sangngak

I can see what you mean if that is going to be our definition of "Master". However is fighting the highest level we can achieve in MAs? Is there anything else we can look forward to if we stay in training for many years? I think that's why I posed this question, so we can end up, hopefully with a way of defining this part of the art. Everywhere I look in the phone book I see everyone in town seems to be either a master or grand Master or great grand master. But what do they have in common that allows them to use their titles? (Other than just ego)

I was "raised" in Kajukenbo in Honolulu in the late 50's, early 60's. I remeber one of our teachers asking us if we knew the difference in "Cat" style and "Monkey" style MAs. He said most Karate people were monkey style. Monkey see, monkey do type training. (I didn't mention Kajukenbo guys and Karate guys were always yapping at each other like this) Cat style he said was different. You can touch a cat and he'll roll over and purr etc but if you grab him with a rough intent he will unload all four paws and claws and teeth on you and won't let up until you are finished. That's how we responded to people trying to ask for trouble. That's how we were taught to fight I caught a guy one night in waikiki (Ohua St) trying to rape a girl. I walked up and told him to not do that. He jumped up and got a bit frisky, so a few minutes later he was out cold, bleeding profusely from wounds where I had pounded his head onto the curb stone, and I walked off and got a beer. Next day Emperado sent for me (How the hell he knew I had done this I'll never know) and I assumed he or his brother Joe would want me to fight them "as a lesson to me". But all he did was make me sweat awhile, then ask me to do him a favor when I went to LA the next week. A caution: if you don't have the fighting spirit of the old Kajukenbo, the Cat style, then learn to run and use that when needed. They will both work.

I've noticed over time the meaning of "Master" has seemed to me to become a bit dispersed. I'm curious what students today think a "Master" is? About 35 or so years ago I was in a foreign country and I and 2-3 other guys set up MA classes and taught. No big deal, we just taught what we knew. We moved on. Today I see a website in that country and I'm referred to as a "Master", a "GREAT Grand Master" and a "legend". This really made me stop and think. I mean, I put my pants on one leg at a time just like any other guy. About all I see I've achieved is to survive to old age, and to have had a lot of fun playing MAs over these past 51 years. ( I still get my old Gi out sometimes just to see if I can still get it on.) I never thought of myself as a "Master", rather just a guy who likes to have fun, maybe teach a little if someone needs something and so on. So how is a "Master" defined? Does it mean he can do no wrong, i.e. he's a saint of some sort? That he is perfect in all his moves? (Yeah, as if) or that he is simply the oldest living member of a particular school? How do you think we should define this.

Yeahm Behr Tung oil is great. The reason for no varnish is that varnished wood will make blisters. If you check the oars used on fishing boats or lifeboats, they will not have varnish where the hand grips. If you want something you don't have to oil, there used to be an okinawan teacher around Kansas City, MO who would get teak or iron wood bo and escrime sticks and then they were heated and impregnated with a fiberglass substance. Talk about unbreakable. I was given a bo of his. I backed off and ran at a steel stanchion and hit it like I was swinging a ball bat. No break. Just put a small dent in my stick. But I have some old Bo from back in the 60's when they were of oak, and I oil and oil them and they haven't cracked yet.

we did pasai dai and sho (big and little) in our Shorin club in the 60's. Only Pinans up to shodan, the Kushanku, and Pasai, kururunfa etc. Some sai and bo.

Yeah, Capoeira was funny. I did Angola style. A lot like Silat I'm told. One o my teachers said the old school way was to do only ginga until you could do an hour non-stop, using high, medium and low ginga. After I could do this I began to see how this continous motion was very hard for Karate-ka (as an example) to deal with. They wanted to set, then throw a kick etc from a firm, solid stance, but all I did was keep going round and round them, never giving them a chance to get set. I taught my guys to incorporate anything they had ever learned into their capoeira, including carrying a straight razor (which several did). Shame I'm not still teaching. You aren't far from Wichita and we are just south of wichita (OKC), and I'd invite you and your guys down for some fun playing capoeira with us.

To reply to Bushido...Yeah I did Capoeira until I retired. The funny thing was that even when you went non-stop in exercising (for over an hour, or even two hours non-stop) the music seemed to keep yor attention off the tiredness, and kept you smiling even if you got wiped out in the roda. A lot of days we'd stay after practice and just enjoy playing and singing. I'm not really sure how you'd hook up music to , say, Karate, but I bet it would lighten to atmosphere a bit.

