sensei8

Interesting suggestion.... Unfortunately for your argument I used to be a prison guard. I've got some insight for you- being a felon or a "bad dude" doesn't instill magical fighting prowess. In fact if you want to see some interesting examples you can even look up felony fights on YouTube. There was one where a modestly trained mma fighter in shad smith fought a guy who "just didn't care" because he was "crazy." As you would have guessed, shad toyed with the guy, because he's a pro fighter. You're failing to justify any arguments you make and are trying to appeal to fantasies "These guys MUST be crazy killers because they're in PRISON" I fail to see the correlation between being a criminal and being a skilled fighter. Watch those felony fights. Those guys are- you guessed it- former felons. You'll see just how "not professional" they are.... So you are saying that, the best fighters are cage fighters due to practicing resistance training with each other; whereas traditional martial artists are below them in every way, skill wise due to this reason?I know that this question isn't directed to me. I apologize for my perked up ears on the bold type above... I'm a traditional MAist, and I'm not below anyone; I can not, and I will not subscribe to that, nor will my resolve subscribe to that either. Shindokan is all about resistance training from day one. That's the point I'm trying to make... Which is what? So I can better understand your point. Shindokan's resistance training, as I've mentioned here at KF often times, is barbaric, at best. Our resistance training is not for everyone due to the way that we teach it to our students; raw as raw can be, without any ambiguity whatsoever. Everything is expected on both sides of the resistance. Both sides, as the command of the CI, resist each other from the onslaught of the starting point of the drill. I hold your right wrist, with my left hand...what happens after that is a barbaric form of tug-of-war, in which, the fights not over until a deciding winner has emerged. With Shindokan, it's not the fight, but the escape to freedom, that's most desired. In that, if you escape from me, and you do not flee when you had the chance, then the fight continues. The battle of resolve begins and ends with heart!! Toy with me during resistance training, I'll guarantee you that you'll not do that again. One step and so on are fine tools, but with the addition of effective as well as believable resistance training, discoveries are in the horizon. Just short of stomping a mud hole in you, our method is cruel and unapologetic, but for a reason, and not for a season. Shindokan is traditional, and we're below no style...no practitioner!!

"Better" is an illusion, at best; an opinion. For something to be "better", it can not have an equal. Bruce, himself, puts it better than me. with this... "I personally do not believe in the word style. Why? Because, unless there are human beings with three arms and four legs, unless we have another group of human beings that are structurally different from us, there can be no different style of fighting.” Imho!!

Then I suppose that every style of the MA has died with its founder as well?!?

Interesting suggestion.... Unfortunately for your argument I used to be a prison guard. I've got some insight for you- being a felon or a "bad dude" doesn't instill magical fighting prowess. In fact if you want to see some interesting examples you can even look up felony fights on YouTube. There was one where a modestly trained mma fighter in shad smith fought a guy who "just didn't care" because he was "crazy." As you would have guessed, shad toyed with the guy, because he's a pro fighter. You're failing to justify any arguments you make and are trying to appeal to fantasies "These guys MUST be crazy killers because they're in PRISON" I fail to see the correlation between being a criminal and being a skilled fighter. Watch those felony fights. Those guys are- you guessed it- former felons. You'll see just how "not professional" they are.... So you are saying that, the best fighters are cage fighters due to practicing resistance training with each other; whereas traditional martial artists are below them in every way, skill wise due to this reason?I know that this question isn't directed to me. I apologize for my perked up ears on the bold type above... I'm a traditional MAist, and I'm not below anyone; I can not, and I will not subscribe to that, nor will my resolve subscribe to that either. Shindokan is all about resistance training from day one.

That's one of the reasons why I keep my hair cut very short; can't pull what one can't latch upon.

To the bold type above... ...Or it could be viewed as a means of complimenting the original; depending on how ones viewpoints in this regards are taken. I'm not loyal to my core style, Shindokan, at all. Why?? Because while it's effective across the board, imho, that effectiveness, like in every MA style known to mankind, is limited. Hence, the creation of styles, and the desire to cross train in other styles of the MA.

