joesteph

We had a survey of our preferred sides/stances a while ago, Dan, and most of us said we were working on a balance, that we'd switch what I'd guess can be called orthodox and southpaw. There's so much kicking involved in the martial arts that relying on one side/stance could be a weakness, in that it might not just affect the arm strikes but the foot ones as well. I think you're going to find that, in training, elbows and knees are trained equally. Side/stance preference has nothing to do with using those weapons when you're close enough to infight. I started taking Jeet Kune Do, and the strong side is the lead side, with the "jab" not called that at all, but the straight lead instead. We practiced popping one another a bit with the lower shin, as Muay Thai does, rather than the instep (or ball of the foot) as in other arts. I think you'll find that the particular art you study has certain preferences, as I've realized studying Soo Bahk Do, and it may be as simple as how traditional or non-traditional the art is. You strike me as a "striking art" guy, which is what I'd call the arts I'm studying, but don't be surprised if joint locks and takedowns pop in there. The newest form I'm studying for Soo Bahk Do has takedown after takedown in it, which I realized by poking around YouTube and asking my teacher.

Welcome to the forums, Dan!

Congratulations Tony!

This reminds me of my Jeet Kune Do lessons. No blocking is the rule; parry and evade are the two to use. Ideally, you actually punch your opponent before his punch is parried or evaded by you. But suppose a hook punch is coming at the side of your head and there's just no way to do the above in time? Quick! Raise (and bend) one arm to protect the side of your head, your upper arm shielding below your ear, your elbow facing forward, and your forearm shielding your head above the ear. It's a block that's a necessary exception to the rule. We even did a drill in which we blocked a hook punch that way, then ducked down to evade the hook from the opponent's other arm, and then rose up to deliver two punches. Killer's right, as I interpret him, that you have to address the given situation.

This seems to be more like a lunge punch that's in a form, Gordon, but puts full bodily force into it, like a battering ram. Knockdown power. I usually practice from orthodox stance, so my right will be without step, although I raise the heel/use the ball of the foot, turn the hips, put the upper body into it, the power going through the shoulder and arm to the fist that's turned. A boxer's right. Perhaps it's meant to be interpreted, Brian, as a follow-through knockdown, or a snap for impact that's not performed in the form but it's there to be used if desired. A one-step sparring exercise that comes to mind has a push (or maybe "thrust" is a better word, as in the sword thrust example) punch to the face, and then with that forward hand an immediate grab of the back of the opponent's neck for control to execute the next strike.

Thinking of the rapid snap punch compared with a strong push punch, I wondered if there would be a special benefit with regards to the push-oriented punch, such as to have the punching arm completing its strike in the right forward place to be used in a takedown. In poking around YouTube, I found different bunkai that incorporated a block and then a takedown. I expected to find some push punch that would have that forward position (as opposed to snapping back/away, and so not used in a takedown). When I examined different videos, the ones that had the block, then the striking arm staying forward for the takedown, were all using elbow strikes, not push punches, when the striking arm was forward and worked with the blocking arm to take the opponent down. Here's a good example, done in regular and slow-mo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=CA&hl=en&v=txP8vWt3xQE I wonder if you're looking to utilize a strike that has a pushing as opposed to snapping motion, the fist isn't your weapon; the palm heel strike might serve that purpose, instead.

Welcome to the forums, Patch!

I wonder if the more vertical the fist, the easier if not faster it is to perform a snapping motion, while with the more horizontal (and even beyond horizontal) a fist, it's not that you can't do snapping motions, but they might not be as "snap effective" as the verticals. Well, everything has its pros and cons.

I chose the General Martial Arts forum instead of the Internal Arts, because this is not about chi (qi, ki) energy, but about body balance to perform optimally. In Philip Starr's Martial Mechanics, Chapter 8 is devoted to footwork, with a particular reference to the "dantien," introducing it in this chapter and then referring back to it here-and-there through the remainder of his book. He says on p. 58: The dantien . . . is located roughly three finger-widths below the navel and about two finger-widths inside. . . . like a ball that fills up most of the lower abdomen. The illustration shows not a dot but a softball-sized "mass" within the torso. He continues that: t really doesn't matter whether you believe in the concept of qi. What is important is that you understand that the dantien is the physical center of a human body and that all movement must originate from there. "t really doesn't matter whether you believe in the concept of qi" frees us from a discussion about its existence. What I'm interested in is the opinions of others regarding this point--which is quite large in the p. 58 illustration and in others that follow which feature it--as "the physical center" and therefore his maintaining that "all movement must originate from there." My own first thought was that he was speaking of the center of a human body according to body structure and weight, but men and women have different such centers. Men tend to have, in a sense, a capital "V" form, while women would be the opposite, like a capital "A" (or just turn the "V" upside down). Simplified, men tend to have wide shoulders and narrow hips, women narrow shoulders and wide hips, excess bodyweight tending to collect around the waistline for men and the hips for women, and so the men a "higher" and the women a "lower" center of bodyweight. Does it make sense for Starr to say that the dantien, or place that is below the navel and within the lower abdomen, is the "physical center" for both men and women? My first thought is that it applies much better to women than men, but the concept is very old and was likely developed by scholars in the past who were themselves men. What do you think?