I've been in MAs since 1959. Although all of my belts are in other systems, if today you asked me where to train I'd suggest the JKA. They have as far as I can see, maintained a high standard for these many years, where other schools have fragmented into a million pieces. I met Kanazawa and Nishiyama when the JKA sent them to Honolulu in the early 60's. (Kanazawa lived across the hall from my friend). I learned a lot from talking to them. I also was friends with Sensei Oshima in the 60's. He had the only certificate I've ever seen that had Funakoshi's seal on it. His REAL seal, not a copy. I think many people avoid JKA simply because they have to work hard and produce certain standards of results. That is how ALL Karate schools were in the late 50's early 60's. I'm retired but not too long back a local university asked me to set up a Karate class for them, so I set up a no-nonsense JKA style class. My vote still belongs to JKA for the all time best record for maintaining the principles of Karate.

In the 60's one of the pioneers of Karate in the US, Robert Trias, had a daughter. At Ed Parkers 2nd Int'l tournament she did kata while accompanied by conga drums. Definitely made the blood move faster. (The drums that is) In the 60's I had a friend from India who had played tabla (drums) with Ravi Shankar, the Sitar player. He and some friend, at a party, had me do Tai Chi over and over and they put together some indian music that definitely added a "something" to my practice. I practiced to a recording of it for a long time. Also check out the big drum the Hung Gar use sometimes to accompany there forms. Dynamite beat to move to.

Has anyone ever seen or practiced one of the tibetan MAs or one of their chi kung styles?

It never ceases to amaze me how many of the basics of Karate have been dropped. Control for example. In our school we had a makiwara. A real one...back when they were made from 4 x 6 boards planed down. This makiwara was coated with very thick axel grease in which was mixed several broken up coke bottles. If you showed no control the teacher ordered you to hit the makiwara 10 times (or more) and each time you struck it you had to being your hand away with a bit of grease on each of the two knuckles you used in a seiken thrust puch. He'd wipe off the grease and you hit again...and again..and again. If you didn't have the sense to have control before this you usually had it afterward. Also he would spar with you and the rule was every time you failed to use control and hit him, before you could withdraw your fist he would have hit you in the mouth. People who can't develop control do not belong in the MAs. The sooner they quit the better. Teachers who let children free fight before they can even stand correctly are the ones who produce these kind of immature students who hit others. If your school has people who have no control...go find a real dojo, where real karate or kempo is taught.

I've done several MA forms since starting in '59. I retired after teaching capoeira angola awhile. First of all, there can be seen a lot of acrobatics in regional style but I didn't see this in Angola. Angola as I saw it is a lot like Silat. In Angola we used whatever we used, including carying a razor in our shoe for street use. I taught my guys how to just use the Ginga to wear an opponent down (They had to be able to do one hour Ginga before learning anything else. High, medio, Low) They learned to do what I guess I'd call standard Angola, and then how to use every part of their body as a tool when needed. My classes were free and taught in the Barrio. So my guys were used to the street. My guys fought in a roda against a Regional teacher with 10 yrs expereince...and several of them knocked him down at least once, and I would stand there and let him kick me because his kick was for show but had no power in it. My opinion based on 45 plus years in the MAs world is that capoeira Angola is a great exercise, and a lot of fun to sing and play. If you already know at least one MA it is easy to combine the two. Oh, don't mistake Capoeira as played when in practice for what the same guy might do in the street. 2 very different arts.

In the early 60's I saw old man Chitose put on a closed exhibition of Chito Ryu in Honolulu. My girlfriend was a photographer for a newspaper and she always volunteered for the MA events as she knew I would want to use one of her passes to get in. I will say this, the old man could make a pair of Sai move like airplane propellers. I've only seen one other person as fast as he was. I stayed down by the stage front trying to get every photo I could, hoping he'd ask for volunteers from the audience for a sparring demo etc etc. No luck. Chito Ryu is, to me, similar to Wado and Shito Ryu. A good school but the GI's living in Okinawa didn't , for whatever reason, end up in their style. Thus a lot of Gu Ju and Shorin people returned to teach in the US in the 60's but not so many from the other schools. Also I was told some of the Okinawan schools were hostile to Americans while the Shimabuku clan, for example, welcomed them to train and even set up classes on the US bases. Glad to see Chito Ryu is alive and well. Good luck.

