Wastelander

I'll admit right away that I haven't read this entire thread, but I am seeing the "competition vs. self-defense" argument and so I thought I would jump in here. Can arts that actively compete be useful for self-defense? Yes. Can arts that do not compete and focus on self-defense be useful for competition? Yes. Does competing prove that your art will work for self-defense? Not necessarily. What matters isn't so much the content (it does need to be effective content, but most martial arts do contain similar content that has been proven effective over time) but the method of training. At my old dojo we also had Haganah classes (very similar to Krav, but more controversial) and they were actively resisting each other in practice. If they were practicing on someone who stops as soon as you start to defend then it wouldn't be very useful for self-defense, now would it? Those guys didn't compete, either, but having trained with them I can pretty safely say that they could fend off an attack pretty well. That said, I have trained Judo in two different dojos with different points of view on the art. My first dojo taught 50% tachiwaza (standing techniques) and 50% newaza (groundwork), although really it probably ended up being more like 35% tachiwaza and 65% newaza. That is because the instructor wanted us to know what to do in a grappling situation whether we were standing or on the ground and how to transition between the two. That is a self defense concept more than a competition concept--we very rarely ever competed outside of our own dojo tournaments (we had three affiliated dojos and twice a year they would hold a tournament together). My second dojo taught tachiwaza almost exclusively (we worked two classes of groundwork in the two years I was there) because that's what wins competitions, and we did the throws with a lot more commitment than I ever did at the first dojo because that would make sure we threw a resisting opponent. That all works fine on tatami mats in a competition but do you know how many times the person throwing would end up hitting their head on the floor? That doesn't work out very well for you in a self defense situation. Sure, fighting with the adrenaline rush and stress you experience in a Judo competition is definitely going to give you an advantage in self defense, but it still doesn't do you a whole lot of good if you smash your own head on the ground when you throw the guy who grabs you. tl;dr - Competition can be helpful and teach you to fight under stress, but it isn't the be-all-end-all method of determining effectiveness--how you train is more important than what you train and whether you compete. At least, that's my take on it.

Thanks for the input, Jim. I'm not completely untrained on the ground, so I am familiar with leglocks (straight leglocks are allowed, but twisting leglocks are only allowed in "absolute" matches) and I know not to go belly-down, in general (I've never been a staller in my Judo competitions when it comes to groundwork). I appreciate the advanced warning that choking against the face and grinding crossfacing is allowed--I've tapped out more in practice from chokes crushing my jaw than from chokes on my neck.

Hello everyone, I am planning on competing in a no-gi grappling competition this Saturday to see how well I can adapt my Judo to use without the gi. The tournament will mostly consist of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioners, so I'm just curious to hear if there is anything I should expect aside from them shooting for single- and double-leg takedowns and doing that irritating guard-pull from standing. I'm still not sure whether I should enter in the Beginner division or Intermediate division (I'm assuming they have these, but all that's listed on the website is weight divisions so it may be a non-issue) because I've had about 4 years of Judo training and 2 of those years had a heavier focus on groundwork, but none of that necessarily equates to BJJ experience. Any tips, tricks, or advice on what I can expect? Thanks!

I doubt growing domestically would bring hemp prices down. Like many things, I'd bet it would be cheaper to produce overseas, despite transportation costs, but I definitely agree that increased volume would bring down costs. One advantage to hemp, as I understand it, is that hemp is more "green" than cotton, and importing is less "green" than buying locally, so I'm sure "green" customers would prefer domestic crops. I didn't know that growing hemp commercially was prohibited in the US. As I understand it, you cannot get high off the hemp plants used for textiles. The funny thing is that I'm in California and medical marijuana here is quasi-legal. The state says it is; the federal government says it's not. Thanks for the info! You are correct--you can't get high off of textile hemp because it has less than .01% THC content. Apparently that's enough for Congress to say that people can't grow it, and in fact you can't even buy the seeds (which are edible and highly nutritious) unless they are sterilized first. As for domestically grown hemp not bringing down costs, I suppose that is true in the sense that it would cost more to harvest because employees get paid better here, but I still think the lack of shipping and the increase in stock would at least make a small dent in it. You're definitely right about it being more "green" than cotton because it doesn't need much in the way of chemical assistance to grow (herbicides and pesticides), and if you don't bleach it white like they tend to do with cotton you are keeping that chemical out of the equation as well. Besides, bleach weakens natural fibers (including hemp) so I'm not all that big on bleaching stuff that I want to last

