the local gyms, even it if means 25 dollars a month (if the biggest competition is workout anytime, planet fitness or such), for those who've earned their B.B... but building a comradery and friendships is key to retention, go out to dinner, (pizza huts used to be perfect for this...lol), the movies, have a bar b q once a month in the warm months, whatever it takes to build a "family" unit of friendships......

this right here, exactly what i was referring to about belt integrity...or lack there of...lol... so many places want to bring out their best students as show for visitors. but the truth is, if you want to know how good an instructor really is, dont look at their best, instead, look at their worst black belts / students. notice if all their students look and act as though they deserve their rank, or was it just given to them for participation...... the student is a reflection in a lot of ways of the instructor. their attitude, control, talent, dedication, etc can all be influenced by just how much time is given, respect shown, and honest interest taken in them. and it will be efective in helping that person grow..... of course im sure im preaching o the choire here with you , but maybe someone will gain something from this rambling.....lol.... great post sensei 8, you have a great day and continue on strongly Sir...

the only thing that seems "harsh" or pointless in some organizations testing programs is the fact that they are made to be more of an ego boost for the participants to feel good about themselves...lol... to the point of even possibly causing injury. (not speaking of your org. personally.) if someone is training daily, or at least 4 ties per week they are going to know their stuff and improve regardless of whether they test or not. someones level of knowledge, form, etc... is completely what they put into it.... a harsh test or painful test dousnt make them better....and is actually pointless, they either know their stuff or they dont, which is something the instructor should know long before they test. the test is strictly for show....it really means nothing. now the last sentence you wrote i do slightly disagree with. the integrity of rank...rank has no integrity. you even stated if they show improvement they pass...but are they as good as everyone else?...does everyone have to show an equil or the same ability to pass for the same rank?... when doing calisthenics, or warm up, does everyone have to be able to do the splits? or be able to kick as high or as powerful as the next guy? if not then rank has no integrity. it is not equil and therefore shows no true level of ability.....now integrity of the person is a different issue....lol...ive trained at dojo's who were strictly traditional or under an org. and ive trained at more laid back dojo's with no governing body but superb instruction, ive even trained at a couple dojo's with only two belts, white and black...still had tests, and once you reached what would be brown belt you were allowed to wear the hakama that was part of that style as a reward. but only stripes for everything inbetween. it worked out actually as good as a colored belt system if not better in a lot of ways....testing is for the ego of the students and a reward to keep them interested. that is also why some schools with blue belt programs and the likes has a high drop out rate once that level is reached, and why so many people quit after reaching their goal of blackbelt even..it is a double edged sword in a lot of ways, it sets a goal but dousnt add anything to retention for later.....rank is what you make it, nothing more, nothing less. there is nothing special, mystical, or anything else to it... a person can be a 10th dan and still be the worst person or have the worst attitude and manners in the room....lol... what we do is nothing but repetition, the moves can be learned by anyone willing to put in the time and effort, testing is just a formality.

does anyone pass the upper kyu tests???....lol....45 minutes of calisthenics and then a 5 mile run is another 35 minutes..(at a seven minute mile, which is a good steady pace for 5 miles) not many people could complete that unless they spend 5 days a week in class or combined with gym activity. along with the rest you state is really extreme and uncalled for IMO. not doubting you, i just dont see the need for such harsh or extreme measures. im not training warriors or pro fighters. i started out in a sport based style, fought the southern circuit for a few years. trained hard and constant. but never in a way that would cause unnecessary injury or risk that can be avoided....

the answer to that would be that most other styles do incorporate "kata" in some form, boxing has "shadow boxing" pad work with hand targets, foot work drills, etc.... wrestling has "duck walks/samurai walks" sit out drills, etc....the problem isnt kata but in how it is taught or its intensity, this is one of the things i was referring to with how most dojo' overlook the more intense training that other styles focus on. if you can train in a way that equils that of other styles then as stated above, the proof is on the floor and should be shown.

my answer would depend completely on the individual, are they active already?, do they posses physical strength, cardio, etc...?... if they are wanting to learn for self defense / fighting only, then why?.....if they feel like they need to learn because they are in a dangerous area, bullied, or so on an on then i would probably recommend boxing, or wrestling, both of which will build strength and cardio along with fighting / controlling an aggressor. physical fitness, cardio and strength are a major part of actual self defense that most dojo's dont focus on. dont matter how good you can hit or kick, if you cant go 5 or 10 minutes in an actual fight you WILL lose, (unless you get a really lucky shot in...lol), so my answer would be individual specific as far as for self defense only or as the main reason of interest. learning the mechanics of karate, punches, kicks, blocks..is just repetition, getting oneself actually fit, strong, well balanced, etc... is a change of lifestyle that only the dedicated will continue to follow, so for a newbie it is sometimes easier if that is combined in a more useful program that unfortunately most dojo's dont incorporate where as a boxing gym does.

