Wastelander

I agree that it is largely under-trained in karate, but there are still many who incorporate it. My personal belief, and I could be wrong--I certainly don't have documentation to back it up--is that martial arts developed on Okinawa much the same way they did in ancient Greece. What I mean by that is that they fought each other with whatever grappling and striking skills they knew and as those skills got more refined over time they were split into separate arts (this is how boxing and wrestling we created, as I understand it) and only a few people continued to incorporate both concepts in full while most chose to favor one over the other. This is how tegumi and te came about (again, this is just my belief) as they are separate striking and grappling arts. I feel that over time the practitioners of te, as they began incorporating concepts and techniques from Chinese arts, started to train grappling concepts more and more until the cycle started over again and some people started going the way of grappling-only or striking-only training with a little dabbling between the two. It seems to me that this cycle just keeps going because people tend to have a preference and will typically practice and teach to their preferences. All that is just my belief based on other arts and trends, but I could most certainly be wrong. I, admittedly, don't know enough about the origins of tegumi and te prior to the transition between te and Todi to be certain, nor do I have any documentation to prove my point.

I have learned two versions of Naihanchi Sho/Shodan--one from Shuri-Ryu and one from Shorin-Ryu--and while Shuri-Ryu does have versions of the other two they are considered "black belt kata" and taught at Shodan and Nidan ranks which I have not reached, so I only know the Shorin-Ryu versions of the second and third Naihanchi kata. My views on this kata come from these two styles of karate, tempered with my own study, such as it is at my level. I won't go into a ton of detail--I don't have a ton, after all, since I've only been training for 5 years--but I'll go over some of the staples of Naihanchi as I see it. Stance Kiba-dachi in Shuri-Ryu is very low, which turns Naihanchi into a serious exercise in leg conditioning, but this is obviously not a practical position to be in from a bunkai perspective. I feel that this helped my leg strength, my leg flexibility, my balance and my understanding of how to drop my weight. When I transitioned to Shorin-Ryu, however, the kata uses a Motobu-style Naihanchi-dachi/kiba-dachi that is much more natural. What I feel I've gained from this is a better physical understanding of how to move, generate power and root myself to the ground. Between the two I feel most comfortable in the more natural stance but I feel that without the low kiba-dachi-version of Shuri-Ryu my leg conditioning, balance and weight dropping would not be nearly as good, so I feel there is value in running it both ways, not just one or the other. Leg Techniques Naihanchi's leg techniques are probably the most often "played with" when it comes to bunkai, as far as I've experienced. It seems that many people see Naihanchi as a linear kata with your back against the wall and neglect the smaller movements of the stances, as well as the concept of entering to attack your opponent with one side forward. The steps where you cross one foot over the other can be knee strikes, stomps or both, but to use them as just a step is an unsound concept unless you intend to spin around, which I have also seen done as another way of practicing Naihanchi. The sweeps and use of your knees to off-balance your opponent by pressing against their legs are probably the most valuable leg techniques for me, personally, because I feel that the judo training I have done compliments these techniques well, and I use them often in free sparring and in self defense drills. That said, I have also seen these used as low side-kicks or stomp-kicks, as well as simply pulling your foot up out of the way of a kick or stomp being thrown at you. I feel that these can also be knee strikes and training to check leg kicks and other strikes to the thigh, however--I see that application especially with the knee-raise in Naihanchi Nidan. Hand Techniques I don't think that it is a coincidence that Naihanchi Shodan starts with a fairly long hand technique (the open-handed block, excluding the yoi position) and ends with a fairly long technique (the double-punch) but all of the techniques in between are close-quarters-style strikes, blocks, deflections and grappling techniques. To me, this signifies covering distance, engaging someone in a very close situation and then breaking free of the engagement. That said, I do not feel that this is the only way to use these techniques. I find that the hand techniques of all three Naihanchi kata are very efficient for striking and grappling close to your opponent and compliment the stancing and leg techniques very well. In other words, the kata are very well put together and I feel that they build on one another. A lot of people feel that there is very little of value in Naihanchi Sandan but I think that it introduces the idea of using the techniques from the first two Naihanchi kata in even shorter spaces, in addition to adding the concept of moving off-line of an attack and I like the added grappling concepts of the wrapping arm. Grappling I love grappling and I love grappling in karate, so this is a great aspect of Naihanchi both from a practicality perspective and an entertainment perspective. The joint locks, the sweeps, the tie-ups/clinching, the grip-breaking, it's all great and most people agree on it being in the kata. The part that gets people on shaky ground is exactly the idea that Naihanchi contains ground-fighting techniques (forgive the pun). I can see where people get this idea--the stance is reminiscent of having someone in your guard, the steps where your feet cross are similar to half-guard and many of the grappling techniques used standing can be applied just as well or better from the ground. All that said, I believe that the grappling concepts in Naihanchi were intended to be used from a standing position, but I don't see anything wrong with practicing them on the ground, either. tl;dr - Naihanchi is awesome and deceptively complex

