sensei8

I don't think this is problem specifically for JBBs. An adult can train for a few years, get the belt, then disappear. 5 years down the line they probably can't remember anything and won't have had any practice in it either. I've seen a few people who used to train "back in the day" who turn up to class expecting to be a blackbelt again but wouldn't last 2 seconds in a fight because they've forgotten it all. TBH I would even say that JBBs might be in a better position when it comes to self defense. At least in our school it gets drilled into the kids that they should get free and run if confronted. That's probably going to stick with them even if they forget the techniques themselves. A lot of adult former BB probably would be like: "stand aside citizen, I'm a blackbelt" and then get the snot kicked out of them. I understand and respect what you're saying. When one looks at organizations similar to the ATA and Karate Kids, those organizational types are what I would consider the core of what happens to children in the martial arts. They join those types of organizations for the sole purpose of reaching BB, then they quite immediately right after their BB ceremony, and then they never practice any martial arts ever again, for whatever reason(s). I agree that there are reasons for not awarding JBBs but I don't agree that juniors are the only ones who want the blackbelt and then leave again and won't be able to defend themselves several years down the line. Maybe I'm misinterpreting your case. Maybe I don't understand but I just think that your argument can be equally applied to adult blackbelts. Its no more problematic than an adult doing the same thing and as far as self defense goes, it just brings them back down to the level of the normal untrained Joe Bloggs. Perhaps you could say that this is more common in kids because they burnout and get bored easier but the same could be said of plenty of adults too. It's not the JBB rank itself that causes the student to quit. No matter whether they are a child or an adult they can decide that they've achieved all they want and get bored with MAs. I don't see how awarding a JBB is going to make this a problem in kids. The teacher should be assessing whether the person is just in it for the belt, and then decide whether to promote them, regardless of their age. Organizations that focus on the blackbelt as a goal (i.e. McDojos) may attract a lot of kids due to their marketing strategies and business plans but they'll also be pushing adults through to blackbelt at an equal rate. And if the issue here is their skills, well they most likely won't have any decent ability anyway even if they carried on training. Like I said, maybe I've misinterpreted but I don't see how JBB is a problem here. In my OP, I did mention that it's problematic for BOTH adults AND children, however, I've used JBB's as the thread content/subject. That's why I mentioned the "Karate Kids" organization who only teaches children. For JBB it's more problematic for kids/JBB due to parental control. A child can only control "interest", whereas, the parent(s)/guardian(s) control when the child goes to class and when the child can no longer attend any classes, whether it's before or after BB.

I concur MP. I believe that one must learn how to separate the person from the work because the work, if solid across the board, shouldn't be ignored for whatever reason(s).

I don't think this is problem specifically for JBBs. An adult can train for a few years, get the belt, then disappear. 5 years down the line they probably can't remember anything and won't have had any practice in it either. I've seen a few people who used to train "back in the day" who turn up to class expecting to be a blackbelt again but wouldn't last 2 seconds in a fight because they've forgotten it all. TBH I would even say that JBBs might be in a better position when it comes to self defense. At least in our school it gets drilled into the kids that they should get free and run if confronted. That's probably going to stick with them even if they forget the techniques themselves. A lot of adult former BB probably would be like: "stand aside citizen, I'm a blackbelt" and then get the snot kicked out of them. I understand and respect what you're saying. When one looks at organizations similar to the ATA and Karate Kids, those organizational types are what I would consider the core of what happens to children in the martial arts. They join those types of organizations for the sole purpose of reaching BB, then they quite immediately right after their BB ceremony, and then they never practice any martial arts ever again, for whatever reason(s).

How hard do you "work" your black belts? Do you ""challenge" your black belts? For me, the higher the rank, the even harder I work them. I do this, not to be mean/cruel, but because I don't want their rank to get into the way of their knowledge and the evolving of same said...and it happens from time to time; black belts forget themselves. My Dai-Soke pulled me down from my own pedestal more times than I can remember, for my own good, and I'm glad that he did. Black belts, especially black belts, become progressively unfruitful from time to time if they're not challenged on a more daily basis. Pushing them to the summit of their training/learning/knowledge where they feel that they just can't reach any further, and not allowing them to give up on themselves by reaching that rung that appears to be only an illusion for the moment....then drag 'IT' out of them. Making our black belts train beyond their rank/title makes them appreciate them the more. Any thoughts?

Are you a proponent of your styles founders vision? I am not! While I was at one time, I've evolved beyond his spectrum across the board. I'm my own, and on my own, my vision is of my own making by traveling on my own path; my own journey wants and needs to be far away from the confinements of Soke Saitou's vision, and furthermore, far away from the confinements of Dai-Soke Takahashi's vision. Is my own vision parallel with Soke and/or Dai-Soke? Possibly to some extent it is. I keep their separate visions in my rear view mirror so as I stay true to Shindokan within my own evolving vision, but not a prisoner of any vision, including my own. I must kick off the shackles that are only theirs, and allow me to walk independent. As my students instructor, my first priority is not to my students. No. It's to my own betterment. Before I can touch my students betterment, I must understand and nourish my own betterment first. Otherwise, I've nothing to challenge them with, nothing to offer to them of value; I'm as stagnate and useful as a fishing net is for holding water. As Soke and Dai-Soke's student, I must think for myself so as to understand what possible lies before me on my martial arts journey. If I keep a death grip on their vision, I don't allow my own vision to start, develop, stumble, mature, and penetrate through theirs, and in that, my own vision is free to question and to learn and to appreciate all that I discover on accident and/or on purpose. I welcome your thoughts....no...I welcome your vision.