im going to say something that is not going to be popular with some, but requiring proof of the vaccination is a business killer. most businesses that started to require vax have felt a huge loss because of it, the theatre business possibly wont pull out of the shutdown and panic that it caused. (thats why the sudden rush and emergence of channels such as paramount plus, disney plus etc... it is to take the place of theatres and that loss of revenue for the motion picture industry).... the restaurants that tried or are trying to check vax status are seeing a loss of patronage and profit. gyms were hurt badly by the shutdown as well as personal trainers, to require proof of vax and lose half your customers is not going to work in the long run. and with the vax, what if someone decides to stop getting it, do you kick them out? break the contract if there is one? what if someone cant be vaxed or had a bad reaction?, do refuse them service? over time people will slow down with this just as most people dont get the flu vax. it is already happening, i know many who got the first vax but dont plan on getting more. what then? as far as whether anyone makes that choice is up to the individual, but i would not train at any place that would force it on anyone. Edited to add: after looking at the U.S population vaxxed numbers, 78%of the population has had the initial shot, 66%percent have had the second and only 33% have had the booster..so if a business actually requires that you be current, then you have lost 66% of viable customers already

and the militaries that have people teaching with no combat experience tend to be trash at war when they finally get a taste of it….there’s a pretty good example of that going on right now…I’ve never seen a boxing coach who didn’t have at least a few fights/smokers on their record. How successful are those coaches? angelo dundee never fought, he was ali's coach terry edwards never fought, yet was an excellent coach cus demato, tysons coach, 0-2 record there are many others who either never fought or werent very good, but knew the mechanics of fighting at a higher level than most actual fighters. as far as the military is concerned, most of the leaders come from officer candidate school and other leadership courses/schools within the military. before the middle eastern conflicts the US military had reached a point where most leaders had not seen any combat, yet we were still one of the greatest militaries in the world. even now there are many, many, leaders within our own units who have not seen war. yet are fully capable of leading and teaching the units they command. How many other great fighters did they "produce?" When you get into the professional levels of competition, it's hard to tell which coaches are good, and which ones are made to look good by the talent of their athletes. this is true, would Ali have been as good or better with a different coach?, would Tyson?. that is something we may never know. every coach brings something different to the table. sometimes something so simple that another may not bring that may make all the difference in the world to that one fighter as an individual. i heard someone quote a statement from an old "master" once that most never really consider fully. but have seen it come to be a gamechanger more than once through my years in this game. the quote is, "move, just move. if you stop your dead", everyone always wants to break down the movements of Kata, or what is a block and what is a punch, or how do you transition from this to this, etc.... but ive seen point fighters and sport karate fighters win real fights far more often than someone who gets caught up in all the technical stuff, why? because they knew how to move. how to keep the opponent off balance and on the defense... this isnt rocket science guys, the ones who can relax and see what is in front of them and react accordingly are the ones who will be ahead of the game, those who freeze, become stagnant or panic will always be behind and playing catch-up., good coaches, teachers, instructors in any field who can teach that and make their students see the big picture are always the ones who have a higher success rate. and how does one get past the freeze reaction if it’s their natural reaction? There’s really only one way, and even that isn’t guaranteed.practice, and then practice more..... spar, and then spar more..... why do you study karate? how often do you attend class? ive seen some people say "im just not good at this, yet they only go to class twice a week. 2 hours per week and then they wonder why they arent getting good or learning faster. you get what you put into anything in life. sometimes to get better or learn something you have to force yourself out of your comfort zone. blaming the instructor, (in anything) will not help if you are not trusting them or giving 100% yourself. not being able to leave that comfort zone or being afraid is on the student. im saying that in regards to students who want to learn self defense but arent willing to spar or are afraid to, ive seen that with multiple students through the years. the truth is, that if you want to learn to defend yourself you had better at some point know how it feels to get hit in the face...lol...not trying to be harsh or sound mean, but its self defense you are learning. if and when it comes down to using it you should be prepared to be hurt and know how it feels to work through it. theres a Mike tyson quote that says "everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face". that was before his fight with Holyfield, he went on to say when people get hit they freeze. unfortunatley for Tyson, holyfield knew what it was like to get hit and didnt freeze...lol... when i was younger before my enlistment i trained/taught 3 days a week for a minimum of 7 hours a week.3 days a week should be the minimum for anyone seeking anything more than just an exercise class. i wrestled through junior high and highschool while also going to the dojo 5 days a week and fighting on the sport circuit when ever possible. the wrestling complimented the karate as far as cardio and balance while the karate complemented wrestling in getting hit and "seeing" body posture and movements. as well as other ways to helping each other. by the way, i wasnt meaning "you" in particular in my previous posts examples, sorry if it seemed that way and i apologize if it may have offended you or made you feel I was putting you on the spot. sorry. wasnt meant that way. my point was that anyone should ask themselves what it is they want out of whatever activity or path they are on, and then ask themselves are they really giving the activity their utmost, their full attention, 100% or are they just taking the easy route and then complaining about the results. you would be surprised at how often that is the case. no matter how good an instructor is or how good a style is, how good a student becomes will depend on how good that student wants to become and how much effort and dedication they put into it. if someone is wanting to learn real self defense they have to be all in in order to get pass that freezing up stage. someone can take all the classes and read every book out there but if they have never sparred or been hit they will still be a beginner in that first fight. and that is with anything, just using self defense cause thats where we are. but as another example, when younger and into my early twenties i was terrified of public speaking, or being "in the spotlight" if you will. performing kata in tournaments helped bring me out a little and then as an adult i went into sales after leaving the military. i had to force myself out of my comfort zone and learn to give seminars and demonstrations, as well as how to approach and carry a conversation with new clients and managers. the only way to get passed the freeze up in any situation is to practice and overcome that fear.

