No bunkai until shodan?

[Nidan Melbourne]

16 hours ago, Spartacus Maximus said:

It is much easier to learn what kata techniques mean and how they are applied at the same time than no having a clue until shodan. 

Ideally, one would start learning the bunkai and applications(basic oyo) soon after learning each kata. Longer kata might be split into shorter sequences for this. 

perhaps another reason why this changed is because karate was usually taught in private or very small groups. It’s a lot tougher to effectively teach/learn bunkai to 25 at a time than it is with 3~5 people. 
 

 Rereading the posts here reminded me of something that my sensei once told me (he mentions it every now and again in class when teaching it). 

So his biggest gripe is with our Seeiunchin Bunkai; is that allegedly during a demonstration Goshi Yamaguchi performed a Support Middle Block to a Roundhouse Kick and broke his arm. Put continued on with the whole demonstration nonetheless. 

Now I don't know the validity of the story; and I'm not 100% sure if I have the correct Yamaguchi Off-spring correct. 

Also in my mind; Bunkai is a good starting point, but shouldn't be the end all of explaining kata. 

[ryanryu]

I think I do a little bit of everything mentioned here. The first kata students learn (after Sanchin) is Taikyoku and we don’t practice bunkai for that kata. It’s introduced mainly to get students familiar with what a kata is and to help them move their body across the floor.

The next kata we practice introduces the concept of bunkai- that the kata movements correspond to fighting applications. This bunkai is of the most basic block-punch variety. And that sort of repeats through green belt/5th kyu.

That is when the student gets to the classical kata and they’re getting much more robust bunkai.  Those kata each have a “theme” or lesson that they’re trying to teach the student and the bunkai are organized around that theme. As an example, Saifa is full of techniques where you are breaking loose from someone trying to grab you, so the theme is escaping or tearing free. Each subsequent kata, up to shodan, explores a different theme and they all build together to create a well-rounded karate-ka.

These themes are just a teaching aid that I gravitated towards to counterbalance the “every move can be anything” style of bunkai interpretation. I found that overwhelming when I was a student and I wanted to provide more direction on what to focus on for that period of time at that rank.

After black belt, the training wheels come off and the themes go away. Here we are working on assembling a deeper level of bunkai that follows the strategy of the style and good martial principles. For Goju, I think the fighting strategy is Counter, Close, Control (which may be accomplished in only one or two moves in some cases). Each kata in the style should follow the strategy of the style, as well as good martial principles like… move off the line, allow only one attack, etc. So a good bunkai will check as many of these boxes as possible and, I think, will more accurately reflect the core of the kata.

I think those “core” bunkai are harder to do, and more dangerous to your partner, so it’s appropriate to not introduce them until the black belt ranks. If you arrange the teaching like this, then one could say that you're not really doing the bunkai of your style until shodan... but that makes me feel like Ben Kenobi saying "from a certain point of view". 

I’m not going to claim this is the right way or the best way, but it reflects my own journey with bunkai in a way that I hope will prevent my students from diverting down all the side trails and dead ends of the modern karate landscape.

That's the main thing for me - whatever way bunkai is being taught, at whatever rank or speed, more thought needs to be given to the students learning it. Do they understand how the sensei approaches this topic? How does it fit into the rest of the training activities? Are the students learning what the teacher thinks she is teaching?  I think many of the problems today with kata and bunkai trace back to massive differences in teaching style between the East vs. West as well as simply poor teaching practices. 

[Nidan Melbourne]

On 7/23/2025 at 6:01 AM, Spartacus Maximus said:

It is much easier to learn what kata techniques mean and how they are applied at the same time than no having a clue until shodan. 

Ideally, one would start learning the bunkai and applications(basic oyo) soon after learning each kata. Longer kata might be split into shorter sequences for this. 

perhaps another reason why this changed is because karate was usually taught in private or very small groups. It’s a lot tougher to effectively teach/learn bunkai to 25 at a time than it is with 3~5 people. 
 

To be honest with you I didn't learn the Bunkai until i was a Shodan-Ho, and I was 16 at the time.

I trained at a club from 9th Kyu up to being awarded my Shodan-Ho, we weren't taught the bunkai nor the applications until then. Now I did grade as a Junior, as there was no Senior Grading the year that I was eligible. 

Did I have no clue to as their application?

Yes and No. 

Even if we weren't taught the Dojo Version of the explanation until later. We were encouraged to explain it ourselves and how it works for ourselves. 

It was explained to us at the time; that they wanted us to use our brains to see our level of understanding prior to being taught the the dojo explanation. 

 

Bunkai and being a Black Belt in the Real World 

Now something that I think we overlook is that Kata and Bunkai isn't everything that we learn. Along with Violence all about Adult on Adult Violence.

Now do I expect a Child to be able to fight evenly against a much Larger Adult? NO 

BUT I do expect them to have the intelligence to know how to respond in turn, and use their size to their advantage. Just like when we teach our seniors to do the same even if strength is more evenly matched as adults. 

 I know full well how easy it is to knock someone out or to injure someone, but if it came to someone who is faster than myself who can use their brains to their advantage then i'm in trouble. It is something that I teach my juniors, to use that to their advantage - even using techniques that is frowned upon in the dojo to help them survive. 

Being under 18 and a Black Belt?

Like i said i don't mind people being a Black Belt and under the age of 18. Because I believe that we teach a Martial Art to help teach us how to defend ourselves. 

Yes it is a typically "Adult" issue, but when you look at things that is prevalent in youth; they experience something similar. But we as adults call it "Bullying" and we degrade the violence in it that it actually is. 

Obviously to the extent of the violence greatly varies; but when you look at many outcomes they are exactly the same. But the difference is that adult violence someone gets arrested and charged vs. kids where "bullying" occurs and the perptrator is found yet at most an expulsion occurs. 

I don't know about everyone else, but I know that I got into several fights. I think 3 of those I used my verbal ninjitsu to prevent a physical fight, but countless more when I physically had to use skills that i learnt. 

And the reactions I had were off the routines i came up with myself prior to being shown what the dojo explanations were.