Unfortunately, the attitude is part of school wrestling. Then again, intimidation is part of the game, and confidence in hard earned ability is better than low self esteem due to lack of effort. Since I only wrestled for about a month and a half in school (the coach always made me practice with guys two years older and 20+ pounds heavier than me, so I got hurt a lot and never got to learn anything) I missed out on that, beyond seeing the attitudes of the overwhelming majority of the male population of my school. Personally, I stick with the "emotionless" look for intimidation purposes--the strutting and showboating just seem stupid to me.

I can't see the video because I'm at work, but I'm going to assume it's the mohawk-headed wrestling kid? He has great technique, and I saw some good Judo-style throws, but he has one heck of an attitude. I saw some other videos on YouTube and it kind of seems like his parents are grooming him to have that cocky tough-guy attitude already and he's only 8.

Interesting. If you don't mind my asking, can I find info on your gi on the web somewhere? I'm not familiar with hemp gis. My karate gi is custom made by an independent clothier (no website--he works off of Etsy, and he doesn't have any images up of the few gi's he has done in the past) but my grappling gi (I use it for judo and jujutsu) is hemp and made by Datsusara MMA (https://www.dsmma.com). Hemp fiber is four times stronger than cotton fiber, it is antimicrobial (especially beneficial for grapplers), it wicks moisture better than cotton, and it's more comfortable than cotton (in my opinion). Right now it is still illegal to grow textile hemp commercially in the United States, so it costs more than cotton right now because it has to be imported, but once cotton prices start going up I feel that things will even out. If we can get people who don't smoke marijuana or talk like the guys from "Dude, Where's My Car?" to lobby for commercial hemp farming in America then we could cut out the import costs, as well. I know I sound like an advertisement, but I swear I'm not--it just bothered me a lot when I found out about the benefits of hemp from someone who wasn't a "pothead" and looked up the history to find that it is a superior product that even some of the founding fathers of our country grew, but we threw it by the wayside.

I've known about this whole thing since summer of last year, but my new gi is made from hemp so I don't have a problem with the cotton shortage. Cotton was artificially bolstered as a cash crop to push out hemp, anyway, since hemp is a much better textile source but cotton was "the next big thing" back in the 1700's and somehow it stuck.

Datsusara MMA (DSMMA) makes some pretty awesome gear bags, so you may want to check them out.

Those are fairly close to the WTSDA rules. Except they don't permit sweeps or hand techniques to the head or groin kicks. Stop-point sparring is really absurd to me, which is why I doubt I'll bother competing. Striking area is extremely limited, and contact is barely there, so what can you learn? In fact, I heard one of our younger "adult" guys tapped an opponent at his last tournament, and the opponent dropped and forfeited the match. Here I thought over-acting was just for soccer What you learn from point fighting, largely, is timing, distance and control and the ability to counter-attack. Remember, too, that if you develop the ability to stop a punch right as it touches someone then you also have the ability to stop it 6 inches into them--control works both to help you keep from hurting yourself and others and it also helps you apply techniques full power later.

In my dojo we have two types of sparring--regular sparring and tournament sparring. In tournaments sparring we are working with USKA point fighting rules, but our tournament sparring classes are generally all kids and young teenagers except for those of us who help by sparring them. Our regular sparring allows you to target the whole body and we go about 50% but sometimes ramp up as we fight, and sweeping, throwing, submissions and groundwork are all allowed so if the fight goes to the ground you just keep going. We don't really throw elbows because we would rather not gash each other up or rupture an eye by accident during sparring, but it isn't prohibited, and kicks to the groin are generally done lighter just to be nice. Overall, I think what we have is a good mix and when we ramp up to full-contact things get pretty interesting. I think that as long as each partner can agree on the level of contact then you have the chance to learn a lot, and there is a place for light, medium and full contact sparring if you know what to look for from them.

