Article re:(trans)gender/sex controversy in sport

[JusticeZero]

http://www.theestablishment.co/2016/12/13/no-female-trans-athletes-do-not-have-unfair-advantages/

This hits a lot of points, most of which apply to the cis population that you see in class more. Lots of links.

It covers the basic issues seen in competitions recently where transgender athletes are competing.. Including the fact that that they actually have a disadvantage because the best rulesets so far restrict testosterone levels tightly (completely reasonably), but those restrictions aren't present on cisgender athletes who often have natural testosterone levels that are above "normal".

This was most highlighted by Caster Semenya during the Olympics; there is no good way known to equalize competition to be a pure test of skill when people with wildly outlier biology come into play.

And then there's always the potential nightmare of a nonbinary intersex person with ambiguous biology trying to enter athletics. I'm not sure that a solution will appear if we simply wait for such cases to come about to think about them.

[Bulltahr]

Interesting. A prickly one for sure, maybe a separate class, like Invictus (military vets games).

Everyone would be in the same situation in this case.

I noticed that the article mentions that trans women have to wait 12 mths to compete, but trans men can compete immediately. I am assuming that this is so because they assume that the trans man will not be as strong as other men.....

[JusticeZero]

Transgender men are starting at the level of cisgender women, and there is no category where cisgender women are more muscular than cisgender men.

[DWx]

Interesting article Justice, thanks for sharing.

“If you change sex, you will have to have a hormone level below 10 for 12 months,” he said. “That does not mean a one-year guarantee. You don’t go below 10 from day one. It takes quite some time. It can take more than one year or two years.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jan/25/ioc-rules-transgender-athletes-can-take-part-in-olympics-without-surgery

To me this seems fair. Cis-male T-levels are considerably higher and are the reason why men perform better than women in most sports. By monitoring T-levels until the are consistently lower for 12 months, however long that may take seems to me to be a good way to level the playing field. Though I do wonder why it has to be so low if normal range for cis-women is 15 to 70 ng/dL?

This was most highlighted by Caster Semenya during the Olympics; there is no good way known to equalize competition to be a pure test of skill when people with wildly outlier biology come into play.

It is a difficult one and Semenya is by no means the first or last athlete to have been subjected to this testing. Should we be able to decide that a natural variation is an unfair advantage?

FWIW Michael Phelps' success is in part due to him being an outlier. He as a relatively long torso and shorter legs, but also a disproportionate armspan, and large feet which are hyperflexible.

On a side note, I think we should have some sort of super olympics where super-athletes can do what they want to get results via doping or other means

[JR 137]

These decisions are made by endocrinologists and the like who are reknowned experts in their field. The IOC has relatively unlimited resources when it comes to important matters such as this. That's not to say they're perfect and beyond questioning and reproach by any means though.

There's a ton of factors in why they choose what they choose as an acceptable range and duration. On the surface it doesn't seem to make much sense, but if we were to sit in on a meeting and hear and understand the thought process, I'm sure it would make sense. I'm quite sure they didn't choose arbitrary amounts. Without scientific validation, I'm quite sure they'd be opening themselves up to severe litigation and lawsuits. And deservingly so.

[DWx]

These decisions are made by endocrinologists and the like who are reknowned experts in their field. The IOC has relatively unlimited resources when it comes to important matters such as this. That's not to say they're perfect and beyond questioning and reproach by any means though.

There's a ton of factors in why they choose what they choose as an acceptable range and duration. On the surface it doesn't seem to make much sense, but if we were to sit in on a meeting and hear and understand the thought process, I'm sure it would make sense. I'm quite sure they didn't choose arbitrary amounts. Without scientific validation, I'm quite sure they'd be opening themselves up to severe litigation and lawsuits. And deservingly so.

I'm sure there's very good reason behind. Would be interesting to see that research

[twistkick kid]

All very interesting points brought up by members and the articles alike

I am a transgender man and when I spoke with my endocrinologist about competitions, she told me to hold off on competing in sparring events until my T levels had stabilized (about 18-24 months into transition), but she told me I could compete in Kata and Weapons Kata at any point. Her reasoning was that during the first 18-24 months of HRT, one's levels can be incredibly unpredictable (and might even run too high or low), especially if you're adjusting dosages or having surgery to remove ovaries/uterus/associated bleedy bits. She also didn't want me to be put in a class where (based on appearance) I was having to spar females, as I didn't really have much of a change in body shape or a voice drop until about 8 months into my HRT regimen.

Speaking from my own experiences, I had massive level changes (going too high) after I had my ovaries and uterus out, so much so that we had to halve my T dosage.

She said now that I've been on T for 2 years (as of 15 December 2016), I would be able to try my hand at tournament level sparring. Due to Injury and surgery, I won't be trying my hand at competitive sparring till at least December 2017

[JusticeZero]

If I had to guess at the low number, it would be to correct for people taking antiandrogens right before their test. I remember in high school when we would game with one of the guys on the wrestling team, and he would be annoyed before every match at having to both fast and dehydrate himself before every weigh in. Some days he would visit and grump a lot at being hungry and thirsty but not being allowed to eat or drink until after weigh in for a match. This seems no different.