and the militaries that have people teaching with no combat experience tend to be trash at war when they finally get a taste of it….there’s a pretty good example of that going on right now…I’ve never seen a boxing coach who didn’t have at least a few fights/smokers on their record. How successful are those coaches? angelo dundee never fought, he was ali's coach terry edwards never fought, yet was an excellent coach cus demato, tysons coach, 0-2 record there are many others who either never fought or werent very good, but knew the mechanics of fighting at a higher level than most actual fighters. as far as the military is concerned, most of the leaders come from officer candidate school and other leadership courses/schools within the military. before the middle eastern conflicts the US military had reached a point where most leaders had not seen any combat, yet we were still one of the greatest militaries in the world. even now there are many, many, leaders within our own units who have not seen war. yet are fully capable of leading and teaching the units they command. How many other great fighters did they "produce?" When you get into the professional levels of competition, it's hard to tell which coaches are good, and which ones are made to look good by the talent of their athletes. this is true, would Ali have been as good or better with a different coach?, would Tyson?. that is something we may never know. every coach brings something different to the table. sometimes something so simple that another may not bring that may make all the difference in the world to that one fighter as an individual. i heard someone quote a statement from an old "master" once that most never really consider fully. but have seen it come to be a gamechanger more than once through my years in this game. the quote is, "move, just move. if you stop your dead", everyone always wants to break down the movements of Kata, or what is a block and what is a punch, or how do you transition from this to this, etc.... but ive seen point fighters and sport karate fighters win real fights far more often than someone who gets caught up in all the technical stuff, why? because they knew how to move. how to keep the opponent off balance and on the defense... this isnt rocket science guys, the ones who can relax and see what is in front of them and react accordingly are the ones who will be ahead of the game, those who freeze, become stagnant or panic will always be behind and playing catch-up., good coaches, teachers, instructors in any field who can teach that and make their students see the big picture are always the ones who have a higher success rate. and how does one get past the freeze reaction if it’s their natural reaction? There’s really only one way, and even that isn’t guaranteed.practice, and then practice more..... spar, and then spar more..... why do you study karate? how often do you attend class? ive seen some people say "im just not good at this, yet they only go to class twice a week. 2 hours per week and then they wonder why they arent getting good or learning faster. you get what you put into anything in life. sometimes to get better or learn something you have to force yourself out of your comfort zone. blaming the instructor, (in anything) will not help if you are not trusting them or giving 100% yourself. not being able to leave that comfort zone or being afraid is on the student. im saying that in regards to students who want to learn self defense but arent willing to spar or are afraid to, ive seen that with multiple students through the years. the truth is, that if you want to learn to defend yourself you had better at some point know how it feels to get hit in the face...lol...not trying to be harsh or sound mean, but its self defense you are learning. if and when it comes down to using it you should be prepared to be hurt and know how it feels to work through it. theres a Mike tyson quote that says "everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face". that was before his fight with Holyfield, he went on to say when people get hit they freeze. unfortunatley for Tyson, holyfield knew what it was like to get hit and didnt freeze...lol...