Well, I suppose we could try. Point Sparring (Karate, Shuri-Ryu): 2 minute duration 3 points to win Time/fighting is stopped to announce each point No striking below the belt except for groin-kicks In order for a technique to be counted as a point it must touch the body and be capable of extending far enough to deliver a full-force strike, though full-force striking is not permitted Strikes with the lead hand must be circular (backfist, ridgehand, etc.) Striking to the face is allowed, but no contact with the face may be made Sweeps are allowed but must be controlled Wild swinging and turning your back on your opponent will result in warnings, followed by point deductions I can't really give you an overview of my Shorin-Ryu sparring because the rules during my sparring classes consist pretty much of "don't injure your opponent" and that's about it.

Most often they are used by competitors for tournaments because they make your stances look lower and they flop around more so you look like you are torquing your hips more than you are. I stick with a medium length belt, myself--on the long-side of Judo-legal length--just as a personal preference. I don't like how the super-short Judo, Jujutsu and BJJ belts look and I don't need to use a belt to make me look better in competition. Some people do just like a longer belt, though, so there is that. ETA: This does not apply to children--they are likely using either hand-me-down belts or belts for them to grow into

There is also a style called "Tsunami-Ryu" that was created by a guy with credentials from a style I haven't heard of and it looks like a miserable excuse for a "martial art" but this at least appears to have some legitimacy to it. That said, that kid in the first video looks like he is trying to run part of Bassai Dai without any power, focus or control. Unless he is a special needs student then someone should have told him not to compete, and if his instructor taught him to do it that way then there is a serious problem.

Congratulations! I actually worked grappling with a couple guys after class last night and was able to submit a blackbelt a couple times, but the brown belt I rolled with is a lot heavier than me and with his wrestling background he kept all of his weight on me and I just couldn't do anything with it--it'll take more practice . To be fair, though, that was all groundwork last night.

Different groups will teach you different kata at different times, but you will probably either learn Fukyugata (Fukyu no kata), which some groups have just one of and some have multiples. If you don't get taught that next it's probably going to either be Pinan Shodan or Naihanchi Shodan.

Different Shorin-Ryu organizations do the belt ranks differently and then some dojos will add belt ranks in between either to keep younger students engaged (as is the case with my dojo--the adults only have the standard Shorinkan ranks) or to make more money. I don't agree with your assessment of Shorin-Ryu being "heavyweight karate" simply because it does not strike me as being a style that is reliant on power, weight or reach. Shorin-Ryu is all about speed and movement, at least how my instructor teaches it, which is something that can be developed by just about any body type. I happen to be tall and have a long reach, but my instructor is quite a bit shorter than me and we have quite a few "average-sized" people in the dojo who are quite good. In addition, Chibana Sensei (founder of Shorin-Ryu) was quite small, as I've been made to understand it. I do agree, however, that it is a well rounded, practical art that teaches good self defense. If you want your classes to be more intense or include more sparring then you should talk to your instructor--my dojo has a separate sparring class, but the regular classes are plenty intense.

The chaos outside is NOT a problem I would be dealing with--I would be staying in my home with my family and guns. Going anywhere is always dangerous and I carry a knife, and sometimes my handgun (perfectly legal here) but if there was an event of civil unrest I would not be going anywhere at all.

