sensei8

Good luck...please let us know how things work out.

One of the most required decoration, imho, "PUSH/PULL" stick-on signs on every door because it's embarrassing to open/close any door incorrectly in the Hombu/Dojo and I always "PUSH" when I should've "PULL" or vise versa...it entertains everyone at the Hombu/Dojo. And yes, this is a decoration for me! If while I'm visiting an unfamiliar school and I see no "PUSH/PULL" signs, I'll wait until I see someone else open the door so I know which way. Rank/Title has its privileges, and many will open the door for me.

No matter the rank...everyone loses once in a while...no ones unbeatable.

I am not sure of the GM's age, but I doubt that he is in his 70's.

Welcome to KF!!!!!!!!

Oh please say you have that on video...ppppllllllleeeeessssssseeeeee!!

Again, solid points Zaine. If someone's instructor loses at a local tournament or at a UFC event; that shouldn't lessen that instructor in the eyes of his/hers students, students' parents/friends, and/or the layperson... Everyone losses from time to time! I'd only take a serious note of someones losing at any said venue only if that same individual lost all of the time.

Santa was quite generous with you this year Clay!! Merry Christmas!

Balance is extremely important in every aspect of the Martial Arts. In this thread, I'm particularly wanting for us to discuss balance as it affects the myriad of techniques that make up the Martial Arts. In this OP, I'll pose some tidbit questions, and they'll be in bold so that they'll be easy enough to spot. First, let's take a look at the Merriam-Webster's definition of balance as it refers to Martial Art techniques: 7 a : physical equilibrium b : the ability to retain one's balance Without balance, any technique losses it effectiveness across the board. Balance must be maintained throughout the ENTIRE technique!! Not for just the beginning or the middle or the end, but from the start to finish. In posture, there must be balance. In stance, there must be balance. In execution of any said technique, there must be balance. In application of any said technique, there must be balance. Where else, must there be balance? One can do any Martial Arts technique, but doing any Martial Arts technique requires that it must be effective, otherwise, there's no use in even doing it in the first place. In punching, ones balance must be established, otherwise, it's impotent. In blocking, ones balance must be established, otherwise, it's mowed through. In striking, ones balance must be established, otherwise, it's reflected back. In kicking, ones balance must be established, otherwise, it's only a push. What other techniques are affected by not establishing ones balance? If ones balance isn't established, then our foundation crumbles beneath us as effortlessly as the tumbleweed that's blown over the desert in which it meanders through. Grappling arts, Tuite for example, requires of us that our foundation be firmly established, hence, we become easily trodden under our opponents feet. How else does balance affect ones foundation? Becoming off-balance because of opposing forces that are greater than ones own, for that moment, happens from time to time, however, it must be reestablished forthwith; if not, that battle, and/or for that moment, it is lost. When is the lack of balance our fault? It unfathomably disheartens me when I see "black belt" level practitioners, no matter the style of the Martial Arts, 'perform' unbalanced, unfocused, and slovenly techniques. These type of practitioners give the Martial Arts a black eye, imho, and because of those 'go-through-the-motions' type of practitioners, I'm, without cause, clumped up with those of ill-favor via acquaintance through appearance sake alone, therefore, the layperson quickly judges me under that same light. I use the word 'perform' because for any technique of the martial arts to be described as being 'executed', it must meet every requirement to be worthy of effectiveness. Balance: Important or not?!? Indubitably so!! Your thoughts...please and thank you.

I've tons of respect for those styles of the martial arts that don't train in Kata, providing what they do teach is effective separate and apart from Kata/Bunkai/Oyo, and in that, whatever they teach isn't dependent on Kata/Bunkai/Oyo either in its parts and/or its whole. Kata/Bunkai/Oyo is just another aspect of martial arts training that has proven in its effective methods to those who've seriously trained in it. Yes...all of the time devoted to Kata makes it worth its endeavor because there's so much to learn from training in Kata providing that Bunkai/Oyo is also seriously trained in. Kata without Bunkai/Oyo isn't effective. Bruce Lee made a lot of statements, and as much as I respect the martial arts of Bruce and many of his statements, I do not agree with his "dry land" theory at all.

Great points Zaine. How many laypersons will judge an instructor by how many trophies adorn their school? As well as how many laypersons will judge an instructor and/or a student by one tournament loss, no matter the division?

If I'm correct, the form GM In Ho Lee was doing is only for the GM, who's the only one in the ATA with that rank, 9th Dan. That form is normally only done during his/her inauguration as the GM. Name of the form is Dong Seung, it has 99 moves. The ATA GM goes thru quite a lot leading up to his/her inauguration, including learning that particular form.

