sensei8

There's nothing wrong, imho, with instructors teaching, and emphasizing stances found in Kata. After all, a MAist is learning the MA. Who's to say that I won't or haven't used Hangetsu Dachi [Half Moon] in real life situation(s); it's a well rooted stance...works well in our brand of Tuite and Close Ranges. A situation might warrant the use of it, after all, as long as I've been on the floor, aren't every stance that I've ever learned natural for me to call upon automatically, and if I can borrow a gem of a saying from Bruce Lee...I do not whatever, it does it all by itself?!?

Thank you, skullsplitter, for the update. Glad that progress is being made by her. Once a MAist, always a MAist, and it's deeply moved me how she still wants to train and get to class..very admirable!! She and her family remain in my prayers!!

The basis? Fair enough!! The MA, and all that it represents, can do without all of the pageantry that exists nowadays. Somewhere, in all of that pageantry, teaching has to rear up its nervous head, and make itself accountable. Until the teaching element finally does make itself accountable, the pageantry, in the hopes that it can cleverly disguise itself, will take center stage. On that center stage, teaching has taken the backseat, in which the necessary is lost in the unnecessary. The summation of "why" is to the summation of "because"!! But, the way you say it makes it sound as if all those who practice traditional aspects are hiding behind them and using them because of a negative intent rather then some believing they are practicing icing ways of not only being respectful, but also maintaining a particular structure. I do understand for some this is true but surly not all! As sure as I'm sitting here, typing this post, no, not all hide behind the pageantry; this I willingly surrender to that hypothesis. Albeit, I fear that the number of those who depend on the pageantry are growing in leaps and bounds; self is more important than the knowledge and experience. Imho!!

The basis? Fair enough!! The MA, and all that it represents, can do without all of the pageantry that exists nowadays. Somewhere, in all of that pageantry, teaching has to rear up its nervous head, and make itself accountable. Until the teaching element finally does make itself accountable, the pageantry, in the hopes that it can cleverly disguise itself, will take center stage. On that center stage, teaching has taken the backseat, in which the necessary is lost in the unnecessary. The summation of "why" is to the summation of "because"!!

I like the concept. The problem with this is whether they answer truthfully. I personally think that you can judge a students intentions based on how they conduct themselves in class. Those looking for the glitz and accolades are usually the students that are in it for the belt. If winning trophies is more important than learning, again a pretty good indication. You get my point. I wonder what would happen if you asked them - if I give you this black belt but you could never return to class would you still want it? It would be interesting to see how many would take you up on the belt. To the bold type above... What scares me the most is that I believe that the number of people nowadays would take the black belt, knowing very well the circumstances. Pray I'm dead wrong with my suspicious thoughts.

The deep stances are there to help give maximum power to techniques. The way I look at it, the deep and rooted stance is for when you’re delivering the “killing blow” and not for while you’re moving around. This is what I meant earlier when I said the important part is getting into that stance and strike, not being there. If that makes sense, anyway. Here’s a great way to assess if deep stances are worth it... If you have a punching bag or access to one it’ll become readily apparent. While in a normal fighting stance, move around and hit the bag as hard as you can. Make sure you’re light on your feet. Then do the same without staying light on your feet, but in a natural stance. Then do the same, only moving forward in a deep karate stance of your choice. Feel the difference? It’s even more apparent with kicks. If you hit a bag consistently, you’ll notice that you’re light on your feet while moving, and root down when actually striking. Try doing the same thing, only deepen your stance while striking. There’s a happy medium between deep and too deep. Speaking of that happy medium, there’s one in kata too. There’s a woman at our dojo who’s got stances that could easily be used in a textbook. They’re deep, stable, and strong. We’re envious of it. And she can easily move in them. If I tried hard enough, I could get as deep as she does, and I have once or twice. But I couldn’t get out of them to save my life, and I couldn’t deliver any power out of them. Hen she’s free-sparring and drilling, you can easily see her hit those stances when she hits hard, but she’s not as deep as she is during kihon and kata. If you look at the others sparring, you’ll see the same thing, but not as apparent. But those stances are there for a second or so while the power punch or kick is being thrown; we don’t walk around in them. As my CI has said many times - the deep stances are great so long as you can quickly get into and out of them. If you can’t, you’re going too deep. Practicing them in kata and kihon will help them naturally get deeper and help you get into and out of them easier. They’re not there for when you’re moving around during kumite; they’re there for when you’re throwing a powerful shot. My interpretation: They’re part of that finishing move. But you need to be able to get into it and out of it without hesitation, otherwise you’ll be a glorified punching bag. You may be able to ingrain the Karate reverse punch from something that resembles the clasical kata stance ( I advice against it though due to the non existent guard while punching=,) but in no way would it hold true for l stance, for an example. It is hardly a natural position to take in a fight. What is “I stance?” As for the chambered hand, if it’s at your side like in kata, there should be something in it, like your opponent’ hand, arm, etc. See this thread... https://www.karateforums.com/hikite-just-a-hand-on-the-hip-vt51004.html I was referring to this stance, which nobody would take in any no holds barred fight: http://www.dklsltd.com/shotokankarateunion_sku_news/img/back-stance.jpg Aka... Kokutsu dachi Aka back stance, aka L-stance Aka...yes indeed!