Matsubayashi is Shoshin Nagamine's version of Shorin Ryu and what you describe sounds pretty identical. Why don't we start another thread on Naihanchi Sho (it is much more universal than the other to Naihanchi katas)? Indeed, so I don't suspect that much of what I know from the Pinan kata will vary from what you know. Although I do always like talking about Naihanchi, I don't think we necessarily need a separate topic for Naihanchi--that would just start filling up the forum if we did a new topic for every kata we want to discuss. I should add that I think the idea of cataloging all of the different applications that people can think of is interesting, just so long as we aren't seeking one, single application for every movement.

Well, in the interest of answering your question as best I can now that we have a more specific technique to discuss I'll go ahead and put in what I know. In Shuri-Ryu we did not practice the Pinan kata at all, so I only have the Shorin-Ryu (Shorinkan) version to go off of. We also perform the last four movements in Pinan Nidan as gedan shuto uke in neko ashi dachi, and we usually use them as deflecting and catching a kick, then twisting the ankle to dislocate it or cause the attacker to fall to avoid the dislocation. My instructor also has us throw a kick to the leg or groin because neko ashi dachi easily facilitates the use of a front leg kick and "you might as well since you have his groin opened up" and he is a big proponent of kicking low while entering. If we were to get into Naihanchi I could go a little further because I have learned Naihanchi Sho in both Shuri-Ryu and Shorin-Ryu.

I understand what you are trying to do and I know you're getting irritated by people not replying in the way you want, but the concept is flawed--many of the techniques in kata were intended to be used in multiple ways so to specify that "this is the one and only way to use that technique from that kata" isn't going to work. Take the low block/high block combinations at the end of Pinan Shodan, for example--the very same movements can be used to: Block a kick, break someone's grip on your wrist, strike someone in the groin or bladder, dislocate someone's elbow, catch a kick and break the ankle, or throw someone (depending on the move prior, of course) and then you can follow that up by blocking a punch, breaking someone's grip on your shirt, striking with the forearm/elbow, or break someone's grip on your wrist from behind you--and those are just the examples I can think of off the top of my head as a kyu-ranked student. In other words--to say that there is only one application for a given movement is to cut out a very large section of your art and would be similar to saying that there is only one way to remove a bottle cap. All that said, it is possible to form "standard bunkai" to a degree, but that is usually reserved for dojo curriculum to make it easier to teach and grade people. My dojo back in Illinois, for example, has standard bunkai for every kata that everyone has to know, but it is very base level bunkai. A block is a block, a kick is a kick, a punch is a punch, a throw is a throw. It isn't until you've been training for a couple years that you start getting introduced to other ways of using the very same or very similar movements so that you can apply different bunkai. This is a good way to teach beginners solid, standard applications for basic techniques but it doesn't do much for the more advanced students. If you are wanting to come up with a list of standard applications then I think the only way for you to really do that is to do the most basic level application for each technique but even then there are some techniques that will be open to interpretation. I don't think it's going to be very easy for you to get a general consensus from people on one use for each technique because different people are going to apply it differently, so the closest you will get is the "a block is a block, a strike is a strike" method.

