Stretching for flexibility or techniques why bother?

[Alan Armstrong]

Seems that flexibility is an issue for many martial artists. It discourages and frustrates many martial artists from progressing to higher belts. For forms and katas using high kicking techniques looks great but in the real world techniques using too much flexibility can be counterproductive? What are your thoughts? Many MA styles don't bother with flexibility or high kicks, are these styles less important than those that do? Is high kicking a demonstrative sport or a practical combative maneuver?

[DWx]

It's not just about being able to kick high. It's about increased mobility and preventing injury when kicking lower. Being limber is also generally good for your health.

High kicks themselves are a challenge both strength and flexibility-wise but of course they are not advised in a self-defense situation. And as for progressing to higher belts, most examiners would take into account ability and allow students to kick at lower heights if they need to.

[Alan Armstrong]

Good answers DWx. As we both have TKD and TC under our belts I cannot help but agree with you on most points. The kicks of Wing Chun are low. Mobility is not an issue for this style. They move very quickly at an alarmingly fast rate of speed. As they the Wing Chun stylists do well against other none kicking styles, they don't do so well against punching style's that do kicking also. Wing Chun stylists will in time need to re-think and adapt to changing times. Maybe the answer is as simple as Wing Chun fighters needing more training against the kickers? Or incorporating all of the basic martial art kicks? Those that have noticed this abnormality have already added a kicking style to their Wing Chun! Therefore stretching in Wing Chun for kicking purposes would ultimately lead to a reinvention of the wooden practice post (mook jong) sprouting legs.

[sensei8]

Stretching for flexibility or techniques why bother?

Because our body requires it in order to prevent unnecessary injuries whenever performing anything that tasks the body. Especially as one gets older!!

Imho!!

[Alan Armstrong]

Grappling styles don't generally do much stretching. Same holds true for boxers.

Doing stretching exercises to improve flexibility for kicking is normal.

How about stretching to improve your kicking. All of the kicks you are doing are also stretching muscles. What would happen if you reversed the idea of stretching to improve your kicks, to practice kicks so as to improve flexibility?

Same idea once again, but this time practicing techniques to improve your own hyper extended range of movement. You just might find that your forms or katas have a new zest or vigor about them.

There is alot of information on stretching from people that are flexible already. We were all flexible when we were younger and gradually gave up this natural gift.

To regain lost flexibility is a stumbling block for many older martial artists. As the human body seems to get stiffer with age.

I believe older martial artists need to look at stretching in a different way than it is usually seen or practiced.

I believe many martial artists that stretch muscles for gaining flexibility could be on the wrong track.

This is because there stretching routines are intended for the younger student and not for the older ones.

Many years ago I witnessed how a side of beef was tenderized. It wasn't massaged or beaten. It wasn't pulled or stretched. It was however electrocuted.

I am most definitely not suggesting electrocution to stretch muscles. I am however suggesting in my own flexibility routines the use of

(firstly) tensing muscles (as hard as possible)

(secondly) relaxing muscles (as deeply as possible)

(thirdly) stretching muscles (as gently as possible)

Building up each three sections starting from 5 seconds. Adding an additional 5 seconds each time. The muscle that is being stretched will gradually start to get tired.

A test for yourself could be done by using the simple butterfly stretch, while laying on your back with the soles of your feet brought together.

Focus on tiring the muscle with (tension) (relaxing) and (stretching) This methodology has nothing to do with anything but these three things.

I don't believe that heat is the main reason muscles become more flexible when warm, but is only a contributing factor with a tiring muscle.

Muscles need plenty of oxygen and water to promote flexibility. So coordinating contributing factors will enhance your results.

The word 'flexibility' can get over used and loose much of it's meaning.

'Pliability enhancing exercises' might be more interesting.

How about 'Hyper extension movements'

Or 'Reaching beyond normal boundaries'

Perhaps your flexibility has been conditioned out of you, from conforming to sitting on chairs or not playing children games, or simply moving like an adult and not like a child.

These are just a few things to consider why your range of movments are not what they once were.

Martial arts practice is about being as far as possible away from comfort zones. The more difficult and challenging your exercises are the more benefits you will gain from them.

You are as limited as your willingness to push your personal boundaries.

Willpower and determination are a martial artist's greatest assets; these are the things that can take a man or woman and turn them in to a master of martial arts.

Flexibility, pliability, elasticity, every movement you make during your day will enhance or reduce their capabilities. It's your move...

