tenshinka

Funny bit sis HRD has a connection to Kuk Sool...TKD is just an offshoot of Karate (as is Tang Soo Do, but I enjoy it none the less)...But something is different with the material that comes from the Kuk Sool lineage... Gumdo does not make many crazy claims, most of them will tell you they are from Kendo...Unless you are Haidong Gumdo, which has a very made up history, and plus most of their material comes from Shim Gum Do...Which by the was, is a legit Buddhist Sword School...There is also MUYE20, and EeShipSaBan, which are recreating the native korean sword work from MYDBTJ http://muye24ki.or.kr fwiw, --josh

Tang Soo Do: Kicho Il Bu I agree BB of C...Kicho Hyung and Woon Hak hyung are Kuk Sools best IMHO...Although Bak Pal Ki is cool too

I enjoyed that immensely; nice work ;-D

That cracks me up lol...Either break, or dont break. This video is a perfect example showing the futility of the multiple preparatory motions...They simulate nothing in relation to the action you are actually going to (attempt to) perform...

Interesting that you mention Tai Chi, Josh. I've looked ahead at upcoming forms, and one by GM Hwang Kee is called Chil Sung E Ro Hyung (Seven Star Form #2). Just past the middle point in the hyung is a series of moves that reminds me of a section of a long Taiji form I'd worked on with a friend when I studied it in the past, but with the movements given greater emphasis in this hyung. Others too? Possibly; I'll know at some point. I recognize that he was proud of his Korean heritage and, in finding the subak reference, thought it the best reference to make. Some call him a martial arts protege; some call him a philosopher (Moo Duk Kwan); I'd call him both. Hi Joe, Interestingly enough, GM used to teach Tai Chi, the Yang Style 88 form in particular, and it was detailed in his "Soo Bahk Do Dae Kam" in which it was referred to as the "Tae Keuk Kwon"...He also taught Long Fist Kung Fu in the form of So Rim Jang Kwan (which was Paldan curriculum in MDK at one time, then later eedan, and then dropped)...HC Hwang does double broadswords, and there is a fan form floating around as well. The Tai'Chi references in the Chil Sung hyung are numerous. I know that the USSBDMDKF teaches Chil Sung Ee Ro first, as it has more hard stlye movements...But if you look are Chil Sung Il Ro, there are classic Tai'Chi postures scattered throughout, Single Whip, Work The Shutters, Single Ward Off etc. All of the Chil Sung forms are very Tai Chi influenced. Is it no coincidence then, that the Yuk Rho look very Long Fist Kung Fu inspired??? GM's work that details his research into the MYDBTJ, is actually the "Hwa Sun" (Pure Flower) form, but I guess that is Childan stuff now, and there are actually two versions of it, one for the public (in SBD Vol. 2), and then the real one lol take care, --josh

I do believe Kuk Sool is the closest thing to that though. As far as I know, it was founded in 1956 by In Hyuk Suh who studied the martial art of the royal palace, the martial art of the Korean Buddist temple, tribal martial arts, accupuncture, and gymnastics. They're all supposed to be Korean forms that have been used throughout the history of the Korean penninsula before the Japanese takeover. Kuk Sool Won was founded by Sun, In Hyuk...There was a whole Kuk Sool movement, before the Won cam along...Kuk Sool Kwan was founded by Kim Woo Tak, and predated GM Suh's efforts by quite bit...Then there was the Kuk Sool Hwe, of which GM Lee, Joo Bang was a member, as were many others. Kuk Sool was a combined effort between many Korean GM's. Josteph, I am a HUGE fan of GM Hwang, Kee...he was an AWESOME innovator. However, I keep going back to the fact that the Soo Bahk Do hyung bear more resemblance Long Fist, and Tai'Chi, than the MYDBTJ material, which would go back to GM's study with Yang Jeng-Kou (Yang Kuk Jin). It seems to me that GM took the information that he learned in Manchuria, and combined it with what he taught himself and observed of Kong Soo Do, and used the MYDBTJ in a fashion so as to give him inspiration to innovate... fwiw, --josh

mind muscle lol

I do believe Kuk Sool is the closest thing to that though. Is there some literature that explains this? I would be interested in looking into it. Unfortunately, most of the scholarly papers and reasearch into Kuk Sool are published only in Korean...My assertion comes from my personal research into the techniques, and forms in relation to both Chinese and Japanese sources...

I do believe Kuk Sool is the closest thing to that though.

Yea, I think it is purely coincidence. There are only so many ways to move the body...If you took two people from different parts of the world, and asks them to record a way to stretch the entire body, I bet each person would have pretty similar results take care, --josh

Hello, My guess is that you are comparing this set of warm ups to Kuk Sool's Mohm Puhl Ki exercises...Personally I seem some resemblance, but not near enough to make me think the two sets are related... Kuk Sool does not have many Japanese influences to speak of, its more related to the Chinese arts...Mantis and Long Fist in particular...

