Loyal to Style

[Nidan Melbourne]

Of course, i've branched out into BJJ and Balintawak Arnis over the last few years.

I know that I have had to defend myself multiple times but there are just some things i would like to develop that i don't get out of those areas.

[DWx]

In reality however - if folk were being honest with themselves - self defence is probably quite low down on the priority list of most 'hobbyist' martial artists that choose to train in a traditional system.

Or at least it should be.

I have to agree with Kusotare here.

Let's be honest, self defense is a byproduct of what we do.. it's not actually what we train for when we train in traditional martial arts. There are far more effective and quicker ways to learn to defend yourself than learning a kata.

I suspect a lot of us enjoy learning the intricacies associated with learning a system in its entirety. It's like working towards a PhD in a style then continuing on with post-doc research versus getting a basic diploma in a lot of subjects. Loyalty to one style or group of styles then comes hand in hand with this. You might choose to cross train and experience other stuff but you always return back to your base style.

[sensei8]

To me, loyalty to a style is not being slave to that system, nor the person(s) that govern the style. I'm loyal to Shindokan, but I'm not a slave of it, nor am I a slave to Soke and/or Dai-Soke because I'm my own MAist, and I decide my journeys path, and not someone else.

If I was a slave to Shindokan, then I would've never ever cross trained!!

[JR 137]

A lot of it depends on where you are in life, how much free time you have, your finances, and what's available locally.

Before karate and in between karate stints, I wrestled and I coached it. Does that count as cross training?

While in college, we had a martial arts club. Run by students, we basically took turns informally teaching each other stuff from our arts. Karate, TKD, aikido, Japanese jiu jutsu, and Wing Chun. We met up once a week and worked out together. There were a few people with zero MA experience, but the rest of us had been at our art for several years. That was a fun time. It probably wouldn't have been possible in any other setting.

I also participated in the boxing club on campus. It was run by a former low level pro. Three guys competed (they went to his gym too), I spent most of my time working with those guys twice a week. The rest were women who wanted the cardio workout. I learned quite a bit during that - footwork, head movement, and boxing punching mechanics. That was easily the best cross training I've done.

I also worked out at a Uechi Ryu dojo while in college. They had open mat night once a week, and that was the only time that fit my schedule. Talk about a bunch of hard-nosed, no nonsense guys and gals. The body conditioning and Sanchin training were awesome.

I didn't do any of those things at the same time. And I didn't do them for the sake of cross training. I was still active at my dojo, but my schedule made it hard to get there once a week. On a good week I'd go twice. I was an hour and a half away when there it wasn't snowing. Going to school in the Berkshire Mountains in MA, that hour and a half quite often took longer.

Having those things available and affordable (the only thing that cost anything was Uechi, which I gave them a few bucks every time I showed up) was a blessing.

They were great opportunities to get different perspectives. But if I could've made it to the dojo every night, I'd have gone there instead. I guess I'm too much of a perfectionist. I'd rather perfect one thing than split time doing something else. If I had those opportunities now, I'd still go to the dojo instead. I'd feel like why am I learning something else when I still have a ways to go with my art. Time spent elsewhere could be time spent working towards that.

I know, doing other things can make you better at your main art. It can make you more well rounded. I get it and respect it. It just isn't the way my brain works when push comes to shove.

I'm also not in the same place I was 20 years ago. Wife, young kids, career, etc. I'm lucky to get into the dojo twice a week now; there's no way I'm cutting back on that to cross train. Maybe when the kids grow up and aren't so needy and I've got some time on my hands and some extra money I'll take up Judo. But that'll be alongside karate. Then again, I'll probably just go to karate more because the way my brain works when push comes to shove.

[bushido_man96]

In reality however - if folk were being honest with themselves - self defence is probably quite low down on the priority list of most 'hobbyist' martial artists that choose to train in a traditional system.

Or at least it should be.

I have to agree with Kusotare here.

Let's be honest, self defense is a byproduct of what we do.. it's not actually what we train for when we train in traditional martial arts. There are far more effective and quicker ways to learn to defend yourself than learning a kata.

I suspect a lot of us enjoy learning the intricacies associated with learning a system in its entirety. It's like working towards a PhD in a style then continuing on with post-doc research versus getting a basic diploma in a lot of subjects. Loyalty to one style or group of styles then comes hand in hand with this. You might choose to cross train and experience other stuff but you always return back to your base style.

I agree, these are good points.