[Nidan Melbourne]

Seems that flexibility is an issue for many martial artists. It discourages and frustrates many martial artists from progressing to higher belts. For forms and katas using high kicking techniques looks great but in the real world techniques using too much flexibility can be counterproductive? What are your thoughts? Many MA styles don't bother with flexibility or high kicks, are these styles less important than those that do? Is high kicking a demonstrative sport or a practical combative maneuver?

Using High Kicks is and isn't counterproductive as it depends on the person using them. I have many friends who are flexible to do those kicks, BUT can't produce the power with those kicks; whilst in comparison i have others who have both flexibility and power (includes strength) in their high kicks.

I don't think that those styles who don't do those high kicks are any less important. This is because they may have a different focus on what they do for technical skills.

If you have the speed behind your kicks then it is fine, as even the every day person may recognise those types of kicks if done slowly.

But as DwX says it is good to have the ability to do those kicks but can be helpful to prevent further injury when performing any type of kick; as the human body will recognise lengthening of the muscle itself.

As much as my style of Karate has some high kicks; me personally i don't do them as much because I have restricted Hip ROM (Range of Motion) even when I pivot sufficiently to Technically and Theoretically kick higher.

[JR 137]

It's easy to kick someone in the head - just pull their head down

I struggle with kicks when using them in combination with my hands due to my lack of hip flexibility. I'm not talking about high kicks; throwing a roundhouse kick to the thighs or knees while punching requires decent flexibility. Not solely to get the kick up there, but to be able to get it there quickly and throw it with authority while keeping your stability and power while also punching. Think jab, cross, roundhouse to the thigh, cross, hook. A lack of hip flexibility will make a huge difference in the amount of time it takes to transition into that kick and recover, then continue with the attack. Flexible people can do this seemlessly without any tells; a person like me has to compensate a bit, causing a break in the flow of the combination.

I'm working on it. If I was flexible enough to be able to kick someone in the head without much compensation, a kick to the thighs wouldn't require much, if any leaning, would be very fast, and hopefully very strong.

Flexibility is good.

[Alan Armstrong]

It is belived that martial arts started in Indian and spread out in to China then Japan and so on.

Flexibility exercises for martial artists or ways to improve a persons range of motion differ from one country to the next.

If India is the birthplace of martial arts, how do they deal with improving flexibility?

In the west martial arts is generally related to Korea, Thailand, Japan and China.

Maybe aspects of martial arts in India have been overlooked from Westerners' The aspect I'm referring to is flexibility.

Straight away and is normal to do so, is to think of flexibility with Yoga with India.

There is Yoga martial arts, but this is not the direction that I want to steer you in.

I'm more interested in the 'How' and not the 'Who' in regards to improving flexibility.

I believe there is still martial art secrets to be found and the question of improving flexibility for martial artists has not been fully answered.

Yes; the young are flexible.

Yes; some people are more flexible than others.

Can flexibility issues be fixed or is it a loosing battle?

I believe just because some of us live in a concrete jungle, that we don't need to become inflexible also.

I have come to the conclusion that to find an answer to a question is to never leave any stone unturned.

Being involved with many martial art styles over the years. Flexibility exercises have not been existent in some of these ma styles and

progressively from style to style it becomes more important; depending on their importance for kicking.

Taekwondo and Hapkido place more emphasis on kicking so more stress is put on flexibility. What they do differently from other ma styles (in my own experience) is to work in pairs, one student helping another student to be more flexible.

This working on improving flexibility in pairs, is the answer. The reason is because of the contradiction of stretching and relaxing at the same time. This is why incorporating ankle weights or weights on pulleys compensate as the missing exercise partner.

1) As you relax the other person stretches you. This can be done while sitting on the floor or leaning against a wall. This is where PNF is used extensively.

2) This should be done on a daily basis. As you relax the other person walks on the back of your legs. This other person holds on to ropes or a bar, to suspended them selves because their full bodyweight could be to much for you to bear. Massage oil is used with this practice. Thailand use this massage technique also.

3) With a bunch of bamboo canes tide together. While gently tapping your body's muscles will increase circulation and help to relax tense muscles.

These are some of the techniques that are used in India to increase flexibility for martial artists.

Hope this information will be helpful for you.

Share your flexibility secrets or concerns, the answer could be more closer to solving than you may think!

YouTube should have some information on these useful (from India) Stretching or flexibility techniques.