MP, I'm glad to see that you've had a chance to see the effective side of Kata; Bunkai. And that what you saw was effective indeed. As a Karateka, I understand the disdain for Kata for the varied reason(s), but as a proponent of Kata, which includes effective Bunkai/Oyo Bunkai, my temperature reaches a boiling point when I read/hear negative comments about Kata as a whole, and it's because of what has been done in many of the martial art styles that just don't teach Bunkai along with the Kata/Form at all...this I don't like, and this I don't understand. I don't teach dancing, no, I teach Shindokan Karate-do Saitou-ryu. Ok...I need to lay down for a moment or two.

My ears perked up while I read about the intensity and all...that's a testing cycle...YES!! Congrats Clay on your promotion and it looks like you need to get ready for your Shodan testing cycle...especially with those Sensei's that have helped you thus far. WAY TO GO CLAY!!

I, too, wholeheartedly agree with your most solid post MP...thank you sir!!

I'm of the methodology that Kata without Bunkai is nothing more than a dance; pretty to watch but ineffective and without substance.

That's exactly what I was wondering. GM's techniques were not GM caliber, imho. Students will want to emulate the GM, for the GM is the head of the style/organization in every shape, way, and/or form. Kime is FOCUS...POWER!! Kime is not MOTION(S)!! I'm just aking a/the question. I mean no disrespect to GM In Ho Lee and/or the ATA Organization and/or any ATA student.

Will you be challenged? If not, keep looking. Platitudes and the like are fine for decorations, but it's the core of the Chief Instructor that I'd look into. Watch him/her, study him/her, and how well does he/she interact with students and guests. Watch a lot of classes! Things will reveal themselves during class. Good luck!

First off...Welcome to KarateForums.com 29Bill. Imho, recommending a style of the martial arts is like recommending anything...it'll end of being more of a hit and miss because "tastes" aren't the same from person to person. However, I think Zaine offers up some concrete recommendations that you might want to explore. Travel is a major concern of joining anything because of time restraints and such, but not out of the question. If a school has what you want and need, travel just has to be figured into your decision. Will you be challenged across the board for the things that you want and need from the martial arts? If not, another plan is called for. If you don't want to worry about Kata in any shape, way, and/or form, then Shorin-ryu isn't for you, and for that fact, most, if not all Japanese and Okinawan arts aren't for you. Any, if my memory serves me correctly, "contact" Karate styles might be out because they're going to have Kata within their curriculum. I don't know of many, if any, Karate styles that don't have Kata in their curriculum. Do any Chinese styles, they're more than likely going to have "Forms" in their curriculum as well. Most, if not all, Korean styles will more than likely have their share of "Forms" in their curriculum as well. Can one avoid Kata/Forms in the martial arts? Sure! Boxing doesn't have Kata. MMA doesn't have Kata. Savate doesn't have Kata. Wrestling doesn't have Kata. BJJ doesn't have Kata. Aikido and Judo don't have Kata, to a small extent, although they've Randori training; Kata is the laboratory, while Randori or free practice, is the testing ground. Jeet Kune Do doesn't have Kata. Krav Maga doesn't have Kata. The list of Kata-less forms of the martial arts are out there, one just has to research them and then find them and then are they within ones acceptable travel area. Good luck with your search and I look forward in hearing what you decide when the time comes.

Any comments?

>I'm afraid of the punch that doesn't penetrate. >I'm afraid of the kick the doesn't cause harm. >I'm afraid of the block that doesn't deflect. >I'm afraid of the strike that doesn't break. >I'm afraid of the application that's not effective. Too often, as practitioners of the martial arts will do, we train; but I fear that many practitioners train reserved. Many are taught, for example, when they spar, to stop/arrest any said technique within a hair's-breadth of any said target for safeties sake, and then its realized and reinforced at some local weekend tournament. What happens when the technique counts and it doesn't because of practices that are honed in us? As an instructor, I'm responsible for what and how I teach my students. I'd hate to train my students for tournaments and belts only because there are limits to that type of constant training, imho. On a closing note, live training is critical, and in that, live contact should be paramount. That's why I teach my student to be that resisting Uke when training, for example, in Tuite, but only after the technique/application has been taught. I look forward to your responses...thank you.

A very SOLID post Danielle!

My Dai-Soke loved to turn the tables on us quite often... "You teach me today. Please, you show me. I want to see what you found in your Oyo training...but it must be effective! I don't care the Kata you pick, just be effective." I'm from the camp of those who believe that Bunkai is based on ones own interpretation, however, it must still be effective.

Sorry Alex, I didn't mean for the thread to make the turn(s) it made from my one question.

When you wake up one morning and you talk yourself out of training that day: this could be a sign of burnout. When you take short-cuts in your usual length of training and excuse it away: this could be another sign of burnout When you suddenly stop training because the mundane repetitive nature of training is weighing...again, all of a sudden: this could be another sign of burnout.