Kiai Differences

[ryanryu]

I’m in agreement with the short, sharp kiai. I think the longer kiai are usually performative, which is fine for a tournament or a demo, but it can really descend into parody.

My dojo had students say “Hai” when they kiai. I’ve drifted from that, but still find the “h” sound is easier to get from the gut than the “k” sound. Anyone else feel that? Or maybe there's some other letter/sound I should try out...

On 9/10/2024 at 3:07 AM, Nidan Melbourne said:

At the same time it doesn't necessarily have to be a "shout" but more talking louder. So if I was to draw attention a situation or make something clearly known i'd be saying "Stop" with an increased volume but also being firm. Which draws attention your way. 

I'll echo this thought too. Kiai helped me get comfortable with being LOUD, which is an important self-defense skill as much as anything else we train. For that reason alone I like using and teaching them, especially when a lot of people (children especially) are often taught to be quiet or that being loud is improper. Sometimes you have to make noise! I think in this instance the short, sharp kiai is probably better than a drawn out one because it's more like shouting. For example - shouting GET BACK or HELP ME are kind of like kiais. 

[bushido_man96]

On 9/11/2024 at 2:49 PM, ryanryu said:

My dojo had students say “Hai” when they kiai. I’ve drifted from that, but still find the “h” sound is easier to get from the gut than the “k” sound. Anyone else feel that? Or maybe there's some other letter/sound I should try out...

I tend to use a hard long I sound.  It tends to come out like "aye-ya!"  One thing I can't stand is when people actually say "Kiai!" or "Kihap!" when they yell.  Seems to work well, but maybe I should look into the "H" sounds you mention.  Years ago, my dad something that sounded like "ooh-ie!" or something like that.  When I do it myself, I see why.

On 9/11/2024 at 2:49 PM, ryanryu said:

I'll echo this thought too. Kiai helped me get comfortable with being LOUD, which is an important self-defense skill as much as anything else we train. For that reason alone I like using and teaching them, especially when a lot of people (children especially) are often taught to be quiet or that being loud is improper. Sometimes you have to make noise! I think in this instance the short, sharp kiai is probably better than a drawn out one because it's more like shouting. For example - shouting GET BACK or HELP ME are kind of like kiais. 

We are big on this with out women's self-defense seminars, for a couple of reasons.  One, being loud draws attention, which bad guys don't want.  And two, if you're talking, you're breathing.

[KarateKen]

I always liked a long loud one ha.  

[Spartacus Maximus]

some of the best examples of good “kiai” isn’t even from martial arts. Tennis and baseball has great ones depending on the player. So does weightlifting.There was even some issue with certain athletes being given “warnings” because supposedly it isn’t sportsman like to do what they thought was just some over-agressive posturing.

 

 

 

[Zaine]

53 minutes ago, Spartacus Maximus said:

some of the best examples of good “kiai” isn’t even from martial arts. Tennis and baseball has great ones depending on the player. So does weightlifting.There was even some issue with certain athletes being given “warnings” because supposedly it isn’t sportsman like to do what they thought was just some over-agressive posturing.

 

 

 

Tennis definitely comes to mind with this point.

[bushido_man96]

On 9/27/2024 at 4:31 PM, Spartacus Maximus said:

some of the best examples of good “kiai” isn’t even from martial arts. Tennis and baseball has great ones depending on the player. So does weightlifting.There was even some issue with certain athletes being given “warnings” because supposedly it isn’t sportsman like to do what they thought was just some over-agressive posturing.

 

 

 

In strength training, this is an example of the Valsalva maneuver.  Taking a big breath, bracing the body, and then exerting effort.  It locks the body into a strong, stable column in order to move the weight.  Once the weight is lifted, it's usually followed by a sharp exhale, much like a kiai/kihap is done (although these are usually a much shorter duration).

I always thought a war yell was much akin to a kiai, too.

[sensei8]

35 minutes ago, bushido_man96 said:

In strength training, this is an example of the Valsalva maneuver.  Taking a big breath, bracing the body, and then exerting effort.  It locks the body into a strong, stable column in order to move the weight.  Once the weight is lifted, it's usually followed by a sharp exhale, much like a kiai/kihap is done (although these are usually a much shorter duration).

I always thought a war yell was much akin to a kiai, too.

Great point. Strongman and Crossfit competitors, for example, will "kiai" at certain parts of their routine. I suppose that nearly everyone at one time or another of their lives, whether it be deliberate or accidental, will "kiai" whenever they feel necessary to exert themselves in both body and vocally. A release, so to speak.

[Nidan Melbourne]

On 9/28/2024 at 8:25 AM, Zaine said:

Tennis definitely comes to mind with this point.

True, but some of their "spirited shouts" sometimes sound a little off to my Australian Ear. 

[aurik]

I attended a kobudo seminar a couple weeks ago and had one (of many) a-ha moments during one of our hojo undo sessions.  In our style, if we are performing a sequence of hojo undo (aka kihon/basic) techniques, we are expected to kiai on the final technique.  Well, the instructor who was teaching said, "You kiai on ALL of them, but you only vocalize the last one".  I had to think about that a bit, but I interpreted it as "you have focus/kime on every technique, but we only need to hear it on the last one".

[sensei8]

Kiai's, for a lot of differences, are cultural differences. For example, the over-the-top kiai's that are seen at many tournaments are based on their individual culture, therefore aren't frowned upon by both the tournament and the competitors. MA school cultures regarding kiai, for the most, don't approve the over-the-top kiai for whatever their reason(s) might be. Cultures should be respected because it does help us understand the different perspectives and banish negative patterns.

Imho!!