curriculum

[crash]

Do you or your dojo, class etc... incorporate or use heavy bags,(not B.O.B  or standing type but hanging heavy bags for timed drills), speed bags, dumb bells, or other non-martial arts type equipment in training. does your class veer away from just the M.A type subject and do a class of pure cardio or or perhaps "station" type training?  if so, what type and how often, once a week? once a month? just occasionally?...... just wondering others thoughts.

[Wastelander]

Yes. My late Sensei made use of heavy bags, sometimes double-end bags, and plenty of strength and conditioning equipment. I don't currently have the ability to put up a hanging bag of any kind, but I do still make use of a lot of strength and conditioning equipment. I incorporate some degree of strength and conditioning at the beginning of my classes, just as my late Sensei did, but class time is mainly for actual martial arts training, so real dedicated S&C workouts are probably only once or twice a month. Students are expected to work on that on their own.

[crash]

1 hour ago, Wastelander said:

Yes. My late Sensei made use of heavy bags, sometimes double-end bags, and plenty of strength and conditioning equipment. I don't currently have the ability to put up a hanging bag of any kind, but I do still make use of a lot of strength and conditioning equipment. I incorporate some degree of strength and conditioning at the beginning of my classes, just as my late Sensei did, but class time is mainly for actual martial arts training, so real dedicated S&C workouts are probably only once or twice a month. Students are expected to work on that on their own.

i agree that class time, or the majority of time spent at the dojo is martial arts training, that is what its all about, after all. but i have found that adults do like the cardio and strength portions also. gives them some "gym time", so to speak. ive been in dojos that for the entire month before testing they will only focus on forms for the entire month. well, two steps, forms, testing agenda, etc.... so for those not testing its rather boring or not "fullfilling" to a degree. (though i dont think most are like that or to that degree, but if testing every three months like some do, that eats a lot of time away from class in the long haul).. this is OK for beginners classes but for advanced classes i would rather have them work on forms/kata in their own time, (of course there is help if needed) and have a HIIT type routine of some type twice a month. along with a sparring class once per week.. , Thanks for the reply.

[Montana]

I always had an 80# heavy bag or two, and a makiwara. I was there to teach karate, not cardio, strength training, aerobics or weight loss. Get a gym membership if that's your goal.

[crash]

6 hours ago, Montana said:

 Get a gym membership if that's your goal.

and that is the problem with adult retention. one of the big puzzles we try to figure out is how to retain adults long term. if you ask most people why they want to learn "karate" the answer will be self defense and to get in shape, by teaching "karate" only, you are only giving them half of what they are looking for, and i guarantee they will leave for a gym within 2 or so years.  compare your memberships with ANY gym in the area. you are lucky to have half the numbers of the worst gym. gyms are everywhere and on average are 50 bucks a month, la fitness (and many others, depending on location) you can get for 50-60 a month, bring a friend every visit, have a pool, gym, and classes of every kind, even a box it out class at most. this is the competition we face. we have to change what we offer to stay afloat. the thread "is martial arts dying?" is a good example, and the answer, honestly is "Yes".... karate has become a kindergarden or babysitting service in most peoples eyes. an afterschool activity for the kids. in that thread, and others, posters mention the poor teaching and lack of actual skills. that is the dying last breath of the martial arts. we are in the death throes and must admit there is a problem in order to fix it..... instead of changing to fit the times the martial arts instead became belt factories and soft. thinking to get or keep people they had to offer easy ways to the top..... and this is now the result. not trying to be harsh, just pointing out that for 100 bucks a month people would choose a crossfit or P.T gym over what we do. they dont want easy, they want results........ and we can give those results, we just have to see and make the changes necessary.... its not hard to incorporate a routine into the training and still stay martial arts based and focused.

Edited April 4 by crash

[bushido_man96]

We have a place to hang a heavy bag, but we don't use it too much.  We do use standing bags quite often.  We do have clapper pads and focus mitts that I think we should use more often, but that depends on who's teaching class.

I don't like to use Martial Arts class time to work on "cardio" or "strength training."  The fact of the matter is that it isn't often strength training at all.  You just end up doing a workout with some other tools to make the students hot, sweaty, tired, and sore for a few days, and in the end it provides no actual accumulative benefit, because it isn't done consistently enough to provide a benefit.  Aside from that, there are better ways to get stronger, the most effective being having a good strength training program that uses free weights about three times a week.  And this good program will take about an hour to an hour and a half to complete.

If I want my students to leave class hot, sweaty, tired, and sore, I can still do that with Martial Arts focused training.

My classes are for learning Martial Arts, and not cardio kickboxing or Tae Bo.  Places like LA Fitness that sell a ton of memberships per year tend to have a very transient group of people training there; many sign up, but not as many are actually in there working out.  Sure, there are the regulars that make it a point to stick to their fitness regimens, but if you polled the number of members that actually keep going to work out 'regularly' (we'll call that three days per week), it's probably a significantly lower percentage of the actual registered gym membership.

2 hours ago, crash said:

we are in the death throes and must admit there is a problem in order to fix it.....