I think everyone is in a different part of the journey, and that affects what they are doing and why. As we move through life, our needs and wants change, and this can affect what we practice and why at the time. I think we all have that place we call "home" though, and in the long run, we all tend to work our way back there.

[Alan Armstrong]

Loyalty to a style also involves commitment, that this is not just a "Come and perhaps I'll stay maybe not attitude"

Also loyalty to a style involves the "Stick to it attitude" no matter how difficult the road ahead is, to keep moving forward with perseverance.

Loyalty includes a certain amount of dedication, to put the time and effort in, to show up for class, even if there is a larg distance to travel, sometimes the most difficult part of martial arts can be simply be to attend the class.

Loyalty fused with determination, using the strength and willpower to succeed, "Mind over matter" to overcome difficulties as nothing of value has ever been gained with out it.

Focused loyalty to a worthy cause can move mountains; by doing the right things for the right reasons, believing in something higher than oneself can achieve wondrous results.

Commitment Perseverance Dedication Endurance Determination Focused

Loyalty has many associations with virtues of doing good, consequently loyalty can be a tool for also doing bad; tools are not good or bad, it very much depends on the handler.

[sensei8]

I'm loyal my way, not anyone's way!! In that, I don't have to meet someone's prerequisite loyalty...that ain't going to happen. If it does, then I'm a slave to someone's loyalty and not my own!! If someone doesn't like the way I show my loyalty, well, that's just too bad; it is what it is.

[Alan Armstrong]

I'm loyal my way, not anyone's way!! In that, I don't have to meet someone's prerequisite loyalty...that ain't going to happen. If it does, then I'm a slave to someone's loyalty and not my own!! If someone doesn't like the way I show my loyalty, well, that's just too bad; it is what it is.

Being loyal to one's self, is similar to be true to one's self. As it is possible to fool most of the people most of the time, but to try to fool oneself, just erodes self respect and self esteem.

Having no loyalty is just a reaction to it.

Having blind loyalty is behaving like a puppet.

Having loyalty to maintaing family health and wellbeing is a good a place as any to start using it effectively.

Having loyalty to a single martial art style isn't necessarily doing what works for oneself, it could actually be a limiting position; perhaps being good at one move, is the reality for many.

Here alot about using the right tool for the situation, but in reality many martial artists fall back on using one technique and one tool for all occasions, the tried and tested "Reverse Punch" comes to mind.

[italian_guy]

I started martial art in 2003 at the age of 42 and I left it in 2011 (50). My preferred martial art was goju ryu karate (although I trained also in JKD Kickboxing and Tai chi chuan yung style). Now that I'm returning to martial art I need to get to the practical side, I'm 56 now and I prefer a purely self-defence optimized art, without forms and without sport competition. Now that I'm not longer at the edge of my physical performance I prefer something that go straight to the point of self-defence.

It's not a matter of loyalty, each MA is a sort of tool and if the scope or the capability of using that tool changes also the tool itself need to be changed. This is why I'm planning to practice krav Maga for the next future.

[Dani_001]

Thank you very much for your post.

My journey began in "Goju-Ryu", now the reason why I put it in quotation marks was because the organization I was with initially did not teach authentic Goju-Ryu. I was an adolescent at the time and had absolutely no idea what martial arts was, moreover what authentic martial arts was. All I knew was that I didn't want to be fat and bullied anymore.

In later years I have been with Chinese Shaolin, I left because I felt forced into beliefs that I didn't believe in, then went onto Pukulan Melaka Seni Silat. I really enjoyed that, but the instructor was a douche so I left that. Then I found Okinawa Goju-Ryu Karate-do Kyokai with which I am now. I quite enjoy OGKK but I am missing an element of fighting in my Karate. I have recently come across Ashihara Karate, the first Ashihara Karate. I actually went for an introductory class last night (22/05/2017) and I really enjoyed it. Ashihara is a Japanese form of Karate but it's very effective in handling and attacking. But I do however love the kata in Goju-Ryu Karate-do. This all being said, I want to do both systems. Time isn't an issue for me to go to class and adaptations in both forms are minute. An example is that Ashihara rising block isn't a total vertical as in OGKK, but at a slight vertical angle upwards.

So that's a mouthful from me. What is worrying now is that I don't want to become a jack of all trades and a master of none given of my history and yes I know I sound like a problem child even though all my reasons are valid, but at least in this case, Japanese Karate is (almost) Okinawa Karate.

What are your thoughts on this?