Within the world of the martial arts, Junior Black Belts can be found in the many varying styles, without having to look too hard. I was one for 5 years, and I found it to be a very important part of my martial arts training. Many students of all ages quit right after receiving their JBB/Shodan, to never shadow a dojo/dojang door ever again. I don't fault them for their decisions because they've their reason(s) and in that, I must respect them, and not allow my own personal feelings to interfere with my sensibility. Discarding their martial arts training completely after JBB/Shodan is also their given right to do so. However, being a child Yudansha can be more problematic than as an adult, to say the least. Why? When a child BB hasn't continued in any type of martial arts training after becoming an adult, and forgoing the martial arts across the board, and then has to use it [MA], and they can't because they've forgotten how to. Defeat on the dojo/tournament floor is one thing, but defeat on the streets can have traumatic consequences, imho. Not just children, but adults as well, will change their interests, and that which was important to them at one time, is now no longer a priority over college/starting a career/raising a family/supporting a family, which I respect across the board. Imho, forgetting something that had the positive potentiality to protect your family as well as yourself can be paramount to an airplane pilot forgetting how to fly the plane. Continue training in the martial arts by all means, not for rank/title/platitudes; but for the sake of still being able to defend those who mean the most to you as well as yourself. I welcome your thoughts!

Great topic!! I couldn't answer the poll question because I do all listed equally during my solo training, and that's because the way we were trained is the way I train; a lot of everything so as I don't become unbalanced in my training. Favoring one over another causes a flaw that's too easily detected by my opponent, imho.

Not every black belt can teach, even though they might be a great fighter. The transition from the competitive ring onto the dojo/school floor as the instructor is a extremely thin line, imho.

Let me try to put it in terms that you're familiar with. Mas Oyama is the founder of Kyokushin, therefore, he's the Soke, the founder. What does a Soke do? What Oyama did to promote the art he founded is what a Soke typically does...in short...brand management. Why should there be one again? That's my exact question. I suppose that the desire of wanting a Soke type is to rekindle the flame of having that type of leadership at the top rung...a believed tradition I suppose. I hope this answers your questions.

Brian, I'll try to give you the watered down explanation in one paragraph, as to not bore anyone with all of the legalese, and red-tape stuff. The Counsel of Regents, as set up by our Soke, are primarily designed to prevent any and all possible appearances of servitude and the like. Secondarily, they act like Sergeant-of-Arms to improve the betterment of the Hombu, and in that, the betterment of the student body, and in that, the betterment of Shindokan. Looks good on paper, but as of late, it's all askew from where Soke had originated.

Yeah...short and sweat...to the point. But, your testing was actually 2 weeks long, if I understand what I've highlighted in the bold above.

Let the rank take care of itself, and it will!! It's [the rank] not up to you, so focus on training and not on rankings. Is it frustrating? Sure it is, but there are far more greater things to be frustrated over than rank. Hang in there!!

Shindokan has Iaido/Batto jutsu training, but it's not to the hard core of any Iaido ryuha. Therefore, I might not be able to give you anything worth its salt. Our Iaido/Batto jutsu doesn't start until Nidan per our Soke...I wish we had it much sooner than that. Sorry Alex.

Welcome to KF!!!!!!!!

Welcome to KF!!!!!!!!

Nunchaku's and any other MA weapons is up to the practitioners like/dislike. However, your instructor is whom you should ask because he/she might not want you to wield this particularly nunchaku for his/her qualified reason(s). I personally wouldn't allow my students to train with this nunchaku, no matter rank, for the reasons as stated here by Kodakmint. Shindokan Kobudo only authorizes nunchaku's that are of the rope type because there's no binding and the like. Good luck and please let us know what you've decided.

Great stuff...sign me up!!

Great topic!! Flyers are a tricky thing, but doable for any martial arts school. Whenever I pass out flyers, I'll pass out an entire ream of whatever color paper and I'll saturate a regional area. Then, I'll do another different color paper, but still another ream much more closer to my dojo. That's 1,000 flyers and 1% return isn't a bad thing..that's about 10 students. Passing them out every quarter, gives you 40 student potentiality per year...not too shabby. Yard signs are doable and affordable as well, plus they can reach a much wider area much more than blanketing an area/region. 10 yard signs placed systematically around your school can do the same thing as flyers, but more durable and not running the risk that they'll be just thrown in the nearest trash can, like a flyer. Political yard signs are everywhere during a voting year, so don't place your yard signs anywhere near those because they'll just get swallowed up by the thousands of political yard signs. I prefer the yard signs over flyers because I can get the same and/or better return and with less the effort...walking is a great exercise, but passing out 500 to 1,000 flyers at a time can be quite a task. Yard signs can go up at nearly any street corner, but a flyer can't just be placed into/onto any place. Some places require permission before you blanket their parking lot and the like with your flyer. "NO" can be a very familiar phrase when seeking permission to pass out a ton of flyers, and before you know it, you're way out of your regional area anyway. Good luck, and please keep us informed.

Great post MP!!

Great posts all!! There's no other time than right now.

I wholeheartedly agree with Alex and Brian. Some don't have even a minimum of an idea as to what their actions and/or the lack thereof does to another individual...it's a sad affair at times.

Great posts all!! Me and my belly are going to miss each other...soon, I hope!!

Great posts all. Great topic Ev. About 19 years ago, I came down with the flu/high temp. My assistants were not available right away to cover for me, so, I went to the dojo and taught three classes before help arrived. Lucky, I didn't infect anyone. Between classes, I laid down with the light off in my office. The longest three classes of my life, and I had to change my gi top before each class because I was dripping sweat...not a fun night for me.

Funny stuff. Thank you datguy and RW for posting those links.

Ditto...on the last paragraph above.