I live somewhere warm and it hasn't hampered me any. Then again, I've modified my grips on my go-to throws to not require clothing

I'm pretty sure I would stick with Shorin-Ryu and Judo. I've considered trying an amateur fight with just the training I have (Shuri-Ryu basics, ongoing Shorin-Ryu training, Judo and a couple JJJ techniques) but I haven't committed to it as of yet.

I saw this posted on another forum last night. As someone born and raised in Illinois, I have to say that I agree with MasterPain on all counts, including the "thoughts not agreeable with forum rules" portion.

I tend to find that when I spar with my strong side forward I have two problems--primarily I get drilled in the liver, which is not fun at all. The other weakness is that it leaves me very open to my opponent's strong-side strikes, but I tend to do well enough defending that unless I'm sparring my Sensei or another blackbelt of similar experience to him.

I switch back and forth, but I tend to favor strong-side forward (right side, for me). My right hand is faster than my left and, even though I train both sides, it is also stronger than my left. This means that I have a seriously mean jab/backfist/ridgehand/lead hook and I have more body weight available to put into my weaker, slower hand to make up for its deficiencies. So I guess I'm saying that yes, I do follow the same principle that Bruce Lee laid out--I just don't do it all the time. Sometimes I like to have the most powerful punch possible, and that's going to be weak-side forward.

In most schools you would both be receiving punishment because, as JusticeZero said, they don't want to think about these things very hard. Hopefully it was caught on video, but if not then you definitely need to at least have your parents on your side. Good on you for defending yourself.

I have heard that some people get a little irritated if you ask for their credentials over the phone, but I've never experienced it, personally. My instructor will gladly tell you who taught him and what his training history is, and that has been the case with all my instructors so I wouldn't think any legitimate instructor would withhold that information.

Your styles listed are heavy with grappling, but it sounds like you're getting a karate-style gi--why not get a judo or BJJ-style gi? That said, either one would be a fine brand, although I think Ronin may come out cheaper.

I would recommend Judo (heck, there is already a branch of Kyokushin that combines the two) because of its ability to teach you about grips (both on clothing and the body), body movement, takedown defense and throws. Just make sure that the dojo also trains newaza (groundwork) on a regular basis because otherwise you're only getting half the art. What tallgeese says about complimenting a standing art with a standing art is half-correct (and I mean no offense, tallgeese), and I personally believe that the groundwork taught in Judo (and I will admit that a great many Judo dojo do not teach enough groundwork, unfortunately) is plenty for self defense--it is simple and effective, particularly if you have an instructor who doesn't mind teaching the techniques that have been removed from Judo competition that are still effective (neck cranking techniques and leg locks, primarily). That said, there is some pretty cool stuff the BJJ world has come up with that you would be missing out on, and you would certainly become a better groundwork technician in BJJ, but I feel that most BJJ schools are the opposite of many Judo schools--too much groundwork and not enough standing grappling and throws/sweeps.

It sounds like your Systema instructor sticks to realism and as long as you make it clear that you want realistic training he will probably give that to you--just because you are training in an art that contains "mystical nonsense" in some branches doesn't mean you have to believe it or practice it. Karate includes concepts of ki meridians and I don't believe in that beyond the basics of how nerves work, and it doesn't change the fact that I learn how to defend myself effectively.

Does your instructor have a website? Not the bounce gym one, but one specifically for his Systema classes? I find Systema to be interesting and it has some useful and interesting concepts, but sometimes it looks like sloppy Jujutsu/Judo/Sambo and Karate techniques. I'm glad you like it and I'm interested to hear how it goes (I know that Steve Wildash's blog on his Systema training shows some good stuff, so its out there to be found) and I would also like to see videos if your instructor has any.