Tradition is part of the human condition; people don't usually like change.There is a tug of war of sorts with tradition and change. Very good points to consider singularity6 Martial arts is no exception to the complexities of tradition and changing with the times. Tradition is usually trying to hold on to things that are good things or habits; passed on from one generation to the next. Change is inevitable but too quickly is just as bad as stuck too deeply in tradition. The Chinese deal with this in, how will the decisions today (change) effect the future generations. Change for today might be a temporary good but bad in the future; very difficult to reverse once set in motion. No matter how one slices it, change, as you've said, is inevitable; time is a beast that takes no prisoners. And whenever that inevitable change occurs, one had better decide which side of the equation that one want to end up on. And once that change occurs, go with it or run the high risk of being left behind.

I most assuredly concur with Brian's assessment through and through.

Can't excel at the MA if one doesn't have fun while training; might as well not even pursue it at any level. And in a way, as the owner and CI, I'm not only doing the MA for fun, but I'm also doing the MA for money; dojo/retail is there to make a profit at the end of the day. NO!! A MAist is a MAist!! No! While a pro-fighter might have an edge, that edge can be dulled forthwith at any moment; can't win every time, and that right there, is where the rubber meets the road in the human factor that we all share...from time to time. Interesting how you worded that question. Any training is worth doing is worth doing it right. In one way or another, that sadistic streak is in all of us, and not just in MAists. That too, is an interesting wording of a question. It's proper to learn how to defend oneself effectively, and to do that...guess what?? My attacker's going to get hurt, even if it's only in the slightest. Comes with the territory. I can be the most violent person that you can ever meet whenever I have to defend myself; I don't apologize for that because all's fair in love and war. Imho!!

I'm not in law enforcement, nor am I in physical education directly. However, I do run both a MA governing body, as well as a dojo. Abeit, my MA training does compliment what I do for a living, I suppose.

That was then, so short lived... ~Kaicho of the SKKA/Hombu ~Owner and CI of the Kyuodan Dojo

TKD was my first cross training, and the thing that sticks out the most that I learned outside of Shindokan is the kicking arsenal of TKD. You see, Shindokan is 85% hands, 15% feet, and our kicks are no higher than the stomach, moreover, our kicks are primarily for checking and directing/redirecting. In my Weekend Warrior days, I came up against some solid kicks mainly from the TKD practitioners. Change-up roundhouse kicks...blew my mind. Axe kicks...blew my mind even more so...Jump spinning back kick...blew my mind into the next world. Shortly thereafter my initiation against a TKD competitor, I felt the best way to understand the competition is to learn their core. And that's what I did. Not to toot my own horn, I'm a solid kicker...and that drove Soke and Dai-Soke absolutely insane to the Nth degree. Was it fun driving them crazy? It seems that it would be. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe...ah...yes it was; I seemed to live for the moments.

JKD, imho, will never die because it's been to much ingrained into the MA society. For JKD to die...interest towards JKD must no longer be of interest for the entire world.

TKD was my first cross training, and the thing that sticks out the most that I learned outside of Shindokan is the kicking arsenal of TKD. You see, Shindokan is 85% hands, 15% feet, and our kicks are no higher than the stomach, moreover, our kicks are primarily for checking and directing/redirecting. In my Weekend Warrior days, I came up against some solid kicks mainly from the TKD practitioners. Change-up roundhouse kicks...blew my mind. Axe kicks...blew my mind even more so...Jump spinning back kick...blew my mind into the next world. Shortly thereafter my initiation against a TKD competitor, I felt the best way to understand the competition is to learn their core. And that's what I did. Not to toot my own horn, I'm a solid kicker...and that drove Soke and Dai-Soke absolutely insane to the Nth degree.

I take child students at the age of 4; and I don't apologize for it. My dojo...my rules...my P&L's Bottom Line. Our Soke's rule was that the child had to be in the first grade, as a minimum.

Not even in the slightest, whatsoever!! Not yesterday, not today, and not tomorrow. The MMA craze is the rage on the page nowadays, and there's nothing I can ever say that will convince the proponents of the MMA, and especially MMA fans. No matter the style of the MA, I believe that this idiom fits well... “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”~John Lydgate Say what you want to say, whomever you are, I don't give a bent pin what's in the mind of those who have already written off traditional MA. Why?? Because it just isn't that important.