What I like about a book is that the text can go into depth about the technique, especially in a striking art, and there can be a good number of still-shots with insets, arrows drawn to show body (e.g., the hips) as well as limb (such as leg/foot) motion, and it's portable; you can bring a book around with you, whether it be in the middle of a form or a technique, so that you can glance at it to get over bumps in the road. Videos show a live, fluid action, and can be in slo-mo (as DWx observed) or even zoomed into. While I'm not familiar with grappling videos, I've learned joint locks better by video than by book. For Soo Bahk Do in particular, I've got three books and three matching DVDs, none of which take the place of an instructor, but all of which have been helpful either in peeking ahead to what I'm to be introduced to, or reminding me at home of what my teacher spent class time on. Considering what ShoriKid wrote in one post, "I'm talking about expanding knowledge base without live instruction," I'd say Black Belt magazine articles, the book I finished (Chinatown Jeet Kune Do), and what I'm reading now (Martial Mechanics) have all expanded my MA knowledge in greater depth than videos (such as on YouTube or eHow), which demonstrate very well, but don't cause me to sit back and think, as a book does. Do books (and articles) give us information and serve as a catalyst to seek out videos? Maybe so.

It's funny, but after I upgraded to Internet Explorer 8, certain web pages that had a video as part of the page simply had a "box" outline and no video showing. There'd even be a small icon of a broken picture in one corner of this box. Has it happened to anyone else? I got in touch with a friend's husband, who suggested I download the latest version of Flash. It's 10. I just typed Adobe Flash Player into a search engine, the link came up, and I downloaded that latest version. Now the pages that had no video on them show them instead of that box outline. A happy ending.

I know what you're referring to, gzk, having come across it online. These two videos demonstrate the advice the boxers gave you. Jab: http://www.ehow.com/video_2359746_throwing-jab-boxing.html Right Cross: http://www.ehow.com/video_2359747_throwing-right-cross-boxing.html In the Jab video, he calls it a corkscrew and specifically says the thumb points down. I'm learning the JKD method, but the idea is whatever you're comfortable with/works for you.

Just today, Thursday, I restarted Soo Bahk Do for myself, then at night I went for my Jeet Kune Do class. I was reviewing the art in SBD class; in JKD, it went right to technique. In one of the partner drills, the partner with the focus mitt held it next to his own head while firing off a hook punch to my face. (A more advanced student than I am would have a straight punch to the nose coming at him.) In this drill, I had to parry what's incoming and punch the focus mitt. Simple enough. My partner for that drill, much younger but more advanced than I am, threw a lousy hook punch. I guess he didn't want to take the chance of giving a guy old enough to be his father a shot in the face. Well, I told him he had to throw the punch to hit me (they're going at a controlled speed anyway), and when he hedged, I took his punching arm by the wrist and started tapping the side of my face with his fist. It was the only way to let this (respectful) young man know that I wasn't going to learn anything unless we did it with some degree of reality. It worked fine, so fine that I even got popped a couple of times on the cheek with his fist (no big deal so long as you keep your teeth clenched). Incidentally, for another drill, with different partners, the strike wasn't to punch a focus mitt but to tap the other guy on top of his head. That means we were "hitting" one another regularly. Am I going back next Thursday? You bet!

I only hear of this when someone's wearing a "Red Man" suit, and self-defense techniques (especially women's self-defense) are carried out full blast. The closest to this, as I see it, is not much protection at all and you're in a UFC ring. Limited rules are there, such as don't gouge the eyes, but I wouldn't say the fighters are nut jobs. I'd say they're tough men and women who express themselves in "combat."

You're very much in the right to bring this up, Jaedeshi. Civilly, I'm afraid the instructor is involved. How much so in terms of civil responsibility (as in losing your shirt) depends on what the case turns up. You can't hold someone responsible for another person's crime, but if your actions make you an accessory, well, say hello to jail time. Jaedeshi's post refers to worst-case scenarios, but vigilance to keep the school as a safe environment is a sign of the times.