Well, I know there are a couple different schools of thought when it comes to the dynamics of technique integration. Basically it was explained to me as a "starting point"...You break technique down into pieces to teach it... For instance initially you focus on basic block-strike combos...Parry, cover, strike etc. Then as students progress they start learning joint manipulations and the like.... So to give a starting point, to learn the principle behind the given technique, you learn from a wrist grab. When you have a good understanding of the technique...You can add it to combination, and with different attacks...For instance defense from a punch, you parry into a grab, cover and strike (to set up), and then perform the joint manipulation... In Hapkido at least, when someone grabs your wrist, you almost always end up reversing it (escaping the grab, and re-grabbing)... So the real starting point to the technique is when you grab the attackers wrist... Thus, in rudimentary partner practice, the initiation is the attacker grabbing your wrist, the starting point is your counter, grabbing their wrist, followed by the technique. fwiw, --josh

I'm 6' 1" and 180 lbs I wear a size 5...Although I can still fit into a size 4, the pants are just a bit tight. Kwon seems to run HUGE to me...I had one of there judo dogi once, and I remember it running very large... I would say you are probably a 2 1/2 to a 3 in Kwon sizing...1oo% cotton would shrink though, so I would go size 3... take care, --josh

Congrats

Hi Josteph, I think it is most definitely (in this aspect) up to the instructor to broaden their offerings...Some cannot do it, and thus dont teach it...Others can no longer do it, but understand the principles and teach it...Some can do and teach, and just teach how they choose. Many of these *specialty* kicks, are not found in the base curriculum of TSD (and I assume SBD), as the techniques are the hyung lol Thus, not being promotional material the skills are often neglected. Personally, I feel that they are of ZERO combat value...But the historical value (in regards to Tae Kyun, where GM Hwang learned many of the techniques) they are interesting to at least be familiar with In any case, an instructors obligations are really delegated by the contentment of his/her students. Its a mutual relationship...Its a fine line...Do I feel that if an instructor has a student that wants to learn hapkido, when the art being taught is TSD/SBD/TKD has an obligation to learn hapkido? NO. But I do feel that it IS an instructors obligation to be at least knowledgeable in all (*most*) aspects of the art they are teaching, or else they would best be suited to continue training, and not instructing others IMHO...Familiarity does not necessarily translate proficiency, however. That is a very fine line, and I would say must be based entirely on the particulars of a given situation. Speaking of envy ( ) In April, I had the opportunity to train with GM Kwang S. Hwang (ITF 9th Dan), who is in his mid to late 70's...Watching him throw kicks WITHOUT WARMING UP was UNREAL! I can only hope and pray to have that amount at his age take care, --josh

Hi Josteph, In Tang Soo Do, and indeed Soo Bahk Do, we (as you know) are quite form (hyung) based. I find it odd, that the only jumping kick (let alone flying kick) we have in the whole curriculum, is a single jump front kick in Kong San Kun (at 4th dan)...I have seen many SBD'ers performing flying scissor kicks, split kicks, double jump front kick, flying side kick etc. But I know that my TSD instructor never (many of them) taught them. As a contrast, when I studied Kukki Tae Kwon Do, on my third or 4th lesson we were working on jump front kicks, and jumping side kicks. Personally, I can say that I really only *practice* the following: Jump Front Kick, Jump (Flying) Side Kick, Jump-Spinning Back Kick, and Jump-Spinning Hook Kick. fwiw, --josh

Hello Chikara, and welcome to KarateForums.com. While there IS much to be said about the value of Kata, and traditional Karate training, it sounds like, in your particular situation, it is a belt factory. If your teacher legitimately does not allow you to research other styles, combined with the chauvinistic attitude, it may be a good idea to find a new place to train best wishes, --josh

Hello Orillion, and welcome to KaraeForums.com. In addition to the way we train our kicks, in the Tang Soo Do I have taught in the past we have a drill that is taught to new students, before and regular forms called Sam Ship Soo (30 Hands) in which the student stands in a horse stance, and executes 30 hand techniques (all of the basic strikes and blocks). It ends in a Sam jin (Sanchin), dynamic tension stance, forcing isotonic tension in the legs and arms. Works good for developing initial leg strength, if practiced enough, properly. Thanks for the post!!

Well, the funny part is that Tae Kyun, was, at best, a folk game. Not really a martial art. Though, other countries had things like this as well, as forerunners of systematized martial arts...Such as the "Mei kata" of Okinawa. I think his training, mostly consisted of youthful experiences of "game play", which became systematized as "Martial Art".

Why not concentrate on Moo Yea Do first?

Well for sure he was a national living treasure...If I remember right, the Korean Government led a search to find Tae Kyun practicioners, and eventually found GM Song Duk Ki...His history is interesting for sure... Enjoy! --josh

That was an interesting video...There is actually a second one posted on Youtube as well... Thanks for sharing.

Kenshukai Kansas City, MO, USA Instructors: Skeen Shihan, and Richards Shihan

Tae Kyun was never taught to the military. That is, unless you count Gen. Chou Hong-Hi teaching Oh Do Kwan, which he claims had Tae Kyun material. In reality, Tae Kyun was not uncovered again as an art until Song Duk Ki came along in '68 and showing the art to the public...He is the only person to be recognized as having real experience in the art, and was deemed a living national treasure by the Korean government.

Feel free to call me Josh. Tang Soo Do was the fore runner of Tae Kwon Do. It is somewhat similar to ITF (Changhon style) minus the sine wave, but bears no resemblance Kukki TKD. It places equal emphasis on hand and foot techniques, or at least the way I learned it did lol. The minimums accepted for Chodan by most TSDer of Moo Duk Kwan lineage today is as follows: 10 Hyung, Forms: Kicho Il Bu Kicho Ee Bu Kicho Sam Bu Pyong Ahn Chodan Pyong Ahn Eedan Pyong Ahn Samdan Pyong Ahn Sadan Pyong Ahn Ohdan Balsae Naebujin Chodan Kyuk Pa (Breaking): Several Breaks w/ various hand and foot techniques. In Neh (Endurence): Dependent on School Knowledge of History, and Terminology 1-10 Pg. Paper of TSD as it applies to your life. Some schools have MUCH more, some have a little less...Just depends