A ´murderous disposition’

[Spartacus Maximus]

There are many reasons why respectable instructors of martial arts might delay, or even refuse teaching a person. 

Anyone who has trained in Okinawa or Japan for a while might be more familiar with this reason. 
 

The one and only reason was that the instructor saw what could be explained as a murderous disposition, a fatal flaw of mind and character in the person asking to learn.

A responsible and fair instructor, these circles would never want to facilitate or help cause violence by teaching a violent criminal to be more dangerous and efficient in felonious assault. 

The curious part is how early the old timers could spot this type of character. A generation or so before now, many karate instructors would know before teaching the slightest thing, whether a particular person was morally teachable.

 

 

[sensei8]

Interesting topic. Thank you, Spartacus Maximus, for starting this thread.

We are accountable for our actions as a CI both in and out of the school. Unless we’ve advanced viable and factual information about a student, we won’t know the true character one way or another, unless we’re able to read the minds of said student.

Don’t know how CI’s of old in Okinawa and/or Japan knew that a prospective student had that “murderous disposition”, but I sure don’t possess that ability. 

The old timers would test the character through rigorous duties before accepting a prospective student. I don’t think I’ve ever truly seen and/or heard and/or read of any CI doing this here in the USA. I mean, both my Sensei and his Sensei didn’t do that and the were both from Okinawa.

I might have a feeling that I can’t shake or raised hair on my arms or goosebumps all over about a certain prospective student but until I have concrete proof, I’ve only one thing to do in this situation…

Expel or suspend or refuse said prospective student because my first and foremost priority is to protect my entire Student Body as well as my Staff for cause.

Evil can be disguised so well, so, first assumptions or uneasy feelings about a prospective student must be acted upon immediately.

As a business owner, I’ve the right to refuse my services to anyone without an explanation whatsoever!!

[JazzKicker]

I think a more experienced instructor develops perception to be able to read people and their intentions.

I was on a dojang safari years ago, when I visited one place, asking about "their program", without mentioning I was already a black belt- the instructor asked, "So, where do you train now?" He could tell.

[Nidan Melbourne]

I know currently i am no saint; as I am going through some stuff which I can't talk about here. But to give voice to those who may have lost theirs due to a criminal conviction. 

As an Instructor, there are some people with certain Criminal Convictions that I wouldn't permit to train in any way shape or form. Especially with the way the classes I taught were set up. However if classes were set up differently, I would consider them differently. Also I would have to give potential students time to prove themselves prior to being able to join class. 

Like what Sensei8 has said; where we as instructors and CI need to protect our existing student body at all costs. Even if it means saying no to some. 

However I do want to give people a fair chance at rehabilitation, in any way that I can. So I sit down with them privately for them to explain and to get a fair chance for me to make a decision. 

More often than not, I would maybe give them private tuition or small group training where those who can't train in normal classes. 

[KorroddyDude]

On 1/3/2025 at 9:25 PM, Spartacus Maximus said:

There are many reasons why respectable instructors of martial arts might delay, or even refuse teaching a person. 
...

A responsible and fair instructor, these circles would never want to facilitate or help cause violence by teaching a violent criminal to be more dangerous and efficient in felonious assault.

I believe it's because the instructor believes that such a person could either be a danger to the other students or a bad influence on them.  That's it.

As for everything else, it's hard to imagine spending all that time and money to learn a martial art for evil intent, when they've got all kinds of sharp and/or hard objects laying around the house to carry out their bad deeds with.

Even trained martial artists who murder and maim don't use their martial arts to do these things.  Look at Cain Velazquez and James Scott.

When you think about it, it's probably the real hot-headed types that can benefit from martial arts training the most.  We all saw that in the Karate Kid.

The other thing is that some of the old Okinawan masters were, themselves, known to be violent when out and about with very little or no provocation.  Such as Chotoku Kyan.

[aurik]

My CI has had to tell students that they were no longer welcome to train with us.  Most recently it has happened with older teens as they start getting into their strength/size, and their control doesn't come along with it.  The last student was disinvited after he cracked another student's ribs while sparring, and this was not the first instance of him injuring another student.  It wasn't just that he had poor control, but he also didn't seem to care.  He had just earned his shodan-sho, and he never even returned to pick up his diploma.

[bushido_man96]

I imagine some could tell better than others, and some had probably been burned by taking on the wrong student and learned from their mistakes.

I think if you have a long enough conversation with someone, you can start to discern what their motivations are.  They'll eventually reveal what their about, and that will answer the question for itself.