I've exhausted possibilities trying to find where I'd read a comparison of the snap vs. the non-snap so I could quote from it or direct to it, Isshinryu, but, from memory, the snap expends its energy within the body (I'd say like a smaller caliber bullet [hollow point?] going at a very high speed), but the non-snap keeps its energy going straight through the body for knockdown power (to me, like a .45 caliber bullet that travels at a slower speed, but is much heavier). Personally, I'd do more "headhunting" with the snap, and more "battering ram" (to the torso) with the non-snap.

This is more than confined to punching, but it's interesting: In Starr's "Martial Mechanics," he refers to four types of impacts, with illustrations and photos showing four strikes generating impact: focused, piercing, snap-back, and smashing. For focused, there are two illustrations of a punch against a water-filled balloon, one with a horizontal fist, the other with a vertical. The point of impact is dented in, and the opposite side bulges out. There's no reference to it being a snap or push punch, but the force generated through the opponent causes internal damage. Photos of a punch to the chin and a front snap kick to the midsection come after the explanation. For piercing, the illustration is of a finger strike to the water-filled balloon. (The text also refers to using "second knuckles" [meaning finger joint knuckles?].) It looks like only a dent at point of impact, It causes internal damage to soft tissue, and an accompanying photo shows a spear hand to the throat. For snap-back, the illustration is of a backfist to make a very small dent in the water-filled balloon at impact, followed by a bulging out at that same point of impact. The author says it has very little penetration, but the outward bulge is from what he refers to as impulse. The whiplike motion against bone, such as in the accompanying photo of a backfist to the temple, can shatter the bone. For smashing impact, the illustration is of a hammerfist against a water-filled balloon, distorting it outwards, with the idea that the blow is meant to crush on impact. Accompanying photos are of an elbow strike and a knee strike, both to the head.

I guess I started out punching, way back when, by using arm and shoulder power. I don't remember throwing my hip or bodyweight into it, but I thought my punches had power, especially since I knew I had to punch through the target. Studying Soo Bahk Do, there's an emphasis on throwing the hip into the punch, and there's a "bow and arrow movement" with the body as you rotate the hips. I'd say you're expected to be pretty well grounded when doing so. It did add more power to my punch. When I read Jack Dempsey's "Championship Fighting," I can't say I really understood his "falling step," but I can say that it opened up more twist to my body, whether jab or cross punch, rotating not only my hips but my body on the balls of my feet. I felt I was throwing more of my body into it, and it felt so fluid, so natural, that I was very happy with my punching power. Since taking--not just reading about (thank you Teri Tom for your Black Belt magazine articles)--Jeet Kune Do lessons, and experiencing the straight lead, committing the hand first, shifting the bodyweight from back to front, and hitting the target a split second before the lead foot lands, I'm finding myself punching much differently. I researched the forums for the "One Strike One Kill" thread, and within it I found a link to Iain Abernethy's web site: http://go.karateforums.com/?id=378X600&url=http%3A//www.iainabernethy.com/articles/Power_and_Impact.asp where he's advocating that the body must move first. I feel that the way Dempsey and Abernethy fight, it's a lot of power, but I'd say it seems to be more "push punch power" in comparison with Lee's "snap punch power." Kuma recommended Phillip Starr's "Martial Mechanics," which I'm now reading, and Chapter 5 has force generating from the rear foot as the "driving foot" for punching power, that foot shown rooted in the photos. But there's also a photo of Teri Tom's fist just starting to hit a focus mitt, her lead foot a hairsbreath away from landing, and her rear heel up as the rear foot propels her forward, in the July edition of Black Belt. I just know that when I restart adult Soo Bahk Do lessons on Thursday (taking SBD earlier than my JKD lesson later that night--wish me luck!), I might have to adjust to two kinds of punching, depending on where I'm training. What do other members favor, or do you find yourselves "mixing it up"?

I wonder if another way of looking at Bob's proposed choosing skill or will for first place can be compared to two students, either academically or in the martial arts. One may have the skill, such as a naturally brighter or more talented student, and the other may be average in intelligence or natural talent. The one who is truly motivated (Will) tends to bring out the best in him/herself. The naturally brighter/more talented student starts with an advantage; lack of motivation (Will) sabotages this (underachieving). The average student can achieve satisfactory results, but if highly self-driven (Will), the greater motivation enhances and can have the average student bypass the more skilled one. I'm sure that instructors who are forums members have seen gifted & motivated and gifted & unmotivated, as well as average & satisfactory and average & motivated. Personally, I feel that the one who puts his/her whole heart into it has an advantage and, in an unarmed combat situation, that drive may mean everything. Of course, perhaps there is no set rule that puts one of these, skill and will, first; there may be many anecdotes, though, that lead us to think of choosing one to take first place.

