sensei8

Welcome to KF!!!!!!!!!

Congrats...feels good, huh!?!

Imho, There's no use in getting angry with said McDojo's because they'll be here until a law is passed that will end things that make them McDojo's. The banner in the window is just a marketing tool that will or will not attract perspective new students. Customers are dumber than a rock! They know what they want, and they know how to ask questions, and they know how to come to a decision. However, some will fall prey to that marketing tool; can't stop it's potential drawing power; that's why marketing tools are just that...tools to draw the customer through the front door. Trial lessons can pour mud all over their first impressions. First impressions, aka, proof is on the floor, can either win students or lose students. Not all customers/students will see the red flags until it's too late, if they see them at all. You've received some pretty good advice, imho, before my post here. Just relax, do your training and try to not let McDojo's and the like ruin your MA betterment. Dai-Soke told us to..."Concentrate on YOUR training, and don't worry about things that you can't change!!" In that, I got this...Worry about yourself, and don't worry about everyone else!! I understand the frustration, believe me. I've no use for McDojo's and the like, but, the only thing I can do is worry about my students and my dojo. So, I can rest my head without any worries when I go to bed, not quite so sure that McDojo owners can say the same thing. Let them be what they are!! All I seem to do is just shake my head in disbelief and feel for McDojo students. Hopefully, one day, one a McDojo student will walk into my dojo or yours, and have a "Aha" moment, and breathe a sigh of relief, and hopefully they'll join your dojo or mine or someone else's solid school of the MA.

First of all...Happy 13th Birthday karateforums.com, and many, many more!! Thank you Patrick for all that you've done for KF, KF members, and for the KF staff; past, present, as well as the future, which looks pretty bright!! I'd like to echo everything wholeheartedly that Patrick has mentioned in his OP. We've a great community; that's second to none...I sincerely believe that with all of my heart, mind, and soul.

Great posts, all, thank you!! In my OP, the context of what I'm trying to get at is this... To teach techniques that are "deadly", therefore, are aimed to cause death to children/kids is the responsibility of the CI/Sensei in the dojo, and having said that, that accountability belongs to the CI/Sensei. Outside of the dojo, that accountability belongs to the parent(s)/guardian(s). When teaching any technique to children/kids, I'm reminded that they're just that: CHILDREN/KIDS! In that, I don't teach them any technique by telling them... "If you do a certain technique(s) this and/or that way, you'll cause death!" No, I teach them how to properly execute said technique(s) without emphasizing any possible medical ramification(s). That's for someone else to teach, and I'm not that person. I don't even entertain that with adults because I'm not there to teach my students techniques that might cause death. I'm there to teach them how to be effective with what they're learning or have learnt outside of how to cause death to anyone. I know I can, with what I've been taught, cause death to my attacker IF I CHOOSE TO, but Dai-Soke made it perfectly clear to all of us in Shindokan... "If you want to learn how to kill, and not karate-do, then you've no right being here!! Go now!!" But with the quote above, the closest to deliberately teaching "deadly" techniques to any of my students is by doing just what's in said quote above. I want to teach them the essence of Ikken Hisatsu WITHOUT teaching them how to kill. Be deadly accurate and so on and so forth!! At the end of any testing cycle, I've never asked... "With what you know, can you kill?" NO! Instead I ask... "With what you know, are you effective?" To answer this for myself, I say, "Yes, I am, but, I can always be more effective, but, that will take time. Until that time arrives, I will be the guardian of my MA betterment! That too, will take time." If a CI/Sensei is telling their students, no matter the age that this and that can cause death, then, IMHO, that CI/Sensei is irresponsible across the board because, IMHO, while "deadly" techniques MIGHT be a by-product of any said MA technique(s), that should be the last thing that one wants to learn from the MA. Again, this is only MY opinion!!

No matter the karate style chosen, if at all, for the Olympics, I seriously doubt that kata would be included because, for the layperson, kata isn't as fun as watching two people trying to knock each others block off, imho. For the layperson, kata can be as exciting to watch as watching grass grow.