Welcome to KF, JazzKicker; glad that you're here!!

Thanks, LLLEARNER!!

Yes I do; it goes down to bearings. One has them, while the other doesn't!! A "Karate Master" can spot a fake "Karate CI" faster than a speeding bullet...faster than a locomotive. How?? You already know what I'm about to say here... Proof is on the floor!! https://www.karateforums.com/proof-is-on-the-floor-vt36016.html?highlight=proof https://www.karateforums.com/proof-is-on-the-floor-an-addendum-vt41784.html?highlight=proof

Solid post!! I simply, easy for me to say, turn the audience off; they have no bearings. Now, I've not always been like that, especially when I was a kid. As I grew up, I saw the audience for who they were to me...unimportant. I can also say that it has helped me a lot to turn the audience off at will because I'm on the floor quite a lot teaching IN FRONT OF PEOPLE, both students and visitors, in all sizes of classes/venues. Teaching for as long as I've been, has numbed me to the presence of any audience type. So, yeah, teach for a while, and the audience factor is pretty much non-existent.

The SKKA does have it's requirements. However, the CI has the final discretion. No, not even in the slightest am I ok with that. Crawl...walk...run, in that order, and it's that way for a very good reason(s).

I, too, hear what you're saying, as well, Brian; through and through. And you're absolutely correct when you say that us instructors would never encourage our female students to engage male students in combat. However, I'd not discourage my female students to engage a male student in combat if that's what they wanted to do of their own volition. But to even a small point, hasn't rules and regulations made it whereas the females being separate from males made it the reality that it is no matter the venue. There's the weight divisions, for example, rules and regulations that have made it in the minds of human endeavors that a lightweight can't beat a heavyweight. So much so, that doubts are automatically raised because of those who are proponents for weight divisions, no matter the venue. Women aren't in many professional sports, like the MLB, for example, because it's been routed as a man's game; no women allowed mindset. And for some of those professional sports, I might be willing to agree...maybe. Is the human race slightly prejudice against women because they're women?!? I mean, there seems to be a very limited equality towards women in many, many sport venues. The MA world is not exception.

I wholeheartedly agree!! What kind of CI would I be if I didn't motivate my Student Body that they can, and will get better at it on a daily basis?!?! With every failure, comes immeasurable success on and off the floor, and every success overshadows that failure as though it hadn't occurred as only a learning opportunity. 7 times down; 8 times up!!

Thanks, Brian. You'd do just fine in a 5K, Brian!!

No one here is saying that. UFC is for elite fighters. And elite females are always going to struggle against elite males. As they do with every other sporting activity. Self defense or general fighting is a different thing. I think you are confusing a few things here, Bob. I think the vast majority of us as Martial Artists or MA Instructors are teaching our students to learn how to defend themselves, which I not necessarily the same as winning a fight. Self-defense = survival. Getting out of a situation in which one had to defend oneself from an attacker has nothing to do with wins and losses. We teach our male and female students to attack directly to vulnerable, vital targets quickly and powerfully in order to facilitate what???....to facilitate the chance to get away, get safe, and call the authorities. Not to "win" or "defeat" the opponent in a "fair" contest. I do see the point you are getting at, Bob, but I think its an entirely different point you are thinking of. You might be right, Brian...I might be confusing a few things here. Whenever I read it over and over again that women, especially women MAists don't stand a chance against a man, MAist or not, for various reasons, and some of those opinions have stemmed from right here at KF, and not just within this thread, I believe that my confusion is warranted, but my confusion is more directed towards those who's opinions write women off. Has any male MAist here ever been bested by a female MAist, ever?? Well, I have, and I'm no pushover whatsoever by any means. I've not learned the MA to win contests, nor have my students; albeit, to survive an attack. And to me as well as my students, and how I've/they've been taught the MA, and how my students have learned the MA from me, is that an attack is an attack, nor matter the venue, is taken seriously.