Many years ago I saw a film that belonged to the Kodokan. It showed a young Tomiki doing free fight with several old timers at the Kodokan. It seems that in WW II Tomiki learned an art in China that you might call a "cousin" of Aiki. He stood with one hand in his obi and one hand extended in tegatana. As these oldtimers moved on him, he used only the tegatana hand and arm to throw them to the floor. In a couple of the shots he pinned the opponent also using the one arm. How much of what was in the film became part of Tomiki Ryu Aiki I don't know. What was in the film was not Aikido as done today. This film preceded Uyeshiba going public to my knowledge. If you ever meet the world head of Tomiki ask him about this old film.

Yes it takes awhile. When I began Kempo you had to sit in a horse stance for 2 hours or the teacher woudn't accept you. Same when I began Kung Fu in '62. When teachers started teaching more for money they dropped these old requirements. I have a friend who lived in China 15-20 years and used to train in the Chen vilage to learn their systems. He said the old Chen teachers told him that tai chi was originally done as individual standing poses, and after a certain phenomena occurred they could start the form work. I also had a teacher from Shansi who told me the same thing. So my Tai Chi was done this old fashioned way. Was it worth it? If the americans who think they are learning tai chi only knew what they could have had if they had been able to learn in the old way, they'd be a bit unhappy. However you can lead a horse to water etc etc. But yes, you'd do standing far longer than a year to get the real results.

In the 50's we practiced w/out a gi a lot as few had them. We did an Okinawan wrestling/grappling, naked to the waist. As slick as the other persons skin would be you developed a different quality of grip. It ade grappling with a clothed person a piece of cake.

In '62 I lived with a Chinese man who trained me. One system he had done was Monkey. (In Canton) He said that grabbing "the peaches" was often difficult as martial artists tend to keep their upper thighs locked to strngthen their stance. He told me to drop, just as you say, but as I dropped strike to the bladder in a downward thrust punch with a leopard fist. It will easily burst the bladder. I busted one guys bladder ina fight and was very surprised at how easy it was to do. He showed me an interesting way to kick while down low in a "Monkey" style stance/walk. There are several ways to do it but the basic way he showed me was to (1) grab the opponents wrist as you went down. (2) then, lets say he is in a forward stance with his right knee bent and left leg out behind him, (3) while holding his arm, he may try to pull away, which actually helps you, and you kick from down low with the toe of your left foot whipping in between his legs from behind, and kick his prostate gland area with the toe of the left foot. I saw him use this kick in a fight and the person was on the ground in a flash and was still screaming in pain when the ambulance took him off. The above description is crude but if you do any Monkey you can dope out ways to do it from the descrption above. Oh, he had me buy hemp rope which he soaked in brine and tied into knots, then let it dry in the sun. Then I had to untie the knots using only my fingertips to work on the knot. Later on I worked on ships and would use what is called a "Monkey fist" to try to untie.

The real reaso for the tradition of not washing belts is this: In the 50's when I began Karate and Kempo, there were no martial arts stores, no magazines etc so, in other words, no place to buy a Gi. In Honolulu we had one store, Hakabundo on Beretania (down by Aala park). They sometimes had gis from Japan. Gi's didn't come in a big selection of sizes. You usually bought a Gi several sizes too large because when you washed a gi, it shrank, and I mean shrank. The belt shrank also, so we didn't wash them. The belts were usually green, brown and Black, unless the instructor had some local person who could sew them for his school. When we made our green belt (took about a year or more) we had to use Rit dye, and dye our belt. This meant boiling the belt and dye in a pot. Then we'd hang it over a tree limb and get people to hang on each end so it would stretch. We'd do this until it dried and pray it hadn't shrank too much too wear. Then we still didn't wash it. We'd get a brown belt after 2-3 years and again, boil it in dye, and stretch it the best we could. In 4-5 years we'd get black and repeat the boiling. If you notice the green covered up the dirty white, the brown covered the green OK and black covered them all up. I still have the same belt I bought in 1959. It hangs quietly in my closet alongside other black belts with several stripes on them. When my great grandson gets his adult black belt, I'll give it to him with instructions not too wash it. Anyway, as time passed, my friend Ed Parker sent me some magazines called "Black Belt"and asked that I pass them around in Hawaii to help get the magazine started. And soon there were MA stores etc etc. But, now you know why the legend of "Don't wash your belt." really got started. It was just a joking thing we'd say, and today it seems some people take it seriously.