Welcome to KF, mkdaggy; glad that you're here!!

To the bold type above... I agree!! IF WARRANTED!! I can show and receive respect without all of the pageantry!! The pageantry seems to fuel the egos; I'm done with all of that.

The deep stances are there to help give maximum power to techniques. The way I look at it, the deep and rooted stance is for when you’re delivering the “killing blow” and not for while you’re moving around. This is what I meant earlier when I said the important part is getting into that stance and strike, not being there. If that makes sense, anyway. Here’s a great way to assess if deep stances are worth it... If you have a punching bag or access to one it’ll become readily apparent. While in a normal fighting stance, move around and hit the bag as hard as you can. Make sure you’re light on your feet. Then do the same without staying light on your feet, but in a natural stance. Then do the same, only moving forward in a deep karate stance of your choice. Feel the difference? It’s even more apparent with kicks. If you hit a bag consistently, you’ll notice that you’re light on your feet while moving, and root down when actually striking. Try doing the same thing, only deepen your stance while striking. There’s a happy medium between deep and too deep. Speaking of that happy medium, there’s one in kata too. There’s a woman at our dojo who’s got stances that could easily be used in a textbook. They’re deep, stable, and strong. We’re envious of it. And she can easily move in them. If I tried hard enough, I could get as deep as she does, and I have once or twice. But I couldn’t get out of them to save my life, and I couldn’t deliver any power out of them. Hen she’s free-sparring and drilling, you can easily see her hit those stances when she hits hard, but she’s not as deep as she is during kihon and kata. If you look at the others sparring, you’ll see the same thing, but not as apparent. But those stances are there for a second or so while the power punch or kick is being thrown; we don’t walk around in them. As my CI has said many times - the deep stances are great so long as you can quickly get into and out of them. If you can’t, you’re going too deep. Practicing them in kata and kihon will help them naturally get deeper and help you get into and out of them easier. They’re not there for when you’re moving around during kumite; they’re there for when you’re throwing a powerful shot. My interpretation: They’re part of that finishing move. But you need to be able to get into it and out of it without hesitation, otherwise you’ll be a glorified punching bag. You may be able to ingrain the Karate reverse punch from something that resembles the clasical kata stance ( I advice against it though due to the non existent guard while punching=,) but in no way would it hold true for l stance, for an example. It is hardly a natural position to take in a fight. What is “I stance?” As for the chambered hand, if it’s at your side like in kata, there should be something in it, like your opponent’ hand, arm, etc. See this thread... https://www.karateforums.com/hikite-just-a-hand-on-the-hip-vt51004.html I was referring to this stance, which nobody would take in any no holds barred fight: http://www.dklsltd.com/shotokankarateunion_sku_news/img/back-stance.jpg Aka... Kokutsu dachi

Solid post!! I've always pushed myself much more than I should, but having that within me has benefited me throughout my entire MA journey, as I believe that you have done the same thing...you and I...we earned everything from our Sensei's wholeheartedly!!

Stances are important, to be for sure. However, they're not the end of all, just part of the whole picture. Put stances in their place before they put you in your place; beginners, and we all use to be one, tend to fall into this much easier. Thanks for this Wado Heretic...

