sensei8

Even more simple answer to the OP question... It's heart!! No heart, then there's no MAist.

Looks to me that she's wrapping it before doing the knot. It is different, I'll say that for sure.

Imho, The only way to truly find the answers to any of your questions and concerns is to visit both schools and speak with the sensei and see for yourself. Good luck and please, let us know what style you finally decide on.

A few things here. 1. There are arts out there that wouldn't be deemed "traditional," but are instead rooted in the type of techniques and training tactics used by LEOs and armed forces. There needn't be any kind of traditional background to begin with. 2. I don't think I need to totally come to a complete understanding of my TKD training or my Hapkido training to realize if it is going to suit my needs in combat. Lets take same very basic points of emphasis from my TKD class. a) no shoes allowed in class b) bowing c) 90% of the class is done in a solo manner, i.e., basics with no partner, forms with no partner. Then we get into the problem with sparring and one-steps: one attack, and then a pre-planned defense for one-steps, and sparring is rules based, semi-contact, no kicks below the belt, no hand techniques to the head. So, in my years of TKD training, I can see holes that aren't helping me become a better fighter when it comes to self-defense. Which will benefit me more at this point in my training, continuing to refine my stepping punch in a front stance, or working some jabs and crosses with a moving partner holding pads, who also throws out a punch I have to defend? Or, a pre-planned one-step defense against a stepping punch thrown from a "bad guy" standing in a front stance and down block, rather than a scenario based "one-step" in which the "bad guy" is talking crap, getting animated, and then attacks or is deterred by some verbal judo? So, as you can see, it isn't too difficult to find issues in traditional styles. These are just examples from my TKD training, and will not be conducive to all traditional styles. All I'm saying is that if you analyze what you are doing, you can take a good honest look and see what and where a shift in training will be beneficial to students. Solid post!! The practitioner MUST evolve because without the practitioner evolving, the art's stagnate. We do the art, but the art doesn't do us because the art is nothing more than a vehicle, and in that, we're the transmission of said art!! A few things here... bushido_man96, you're right in that any defense training doesn't need to be traditional in its background. I would just like to point out that many of the great Karate / traditional MAs of the past (in 1800's through early modern era) were LEOs (Osensei Nagamine being one of them). They used their traditional Karate / MA techniques and applied them in practical, situational ways. To address it in a different way, learning self-defense / defense techniques is akin to learning how to use different tools, yes? We often say that the hand-to-hand techniques in MA are just tools, just like any other weapon. Well, knives and clubs are considered some of the oldest / traditional tools / weapons of humankind, and we still use them to this day. LEOs have tactical batons; what are tactical batons other than modern clubs? Aside from differences in the physical manufacture, what has really changed in their applied use? How about knives / tactical knives? Same with the human body and learning to use it as a weapon / tool. A fist is a fist, elbow an elbow, knee a knee, and so on. Whether the development of these tools is based upon "traditional" arts (like sensei8 said: simply vehicles to communicate said tool development) or modern tactics, what matters is how these tools are applied.... I think you were hitting on this somewhat in the last paragraph of your post (which was good and meaty ). ...which segues into addressing your other points (about your TKD / traditional MA experience), as well as the MA evolution discussion in general. As sensei8 mentioned, the practitioner is the one who evolves and that the MA art is the transmission / communication of said art / evolution. However, I would extrapolate this beyond a bit...(uh-oh here I go again lol...) IMHO, in order for a practitioner / MA art to have growth, adaptation, evolution, etc, a practitioner / MA art must have competent teachers / instructors to impart the MA art. A competent MA instructor will know the practical use of any technique taught to students. This means bunkai/oyo must be taught / learned; and, not just any bunkai/oyo, but those that have real, practical street applications. This also means kihon, one/multi-step, kumite, etc must have real, practical street applications. Essentially, real, practical street applications = modern situational applications. On one hand, this doesn't automatically mean that traditional bunkai/oyo don't have real, practical street applications. Back to what I said above, a fist is a fist, an elbow an elbow; they can only move / function in so many ways. If, after maneuvering / positioning / defending correctly, I use a gyaku zuki on an assailant in front of me, and at the same time, use my chambering arm as a hiji ate (elbow smash / strike) to his buddy on my flank, that traditional use is still applicable. On the other hand, it's the situational application that must change. As in, some techniques may be considered obsolete (IMHO) because their situational / historic use no longer has any bearing in modern society. For instance, let's look at the flying side kick. We've heard of the legend about it being "originally used" to dismount horse riders; I'm not sure I buy into it (my physics / engineering mind tells me not to), but for sake of discussion, let's say it's true. In this case, what modern street application is there for a traditional tool that was supposedly used to dismount horse riders? Not much. We don't use traditional pole arms anymore, either (imagine LEOs showing up to a SWAT situation with pikes or halberds...weird...). Still, that's not to say that a technique with an obsolete bunkai/oyo shouldn't be learned or has no use. One, learning something like a flying side kick (the argument for / against its practical use aside) can help a practitioner develop better balance, targeting, body center control, etc. Two, they're fun. Never discount that. Just remember what the move is for, what it's application is. If a competent instructor tells his / her students that "we only learn this move for training purposes" or "for fun", then students know up front it may or may not have a modern use. Three, learning obsolete techniques/bunkai/oyo for preservation of the art is OK, too. As long as the students know up front that a given technique is only for the art, and doesn't have a known modern use, then they should be OK with it. Learning stuff to preserve an art is what is useless to LEOs / military because they're not training to paint portraits or stills on canvas. So, it's all dependent upon a competent instructor teaching practitioners / students techniques supported by proper bunkai/oyo, in turn supported by proper situational training (kumite, partner drills, bag work, etc...), which in turn gives a practitioner what's necessary to grow, adapt, evolve... *takes a breath* Solid post!!