I began Zen in 1959, at the Zen Mission on the Lunillilo Freeway in Honolulu. We also had martial arts on the premises. We learned the correct way to practice, and we learned how to use it in conjunction with our karate. Today I see it is a very disassociated practice. people trying to do what they think is Zen and being miles away from doing anything like Zen practice. One part of the problem is the teachers don't know zen (as a rule) and so don't know how to use it in the dojo. My advice is to go find a real, realized Zen teacher. Ask them if they can help you use it in conjunction with a MA. If they are a valid Roshi, follow their instruction. Briefly: Zen, or any other Buddhist training can take you to a state of consciousness. Being in that state of consciousness and doing your art makes a 1000% difference.

I think the Standing is unique in that you see a person just standing there, but you don't see what is going on inside. What movement of the energy is taking place, is the person working WITH the mind...or beyond the mind? Peope who do Standing, assuming they have correct instructions, are an unusual breed to say the least. They have "long sight" and can concieve where this art will take them...and so don't mind the hours of Standing to get there. There are several esoteric arts which move past just hitting and kicking people and into a higher way of working. Usually these arts belong to the Taoists and Buddhists, but not always. To apply just the physical part of Standing to any art: try going through all of your schools stances. Hold each one for, say, 30 seconds, then the next one and so on. Don't stand up straight between stances. If you begin with a forward stance, stay that low with the hips, and then slowly (like tai chi) shift to the horse, then a back stance and so on. If you get to where you can do 30 seconds fairly easy, move to a minute in each stance and so on. Done correctly this will teach you a lot about where your flaws are in your stances.

DWx, Yes the one leg standing we used when you needed to increase the load in the training but didn't have unlimited time, we'd do each leg individually. I understand all of your comments re "How could that be of benefit?" You can't see the benefit, you have to experience it. I worked on ships in west africa, the med and west Eu, and I'd go out on the dock in the evening and do my standing. Before long I'd have a class going...at least for as long as we were in port. I had 2 Mongolian sabres made in Toledo in Spain and I'd walk up and down the dock wearing them on my back. Sure was a good way to find other MAs on the other ships. I did my standing holding the 2 sabres in a raised arm position. Developed a LOT of strength in the arms, wrists and shoulders for swordplay.

I agree re Chinese arts, that Hsing-i is quick to learn and use. I started in the 50's in Kajukenbo, so still prefer it and having used it enough times I trust it if things get rough.

In our Pinan 5 we were told the jump was to come down, x-block...to block a persons kick. It was never clear to us that if someone was that far away from us why we'd want to jump over there to block. Let him come to us. But it never was clear WHY we did it. Knowing WHY we felt would give us insight into HOW to do it.

One thing I learned was from a teacher from China. He had me do Hsing-Yi, Bagua, and Tai Chi (Chen, Sun & Yang) all at the same time. The reason was, he said, one of these arts would be the best suited for my body to develop chi. Sure enough, one day, I was doing one of the moves and suddenly it felt like Chi was literally bursting out of my body. Trmendous speed and power quickly developed. Then he said from now on just do that school (Hsing-Yi) as your main practice. The chi, he said, would spill over into my other arts and they would then develop chi faster. Sure enough the Yin Fu Bagua I did also started to gain in chi, the the Sun Tai Chi and the Chen and the Yang. Then he had me study the chi each method developed to see if I could feel the subtle differences in each styles chi.

I did some Tam Tui with a friend in the 60's. Their leg exercises are quite good. One I liked was to spread your feet apart about horse stance width, but stand up erect. (not squatting down in a horse) then with left hand stretched overhead, s-l-o-w-l-y lean to your right straightening the left leg, bending the right leg, and strtching the left arm as you leaned over to the right as though you wanted to touch the ground on the right side. Then stretch the right arm overhead, leaning back to the left side. In time you stretched further and further over with the arms and went deeper and deeper with the bent leg, while stretching the opposite leg. When you were good at it we'd begin to "spring" on our bent leg so it was straightend fast, pushing your weght over to the opposite side. It builds great strength and limberness as well as a loose, "whip" arm used in palm strikes to the top of the head.