I can appreciate what you're both saying, wholeheartedly, Alan and Brian!! Thanks!!

I think it primarily had its usage in the military for a short period of time. For those here that might be interested... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defendo

Yes, and then some!! I can relate to this topic wholeheartedly because Soke and Dai-Soke spoke very little English; they both were masters of pointing and moving us/handing us where they wanted us to move and where not to move...and a lot of grunting. Their English never really improved, even up to their passing, and they never apologized for it once!! In time, I learned to converse with them both fluently enough to not embarrass them whenever we traveled back to Okinawa, which was quite often. You learn a lot when you're submerged in the Okinawa culture with them both acting as guides and teachers, other than the MA side of them!! The closer I was in their inner circle, the more I learned!!

While Luther unleashed poised to state his pointed remark... Then this leads me to ask... Just what, if anything else, is "average"?? This answer, I can only surmise, from any KF member, might be wider than the skies, in which, there might not be one satisfying response. Is being labeled "average" a good or bad thing?? And just who, what, where, when, why, and how does this give that individual and/or group the power to pass said judgement??

Age is just a number!! Says the guy who just turned 60. What's important is that you're back on the floor; everything else is meaningless. Train hard...train well!!

Jesse's video is right on target across the board!! Start with Jesse's video, then add the jumping onto of and/or over things. Most gym's have stationary platforms to jump upon of varying heights. Remember what Jesse, in the video link you mentioned, says about jumping at the very end of his video...that, I believe, needs to stay at the front of your mind at all times.

You're absolutely correct. There's more than one way to skin a cat!! Having more in your arsenal is far better than having just one core; very limited. There's no such thing as that one core has everything; that's an illusion!! Imho!!

I have to learn what's moderation and what's not moderation, for me. This, I had better learn very soon, and I believe my last workout was on the fence of moderation. Alan, I do like the Chinese visual metaphor; thanks for that one!!

I wasn't aware that KF had a lot of old people on it...my bad!! We have... And I just turned 60 years old!!

There's not a thing wrong with Karate!! The problem lies with the CI of said dojo!! Not all black belts can teach; and many have no business trying to do so!! Methodologies and ideologies are handed down; what was solid once, has the potentiality of being weak in the hands of a CI that doesn't have the minimum of an idea what they're doing once on the floor. Some black belts have effective solid techniques, but they couldn't teach their way out of a wet bag littered with holes, if their live depended on it. Drilling is important, no matter how mundane and/or frustrating they can be. To learn how to walk, I first learned how to crawl. While I had just learned the basic fundamentals of crawling, I drilled and drilled and drilled the many aspects of crawling before I tackled something more complex...like...standing. I'll try to walk before I know how to because I want to learn the advanced stuff...like...walking because I want to, and I deserve it. I can learn standing after I attempt walking first...I know what's best. The wake up of my enthusiasm is when I fall flat on my face, have that stunned and shocked locked on my face, just seconds before I start crying out loudly enough for mom and/or dad to hear my distress. One steps are not the problem either...drilling isn't the problem either...whatever else isn't the problem either...the blame rests within the CI of the dojo. There's nothing wrong with Karate!! Karate, like anything else has to be learned, and the learning process happens in steps...not leaps and bounds...but in steps, and if I may, baby steps, at that. If the CI doesn't challenge students effectively, across the board, then students are going to fall off the wayside at an alarming rate. Don't think so! Then be that CI who doesn't challenge his/her students effectively, and see how fast the Student Body dwindles to nothingness. Don't like drilling! Then quit Karate immediately. Btw, Kumite is vitally important, as is resistance training, and they both must be done often in order for growth in the student. Guess what? These two, to name a few, Kumite and resistant training are drills as well. They're just not labeled as such. Imho!!

I've had those rare students that couldn't wear a mouthpiece. Not that there was anything wrong with the mouthpieces, it's just that in their minds, the mouthpiece caused them to feel that they were being choked. Told them, one and all, no mouthpiece, no Kumite of any type!!

LOL!! Thanks, Bulltahr!!

I agree, and that's why I wanted to see it pretty bad. Glad the family took me to see it; I was all smiles!!

Not me!! Ever since the movie, The Exorcist, I don't do so good with scary movies.