I must evolve first!! Other wise, there is no art; it's a sentence without an exclamaton point. Imho

Looking back over your own MA journey, you can easily see there's one MAist that rises above any other MAist in your eyes. You admire this one person more than any other. THis MAist has helped mold you, directly/indirectly, into the MAist that you are today. If I was a basketball player I might ask, Who will be the next Kobe Bryant? If I'm a golfer I might ask, Who will be the next Arnold Palmer? If I was a baseball player I might ask, Who will be the next Mariano Rivera? If I was a BJJ practitioner I might ask, Who will be the next Helio Gracie? I'm a MAist and I do ask, Who will be the next Yoshinobu Takahashi? So, in your own words... Who will be the next [fill in the blank]?

We train, we teach, we learn, we study, we seek, we discover, we exchange, and we do this and that and then some to satisfy that thirst of knowledge that will never be quenched; our tongue sweels in the journey as we try for just one drop of effective as well as palatable knowledge as if it was the one and only sustainable morsel. This to me, isn't a bad thing, no, it's a good thing, imho, just as long as that which it is that sustains you is kept within its proper content and context. Why is it that we MAists never seem to satisfy UNLESS it's provided by that one, and only that one? False instructors dot the map so much so that when one throws a glance at the map of the MA, the map appears to have riddled with measles. However, there's a cure for measles but there's no cure for the disease of false instructors. Those who can't be honest with their victimized students, let alone with themselves. We dwell amoungst the false instructors, and because of them, those true instructors that are honest across the MA board as the day is long suffer the same intolerable distrustfulness as though the true instructors of the MA were born of that same flesh, that same cloth, or that same soup as those false instructors who get richer while the MA as a whole is festered with the boils of untrust. The suspicous student-to-be glares, deservingly so, at those true MA instructors untrustfully until theirtrust is earned. I"d have it no other way!! I sincerely believe that that trust is earned by what the instructor proves both on and off the floor: Effective and unadulterated and untainted techniques. You know, a duck sounds like a duck by its fruits. A duck quacks, a duck waddles, a duck does what only a duck can do because it's a duck. Nothing more and nothing less! A false instructor will, not at first, begin to appear more and more as a duck to thier unwittingly students. By then the damage has been done, and that unfruitful time has been lost. You're questioned, you're lambasted, you're drug over a bed of hot coals until the consumer is satisfied. But, that shouldn't worry the true instructors, no, they'll welcome the 3rd degree because they've nothing to hide, but everyting to gain. But, even long after the dust has settled and the true MA instructor has been vindicated, that aproval is, at best, limited. How so? Outside of your instructor and your style and your governing body, you're not valid. Outside of that warm and fuzzy world known only to you, you're insignificant. Within Shindokan, I'm well known and respected, but outside of Shindokan, I'm nothing to sneeze about or after. That's fine with me because it is what it is and I'm not a MAist for fame and fortune. I only want to learn and grow and tearn and share to the best of my abilities. There's an untold amount of ways to market own self today. If that's what is important to that said MAist, then I say, go for it and succeed and excel in it. It's just not that important to me yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Anything and everything that might possibly validate ones pedigree as a true MAist is and can be approved by nobody... Except by that ONE instructor, except by that ONE style, and except by that ONE governing body!! Your thoughts please. *EDIT: spelling....again...sheech, I'm such a dork!!*

Here's two that might be helpful... http://www.lessonswiththemaster.com/index_files/skifsyllabus.pdf **Use the scroll-down bar at the right. You'll see ranks up to Godan** And/or... http://www.jka.or.jp/english/karate/dan_rank.html **Once at the JKA site, look to the right. You'll see kyu and dan listings. Click on the rank you're interested in and you'll see the grading prerequisites**

Cool! The family that does the MA together...stays and trains together in the MA for the long journey.