Should we or shouldn't we teach kids "deadly" techniques?? Well, with the hope that the word "deadly" might be more understood, let me post the definition as it's found in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary... dead·ly (adjective) \ˈded-lē\ : causing or able to cause death : extremely accurate and effective : extreme or complete [dead·li·er dead·li·est] Full Definition of DEADLY 1 : likely to cause or capable of producing death 2 a : aiming to kill or destroy : implacable b : highly effective c : unerring d : marked by determination or extreme seriousness 3 a : tending to deprive of force or vitality b : suggestive of death especially in dullness or lack of animation 4 : very great : extreme After looking at the dictionary definition(s), I've not changed my mind: I don't teach kids [and adults] "Deadly" techniques? No!! What I teach them can be found in this provided definition... ** : extremely accurate and effective As well as... **b : highly effective **c : unerring **d : marked by determination or extreme seriousness Having said that, even the most basic technique(s) have the possibility of being "deadly" in the hands of my students, no matter the age, and/or rank, and/or depth of knowledge/experience. A basic reverse punch, for example, to the face can cause many things. Hopefully, what's concluded is the attack to the alleged victim of said attacker without ambiguity and/or reservation. I teach kids to be extremely accurate with their intended technique; execution of said technique with a purpose. Not to just flail around and hope that the student finds its intended target. No. But, to be purposeful in their techniques because it serves no purpose to teach any techniques if the student isn't going to be accurate. Not close; but deadly on target. I teach kids to be extremely effective with their intended technique; movements applied are nothing more than it's intended effect. If not so, then why even waste the energy to learn how to defend oneself, other than with effective means. With that sense of deliberate intentions that can't be confused with an ineffective movement aimed to do absolutely nothing. MA techniques don't have to reside in the halls of the "deadly" MA techniques! No! More important, imho, is that creating and executing "deadly" techniques that end life aren't possible if one can't be highly effective, unerringly accurate, marked by determination, or extreme seriousness in even the most basic technique(s). I don't have to teach kids such "deadly" techniques that have no other ending result except death!! In that, kids/adults don't have to learn "deadly" MA techniques to be effective.

Nice pictures, thank you for sharing them!! I'd smile that big too if I were you...way to go!!

Interesting interpretations.

Congrats to the tournament!! As far as the picture links, I can't seem to view them.

When I was a JBB, I was practicing flying side kicks in the back yard behind the garage. Well, it wasn't my fault when my right foot went right through the wall of the garage. It was either put my foot through the garage wall or land on my dog; I choose the garage wall. Mom wasn't too happy, but she saw my options weren't all to favorable. I'm sure my dog, Bullet, was relieved with my choices. edit: Spelling errors

Are you referring to how said Shogo titles are being misused or the usage of said titles period? If it's the former and not the latter, I wholeheartedly agree. If it's the latter, then I disagree. Why? Our Soke was born and raised in Okinawa, as so was our Dai-Soke. Soke wrote our By-Laws and Densho scrolls shortly before they both came to USA, which thereafter, the SKKA was founded. Soke, as written in the aforementioned documents, used Shogo titles and the like as they became appropriate, still, they were rare. Soke and Dai-Soke taught us all how to properly use said titles both in the written and spoken venue's, and they did that because we represented them. Nothing worse than having a dolt to represent you inappropriately!!

Oh ya-one of the biggest problems and reddest flags their is!!!! Unfortunately this is way too common in dojos today!!! I wholeheartedly agree, as well. Fast tracking to me is guaranteeing rank; BAD!!

Solid post!!

Same thing...billing and/or marketing. I've eliminated all forms of the middle-man because the money I'd pay for their services, I could've used that money for something much more beneficial to the dojo and/or the student body. As far as the grass roots, possibly you can have students, family, and friends help you with the marketing. That includes, developing the market tools as needed yourself with their help, and then distribute said items when they'd be most advantageous for you. My advice, walk away from the middle-man as often as possible.

Yes...yes...yes!! Solid post!!

Alex, Great reply!! Thanks for it!! Do you think that, in the case of LEO's, their applications skill-sets aren't "suited to her environment" because of all the rules, regulations, and the like within said LEO's department?? Rules and regulations and the like can be debilitating right off the bat, imho. Why? Said rules and regulations are there for all concerned; they must be in set and they must be enforced. Everything a LEO does is watched under a microscope for solid reasons. But, if an LEO used what they were taught to use in their said MA style, they'd run the risk of sharing same said cell with the bad guy they just arrested. A LEO's IA department would at least investigate how said LEO arrested said bad guy after said bad guy filed a official complaint(s) against said arresting LEO. I'd not possibly be able to separate what I learned from Shindokan in any given situation if I was a LEO, and that's because my actions would be automatic off the billion hours of muscle memory engrained in me. However, I'd be weighted down, I suppose, if I had to fulfill my sworn duties within the policies set forth by said department, as well as within the governing laws of the land. See, that would be the fault of the MMA practitioners fault for spending time doing Iaido and tai chi or BJJ and MT INSTEAD of spending time doing MMA!! The fault here still lies in the hands of the practitioner, and not the MA style, imho!! No they're not, and for good reasons! It only, imho, matters when the practitioner chooses the inappropriate style for said situation, hence, it's the practitioner fault and not the fault of the art/style!! The art/style is just a thing. The practitioner CHOOSES the appropriate thing, and once said thing is chosen, well, the practitioner, and I mean the practitioner better know how to make it effective. Not vise versa!!