This is an interesting breakdown. You make some good, valid points here. A few things to keep in mind when looking at the history of karate and how it has influenced the grappling found in karate. Firstly, despite how karate was once told to be the art of farmers training in secret to resist the Japanese, that's not really the story. Research and accounts of the people who trained with the earliest master put it as a fighting art of body guards to a king, who often served as local constabulary. If you are seeking to protect one individual, or possibly facing more than one, you cannot afford to be tangled up with a single assailant. Early Okinawan martial influences tended to come from China, not Japan. As such, when an upper class Okinawan with good martial talent was finishing his training, he often traveled to China to broaden his horizons as it were. It was seen as a sort of finishing school for Okinawan martial artists. The cultural exchange among the Okinawan elites would have a large number of Chinese diplomats in court as well and they often brought martial training with them. With that Chinese influence, you will see their grappling styles as well. It tended to be more about standing and manipulating than getting on the ground and being tied up. Chinese thought on ground grappling seems, from what research I've seen, and what I've seen of grappling styles out of China focuses on staying standing and putting the other person on the ground or manipulating their body into a better position to strike. Very much what is seen in karate grappling. Lastly, the Okinawan people had a completely separate native grappling art. Much like the difference in western Boxing and Wrestling. With that grappling system in place, karate practitioners had, or at least saw, little need to emphasize the grappling in their systems. Especially putting people on the ground and following them down. Not saying what you've stated is completely wrong. Just that there are historical and cultural differences that are different based on the place and time from which an art originates. The frame work we have now may not really fit with one from 300 years ago and half way around the world. It wouldn't even fit that well for 300 years ago and just down the street. That though, may just be the history geek in me. While I agree with your overall explanation, I have to say that modern police and military forces certainly train groundwork (a great example being MCMAP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0SB5xlxJIU) and that is generally because as a police officer or soldier you will quite likely have backup. I would expect this to also be the case in Okinawa and so while they may have trained tegumi and te/karate separately I have a hard time believing that they kept them completely separate.

Wrestling shoes are a good option--as long as you only wear them in the dojo they won't tear up the mats and they are a full-coverage shoe with good flexibility.

Well, I haven't opened my own dojo but I've been involved in discussions about it with the head instructor at my old dojo, so my thoughts on it may not apply. As long as you notify your organization of your plans and your rank is legitimate I don't think you have anything to worry about from that point of view. I am not a lawyer, but there are some legal things you need to cover. You will need liability insurance and waivers to protect yourself from lawsuits by people if they get injured. You will need to be compliant with all local and federal laws in regards to what is required to run a gym/sports center/recreation center/athletic service because they will likely classify a dojo as something like that--I know that some places REQUIRE places in those types of categories to have contracts and there may be special taxes involved. As for the dojo itself, you will need a building, obviously, and you will want to make it look inviting and professional without looking gaudy. A sign that specifically says the name of your dojo and not something generic is always a plus. For purposes of marketing it is a good idea to start the name of your school with the first letter of the alphabet so that it comes up first in the phone book and alphabetically-ordered searches online. Getting a commercial spot on the radio isn't a bad idea, especially if you can't afford a television spot. Word of mouth will obviously be a big generator of students so you will want to be sure you teach the material well and have a good report with your students. It also wouldn't hurt to have a referral program. Just my thoughts on the matter

I must be weird--I just a jock strap AND compression shorts. My compression shorts don't have a pocket for the cup, so I don't trust them to keep it exactly where I need it on their own, but I also can't trust the jock strap on it's own. Together they keep it right were I need it and keep it tight--I have yet to have a half-in-half-out injury with this setup. I've wondered about the combo shorts like this, though, so hopefully they work out well for you and maybe I'll make the switch one of these days

Wow, thanks everybody! I didn't think I would ever be Member of the Month on any forum, so I'm very honored. Thank you!

Talk to some fellow students in the area and form a club, at least for the time being. You can meet up at a park or your school's gym and work out and practice material you already know. You may even get your instructor to come in and work out with you as well.

By lifting your leg to kick higher you are increasing the tension in your leg, so of course it will be more difficult to reach full extension because the amount of flex in your legs is being limited. I'm not sure what art you study but working in a deep shiko-dachi will help stretch for those kicks.