I'd say you're right on target, Brian. I've found that there are techniques that I've been practicing already, such as how to throw the hip into the punch, that are enhanced by JKD, such as to put the body into it with the "falling step" (Lee read Dempsey ) of the lead punch. It also allows me to decide what techniques in my arsenal I feel are most natural to me, from using a vertical or three-quarters fist to choosing the lower shin rather than the instep for a roundhouse (hook kick in JKD) below the waist. If someone is into, or wants to augment his/her training in, techniques that go straight to combat, I'd definitely recommend JKD.

Greater rank means greater responsibility. Accepting the higher rank, indeed, testing for it to achieve it, means that the individual has accepted all that goes with it. This includes teaching others. (Insert in here the advantages of teaching others.) The high school in which I teach social studies has a chapter of the National Honor Society. Membership is voluntary; even if the student has fantastic grades, membership is not automatic, she must choose to apply, and she is informed of the responsibilities that go with membership. Tutoring (as well as participation in school functions) is required. No monetary compensation is involved. I see the martial arts school as being on safe ground so long as information about the duties of the higher rank are disclosed in advance.

Cecil Woodham-Smith's "The Reason Why" examines the persons and events that led up to the charge of the Light Brigade in the Crimean War. The British were not conducting the war against Russia properly due to officers from the aristocracy who had legally purchased (instead of earned by merit) their rank, and so military errors were bound to happen. The book does not deal only with the Light Brigade and its historic charge; it deals with events before it, which include an unusual attack by the Heavy Brigade, one in which the greatly outnumbered British cavalry fought its way into a far larger number of (properly trained) Russian cavalry, then fought its way out. When it comes to the Light Brigade, it was an error in conveying and interpreting orders that caused the cavalry charge against artillery. In both instances that I've referred to, the British will was so strong that, even against a numerically larger and more powerful (artillery) enemy, it was the enemy who received a tremendous shock. The fighter with proficiency in the simplest of fighting techniques, skilled in blocking/parrying, punching, kicking, and, if need be, zoning, who has greater will to prevail than his opponent(s), is the one I'd put my money on.

I don't know your belt level, Still Kicking, but in Soo Bahk Do, there are eighteen of these one-step sparring drills to be learned on the gup levels, which are probably the equivalent of the "set drills" you've refer to. Certain ones make sense; others raise questions. I've found that if I examine the required ones, I'd make changes to be more realistic--or should I say useable. When I spoke with the assistant instructor, he told me that, by the time he reached dan level, he'd figured out how to customize the drill components. The idea seems to be to do the official, if not actually traditional, techniques, and while you're gaining experience, to have figured out how to use/alter the requireds to suit the situation, such as in sparring. I wonder if I like the non-required, "fun" drills (as I call them) that my teacher gives us because they're self-evident regarding what you're doing. Are your kicks required to be above the waist, Still Kicking? The taller the opponent, the more thigh is open for attack. Do you have that freedom when sparring in the dojo? I know that in many tournaments below the waist is not forbidden, but no points will be awarded. So long as you do the techniques properly, I'd say thinking for yourself is a strength.

Welcome to the Forums, Chuck! Taking Shotokan with your son? I take Soo Bahk Do with my seven-year-olds, assisting twice a week. It's a great father-sons activity. How old is your son? Are you together in the same class?

I had my second JKD lesson tonight, the class I'm attending being on Thursdays and an hour-and-a-half long. This class had more variety than last week's, and one of my fellow JKD class members is a student from my high school (I teach social studies), who's going into her senior year. She studies both TKD and JKD. I've never used bands for punching and kicking exercises before, although they seemed to be for a warmup. There was a lot of focus mitt work, especially getting that lead punch in with (stepping) power, then combining it with a cross or hook punch. Kicking was low, and I'm glad we were allowed to give one another a slight whack to the thigh and shin instead of a tap. (Remember that I'm coming from a non-contact art, so the tap is even technically out-of-bounds.) I'm following how to do JKD techniques right (not that I'm actually doing them well after two lessons, but that if I understand and practice like a maniac, I'll get somewhere), partly from Soo Bahk Do's emphasis on turning the hip, Jack Dempsey's "Championship Fighting," which I read some time ago and was an eye-opener, and "Chinatown Jeet Kune Do" by Tim Tackett and Bob Bremer, which I'm reading now. BTW, my partner (last Thursday and tonight) has a background in wrestling, and thought that Jeet Kune Do would round things out. I think he may be right.