Solid OP!! Great topic, Alex!! Yes, we do run the risk of being victims of our own success While you don't completely buy into the "it's the artist not the art" argument for determining the effectiveness of said MA, it is, imho, just that. Let's look at BJJ! Is it the style of BJJ's fault or is it the fault of the practitioner why said technique(s) didn't work as well as it did with other BJJ practitioners? If a practitioner of BJJ can't perform a certain BJJ technique as well as you can, then is that the fault of the style: BJJ, in this case? I'd believe faster that the fault lies into the practitioner and NOT BJJ. BJJ is a proven effective means; solid as the day is long!! If I can execute said technique(s) within the Shindokan syllabus effectively, however, another Shindokan practitioner can't, yet said technique(s) is a proven effective means, then how can that be the fault of the style? I don't think that it is! In that, it's the fault of the practitioner! This could be for myriad of reasons; experience and knowledge might be in the forefront of the many possible reasons. When you start believing in your own press over the application!! So much so that the core of the application starts to waffle away towards impossibilities and unrealistic ends of said applications means. When "you" become more important than the application and/or when "you" become more important than the style and/or when "you" become more important than any other MA practitioner on Earth...that's when any and all translations become muddled and waffled away. I believe actions like this turn off the most dedicated proponent of said style or of said application or of said methodology/ideology. Keep it real, keep it simple, and keep it effective. Yes it does. Anything that takes the core element away from any said effective application, no matter where it came from, is detrimental to the style and to the practitioner and to the student body. When the light is shown bright for all practitioners to see clearly without any ambiguity and/or reservation one day, and then over some time, the aforementioned bright light starts to dim, no matter how much; it becomes quite detrimental across the board. For the moment, let's forget about the larger group. The style is bigger than the person, however, the person is also bigger than the style, imho. Content and context are important to know which is more important at the right time. I'd be more worried about the one or the few. Either can infect the larger group so much so that progress is halted, and even more so, digresses starts to settle in, and start becoming cancerous to the student body; something risks being cut-off for the survival of the many. Yes, the larger group can be infected by the actions and/or the inactions of the one and/or the few practitioners. So, I'd be more careful about the small, because while they be small, they can carry a large impact.

Yes...that was right on the money. Anything less than that, time to find another CI, imho.

Welcome to KF; glad that you're here!!

I've never used them, nor have I ever used any billing service. Why? I've eliminated the middle man entirely from my life. I can do what they say they can do much better than they can ever imagine: and I'm free!! I don't want to spend unnecessarily, and imho, having a billing service is taking away from the bottom line. Besides, I don't want to clutter up my P&L statement, and I've learned a long time ago that the less hands that are dipping into my P&L, the far better, and healthier my dojo's finance will be. Beyond that, I've never used contract, and it seems that billing services and contracts work hand in hand. I might be misunderstanding in my understanding about these type of things, but, I don't use either, nonetheless. And what your OP's first paragraph speaks about is to be expected, imho. Why? They promise the world, but they seem to only deliver the part of the world that's inhabitable, especially from the P&L side of the world. The BBB gives everyone an A+ rating providing that said member has paid their dues: their financial dues to the BBB. Complaints are unavoidable! Why? You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time!! I've operated my own dojo since 1977, and I've done it successfully without the middle man and/or the like. Managing the dojo's needs and wants must be done on a tight rope, so to speak, in order to keep the doors open longer than a season. Being proactive with ones dojo's finances, imho, begins by eliminating any and all subjective middle man. As simple as this sounds, imho, if one can manage their own personal finances by oneself, and do it successfully month and month, and year after year, then one can easily manage their dojo finances themselves without any type of middle man in the equation. What works for one isn't for others, billing services and the like included. I don't fault those that use billing services, it's just not my cup of tea; leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Ok, back to my corner I go!!

Absolutely... Whenever training with the masters above me (Okinawans and Westerners, when they're able to visit the U.S.), they never ask about my rank. They ask, "How long have you trained?" And when I tell them, they always respond with, "Show me." YES!! Then I'll add...my favorite saying...Proof is on the floor!!

Accountability and respect is lacking in visiting instructor in said approach. Especially when telling the students that their wrong in what they've been taught. I would've stopped the visiting instructor, and asked him to leave immediately!! Want to show another way that's effective? Fine!! But, if you want to ridicule our methodology and ideology, and do it right in front of me towards my students!? NO!! Time for you to leave!! The sooner, the better!! A way is just that...A WAY!! Not the only way!!