A very solid post!! Thank you for it!!

Adapt of die!! It's a simple golden rule, and in that, the MA isn't an exception. Want to teach/learn ground fighting and the like? Then get on the ground so that one can become effective!!

I'm glad that my post(s) have been helpful for you in the area of private lessons and the like. I thank you for your very kind words. We are ALL brothers and sisters in the MA, and in that, we should be helping one another to find, reach, and improve our betterment.

While I suppose that you're correct, I don't think that the Okinawan's are loosing any sleep over it nor do they give it much thought today. By the Okinawan's taking the action in the manner they did, it is a step towards improving/evolving ones betterment, both for the Japanese as well as the Okinawan's, and in that, for the world of the MA as well. Imho.

Welcome to KF!!!!!!!!!

Welcome to KF!!!!!!!!

Consult with your sensei first; that'll be the best advice that I can give you for now. Your sensei, imho, should always be your first contact. Having said that, the Bo is where I'd start. Good luck and train hard!!

I wholeheartedly concur with every post...solid posts, each one. Good luck with your desicion. Visit the school many times before deciding.

Thank you, made some good friends during the day including the 5th dan so not all bad..... Excellent!!

Very nice Bill...very nice! What's written on the left side in the red area? Master Pedro Sauer signs every belt he hands out. I sent a picture of that signature and it was digitized and embroidered onto the belt. It is an exact replica of his signature. I was very impressed with the work. Very nice!!

Kyokushin = Knockdown karate Shotokan = Not knockdown karate Are they both effective? Yes! But that's dependant on the practitioner. Is the practitioner effective when using either one. The style can be effective, but the practitioner isn't always.

Imho, the Arbitrator of that tournament shouldn't have put you in that division because while you're almost 36 years old, you're tenure of four months only qualifies you to be in the beginner/novice/4 months training division. Tournaments nowadays ask the competitors..."How long have you been training?" The tournament will then place you in the proper division. You, with 4 months of training, had no business facing anyone who had much more training, let alone a Godan [5th Dan]. A Godan has mega years, and a MAists with 4 months of training is no match for the Godan. That tournament should be ashamed of themselves. Age is not a factor of placing one into a division. No. How long one has been training IS, and is that training been consistent, or has there been a lot of time away from the MA; these are important. I'd not go to that tournament ever again because they've not asked the proper questions concerning you. Hang in there, and TRAIN HARD!!

Pads are an important part of training in any MA because they protect one from some potential serious injuries. Especially with my students and there safety is paramount. I use them still, and that's to make sure that my students are safe, however, I don't wear them when I'm training with fellow Shindokanists that are Rokudan and above. Why? Those aforementioned ranks had been with our Dai-Soke during a time when we never used pads whatsoever, not even a cup/mouthpiece. Don't want to get hit, then do something about it, and that's how we trained back then. Dai-Soke started putting pads on us when he saw the importance of safety beyond the Do. Still, those that had been with him for a long time, still didn't wear any type of pads; it was foriegn to us. Change is enivitable, and wearing pads is no exception. Greg, our Kancho, and I often will try to kill each other when sparring. That's how WE train...no pads.

One's never to old, imho, to train in the and continue in training in the MA. I'll be 56 this October and I've been doing Shindokan ever since I was 7 years old. The saying goes..."You're only as old as you feel!" I think this is an honest statement of encouragement for anyone, not just MAists. Are you feeling too old or just out of shape? Either way, age, imho, is what it is and nothing can be done about it. Being out of shape, well, execise is a wonderful thing all across the board. Now...TRAIN your heart out!!

I've dabbled in yoga when I was much younger. When I say dabbled, I mean, I tried it out for a short period, and then said, "Hey, that's cool, but just not my cup of tea!" I believe it's a beneficial thing to do, and to add into ones MA training, but, for me, it wasn't and still isn't part of my MA training.

Can you tell me is a Chi Sao helpful for Karate championship because right now I am looking for a technique which helps me to warm up before the karate match. If some other technique, please specify. Thank you!!! I believe that it does, and it will help because Chi Sao can, and does, help practitioners learn to embrace close range techniques. Many little things come into play when training Chi Sao, i.e., footwork, transitional shifts, deflections, directings, traps, arrests, checks, penetrations to name just a few.