In general, this is the best answer possible. If society were to collapse so completely as to make you justified in fighting the police then you would still be out-manned and out-gunned unless you happen to have a large gun collection and lots of friends and you all train group combat tactics together.

Kata, to me, is a blueprint. On the surface it teaches you how to perform the techniques of your style--or how to build a house, to follow my analogy. The finer points, however, are something that must be learned along the way or the blueprint makes no sense (bunkai to kata).

Exactly--I said "anything but wine is out" meaning that any alcoholic beverages that aren't wine have very little value to you, health wise, and any alcohol in excess is bad. I also totally agree with the rest of the above post.

The only way to find your limit is to reach it, really. For muscular endurance I would say you can do pushups until your arms won't move anymore and that's the limit of pushups you can do, and you can do situps until your abs won't clench anymore and that's the limit of situps you can do, and you can do squats until your legs give out and that's the limit of squats you can do. How you apply that knowledge to your training is up to you. As far as avoiding injury, your muscles will save you from yourself. Your muscles will seize up and give out when they have reached their safe limit--you can push past this but you are going to be doing more damage to your muscles than is healthy. Stretching of muscles and tendons is a completely different matter. To increase upper body and punching strength, do pushups (fast ones), rotational abdominal exercises, run up stairs and punch a heavy bag. STOP SMOKING, make your diet rich in protein, fruits and veggies (carbs are okay, but don't go overboard), don't drink alcoholic beverages without benefits (basically anything but wine is out) and do not drink more than a glass a day.

This is typically the method I use if anyone catches my kicks (although that doesn't happen too often, thankfully!) and it helps me get into clinching range where I can throw people, so I rather like it when that happens

*Do you find the 270 degree turn easy/difficult for you to learn? --It isn't that it is difficult to learn, but it is certainly difficult to get it right. Controlling your body in such a turn can be difficult and changes depending on how you are using the turn. *Do you consider the 270 degree turn an effective/ineffective tool in the martial arts? --Depends on how you see it being used. I see it, typically, as a way to throw someone, redirect an attack, control an opponent or evade an attack. In those situations I find it useful. *Do you consider the 270 degree turn an effective/ineffective tool only used in Kata? --This question seems to be a combination of the prior question and the following question, so see those answers. *Do you think that the only time you’ll ever use the 270 degree turn is in Kata? --I regularly use 270 degree turns in sparring and self defense drills. When I throw someone I have to turn my body as far as possible--yes, the throw initiates at about 180 degrees, but my head keeps turning at least 270, which forces my body to follow. When I apply a joint lock to control an opponent to the ground, I sometimes do not need to turn 270 but sometimes I do, and sometimes even further, but the idea is the same. I also use a 270 degree turn in conjunction with dropping my body, to break free of striking exchanges in sparring. Certainly there are more uses for the turn but at this point in my training, those are my uses for it.

For working target placement it works fine, but it is nothing like hitting a human body OR a heavy bag--it doesn't move like a human body, despite being shaped like one, and the "skin" on it tends to stick to your skin when you punch it, which gets pretty uncomfortable. Also, the body is much firmer than a human body and the head moves around quite a bit but isn't as hard as a human head.

I honestly think that the question you ask is one that does not have a clear answer. Karate is an empty-handed fighting art of Okinawan origin, but I think that is the closest to a definition that you will find. I think that the name has very little to do with effectiveness, cohesiveness or passed-down curriculum--all of those things are going to be different between different organizations, styles, schools and instructors.

Demonstrating techniques and randori, typically. Many Judo dojo have test curriculum and you can ask what techniques they will focus on for your test, but others focus primarily on randori and shiai--I know my last Judo instructor based promotions almost solely on how you do in competition.