This is a bit extreme.  The Martial Arts aren't dying.  Things ebb and flow.  The Martial Arts have never been about "broadcasting" at any rate.  It's always been about the select few that stick it out for a lifetime, and get to bring some people along the way.  Not everyone that joins stays with it for life; but you can get some good students that stick around for two to four years.  Instructors have seen this pattern for years and years.  It's unfortunately nothing new.  I find that a lot of adults have lots of things going on and either don't think they have time to put into MA training, or would just rather not fill up the few hours of time they have on their own with anything else.  Our TKD school has been struggling with getting more adult students in since Covid, and most of the adults get into it because they have kids into it as well, and they do it as a family.  However, the Aikido dojo I attend classes at has a very decent adult following.

 

8 hours ago, Montana said:

I always had an 80# heavy bag or two, and a makiwara. I was there to teach karate, not cardio, strength training, aerobics or weight loss. Get a gym membership if that's your goal.

I agree with this.  If I'm not using the time in class to teach the students MA skills, then I'm not giving them their money's worth.  Nothing I do "strength focused" is actually going to be beneficial to them in a strength capacity anyway.  Like I mentioned, it might make them sore for a day or two, and they might think it's worth it, but it really has no long-term benefit.

[crash]

1 hour ago, bushido_man96 said:

 

This is a bit extreme. 

lol. yeah, probably a little..... what got me thinking of this topic as a whole, is recently on our little main street another personal training gym has opened up. not a mile from one that opened in 2019. both are along the lines of cross fit or other HIIT type gyms. so that, along with a workout anytime or planet fitness in every shopping center in the county. and they all stay pretty much packed out, we are in a fitness revolution of sorts, people are far more fitness conscience now than even 15 or so years ago, and  i know that martial arts are a specific interest. but a lot of people do expect a level of fitness to be gotten from their participation. and with the multitudes of people going for the gyms there has to be a way to attract some of those to our sector... interesting comments/views so far. i know many of you come from a traditional background where as my core training was more sport oriented. so there is a difference as well as the differences in how each dojo or style is ran, a lot of variables at play. just wondering others thoughts or what they may or may not do that is different from the standard martial arts type everyday type runnings.... 

 

1 hour ago, bushido_man96 said:

  However, the Aikido dojo I attend classes at has a very decent adult following.

i attended an aikido dojo back in the early 2000's for a year or so and they always had a very large attendance / members. they didnt teach children below 16 and the classes were 2 hours each day.  only two belts, white and black, (they had testing of course, just no colored belts) though you were allowed to wear the hakama after you were past the halfway point..... cool place, and they "broke" the rules of how most dojos run but still maintained a large membership.... 

[Nidan Melbourne]

On 4/3/2025 at 7:12 AM, crash said:

Do you or your dojo, class etc... incorporate or use heavy bags,(not B.O.B  or standing type but hanging heavy bags for timed drills), speed bags, dumb bells, or other non-martial arts type equipment in training. does your class veer away from just the M.A type subject and do a class of pure cardio or or perhaps "station" type training?  if so, what type and how often, once a week? once a month? just occasionally?...... just wondering others thoughts.

My Shihan, has a couple of Punching Bags that hang up along with a few dumbbells and other pieces of exercise equipment that live near the front desk. 

We use the bags to allow students to go full force in the bags (Adults Mainly), as it is far safer to do so on those than it would be to go full contact all the time on partners. 

ALthough we also do run Exercise Classes that use them and use the mat space for various exercises.

[sensei8]

My dojo had a plethora of training “bags” and we used them daily in and out of any given class. 

I’m quite partial with a good old hanging bag, the better and more dense the better. 

A BOB is handy to have for various reasons, and I had many of them in my dojo. However, the fight with a BOB isn’t even close to a good old hanging bag. I don’t have to constantly pick up a hanging bag like one has to with a BOB.

My students were impartial as to which bag they trained on during class because they’d work on whatever bag I assigned for that class but my students preferred the good old hanging bag.

I never had any stations for class work for my bags, and I had many different bags. I’d assign whichever bag I wanted my students to work with at that particular time. When I read stations, I think of gyms and how they have stations where one goes from one equipment to another during circuit training, of which I’ve used at the gym but I don’t like that idea in my dojo.

[aurik]

Our CI has several supplementary tools to change things up.  He has chi ishi (spirit stones) which he made which he uses for weight training during class.  In a similar vein, he has weighted jars, which he has students use during Sanchin kata to provide an upper body workout and work on gripping strength.  He has used exercise bands, where we hold each end in our hand with the band wrapped around our shoulders/upper back to provide resistance when striking in Sanchin.

As a general rule, his classes almost always follow the same format, first 30 minutes: warmups, accessory exercises, sanchin, kote kitae (body conditioning).  Next 45 minutes: focus area for the week, whether that's bunkai, two-person drills, self-defense techniques, throws/takedowns, cardio/weight training, etc.  Last 15 minutes: kata.  The 45 minutes in the middle is where he mixes things up to keep class interesting each week.