"It is not the sensei's job to teach Bunkai!"- is

[ashworth]

I use bunkai to help teach students the movements of the kata, could be teaching them a kata and there may be a particular movement they aren't quite getting right so I'll explain what the movement could be for and get them to try it out themselves.

another thing with the way I teach bunkai, I have ideas on the most practical bunkai for the kata I teach. But not a believer in saying this is what this move is for and thats that, I don't believe that there is a right answer. I believe you can make the bunkai the way you want to suit your karate and your own limits.

one movement doesn't have to have just one meaning, for example, our basic kata, Taikyo kyu shodan opening movement is a gedan barai to the left in long forward stance, some people keep the bunkai basic as its a low grade kata and say your blocking a kick then stepping through and punching. I have also seen an example of the same move being used to escape a wrist grab, and even an example of escaping a bear hug.

so to get back on point, I teach bunkai depending on how mature and advanced the student is right from day one, they have to know why they are doing the movements otherwise they are just moving around for the sake of it.

[tallgeese]

My vote: to train bunkai, applications, techniques - whatever you want to call it - from day one of training.

Reasons:

1. We have inherited a fractured, and incomplete study from which our own teachers worked hard to find answers. To NOT pass along information is to ensure that one's school/dojo/style is always starting from the beginning and never evolving.

2. Considering the modern student and fast paced society, in order to retain intelligent students exposure to bunkai from day one engages them mentally.

I agree. Day one. If one is using any kinds of forms they are essentially dance without an understanding of the meaning of the movements. That's the critical difference.

For me, I'm not a big fan of the "interpretation" either. If someone designed these movements, then there should be an answer of what they do. I think randomly assigning what may or may not be the primary function of the movement is guesswork at best.

One of the great things about the FMAs is that often we're still close enough to the source that one can look at a form and go "this is what it is teaching" and often (but not always) it's pretty apparent. There's usually a deeper lesson about the greater strategy of everything as well, a cut can be a cut and a lesson about recovery from vertical. But in both cases the answer should be there given from instructor to student so that learning is maximized.

But that's just me. And an opinion that's changed over the years.

[sensei8]

My vote: to train bunkai, applications, techniques - whatever you want to call it - from day one of training.

Reasons:

1. We have inherited a fractured, and incomplete study from which our own teachers worked hard to find answers. To NOT pass along information is to ensure that one's school/dojo/style is always starting from the beginning and never evolving.

2. Considering the modern student and fast paced society, in order to retain intelligent students exposure to bunkai from day one engages them mentally.

I agree. Day one. If one is using any kinds of forms they are essentially dance without an understanding of the meaning of the movements. That's the critical difference.

For me, I'm not a big fan of the "interpretation" either. If someone designed these movements, then there should be an answer of what they do. I think randomly assigning what may or may not be the primary function of the movement is guesswork at best.

One of the great things about the FMAs is that often we're still close enough to the source that one can look at a form and go "this is what it is teaching" and often (but not always) it's pretty apparent. There's usually a deeper lesson about the greater strategy of everything as well, a cut can be a cut and a lesson about recovery from vertical. But in both cases the answer should be there given from instructor to student so that learning is maximized.

But that's just me. And an opinion that's changed over the years.

Solid posts, both!!

[gunner]

Our Grandmaster teaches the bunkai as he teaches the kata to all levels. If you don't understand the bunkai, what use is the kata.

[Nidan Melbourne]

Our Grandmaster teaches the bunkai as he teaches the kata to all levels. If you don't understand the bunkai, what use is the kata.

Previously I have mentioned that for my dojo we commence our 'official' curriculum for bunkai at Green Belt (5th Kyu) for Seniors and Shodan-Ho for Juniors.

We get our students to give us an explanation to what they think the techniques are used for in the kata. As we have a type of Kumite called Kyogi Kumite which is what I just explained. All of our students never thought of explaining our beginner katas (Taikyoku Jodan/Chudan/Gedan/Kake Uke/Mawashi Ich) or our Intermediate Katas (Gekesai Ich + Ni).

Each kata teaches us different skills and concepts where it is not only our sensei's job to teach us those, but also our own job to have our own interpretation of said kata.

[gunner]

I agree the basic katas and some Pinans really don't need explanation. The techniques of offensive and defensive hip are emphasized most at that level.

[Nidan Melbourne]

I agree the basic katas and some Pinans really don't need explanation. The techniques of offensive and defensive hip are emphasized most at that level.

Ahhh why do you say that the Pinan's and other various basic kata don't need an explanation?

But can't offensive techniques (including Hips) be used defensively? and vice versa?

When I look at the Basic Kata there is so much that you can do, even with the hipwork

[gunner]

Ahhh why do you say that the Pinan's and other various basic kata don't need an explanation?

But can't offensive techniques (including Hips) be used defensively? and vice versa?

When I look at the Basic Kata there is so much that you can do, even with the hipwork

The basic form is a series of low block, middle punch movements in the "I" form. We do sets of both static and dynamic blocks and punches during conditioning exercises. The method and techniques are taught to beginner levels during that time.

With the kata, the offensive and defensive hip motion is emphasized. We spend a lot of time on loading and execution at this point because as the katas get more difficult more time has to be spent on bunkai. For instance, I had a hard time learning Naihanchi Sho until I learned the bunkai. It just didn't make sense.

I didn't invent the method - I'm just a student having fun and trying to learn. That's why I'm here. (Part of my qualification to take the black belt test is to teach. Any suggestions are appreciated !!! )

[bushido_man96]

I'm a fan of learning application from day one. Even if it isn't from a forms standpoint, at least learning some kind of movement application is important.

[yamesu]

I agree the basic katas and some Pinans really don't need explanation. The techniques of offensive and defensive hip are emphasized most at that level.

Ahhh why do you say that the Pinan's and other various basic kata don't need an explanation?

But can't offensive techniques (including Hips) be used defensively? and vice versa?

When I look at the Basic Kata there is so much that you can do, even with the hipwork

Yes this!

Train some judo waza and look at the basic kata, and tell me tht there is no deeper application to the hip movements.