Incorrect dojo terminology?

[Karate_John]

Ron Van Clief's, Chinese Goju?

Senpai is pronounced sem-pie. Sempi/Sempai is a bad translation from the early 1950's, it's part of the culture now so was never changed in many schools. Don't be surprised if you hear Dai Sempai (as in most senior student)... I hate it but it's used.

As for Oss/Uhsss, Lupin1 explained that well. A lot of schools in the USA use Oss for everything, I almost never hear Hai.

I could handle "Dai Sempai", but thats not whats being used. It's "Dai Sempi."

As an anime/japanese fan myself, it grates at my sanity to hear Sempi, and nearly kills me to have to say it myself.

I wont go in correcting people. Though, the instructor and the students all seem pretty laid back. They even asked what japanese for "No" was. I couldnt remember at the time though.

es, its Ron Van Cliefs. In fact our instructor was given the title Kyoshi by him personally and our dojo has had a visit from him. Unfortunately that was before I was there.

Yea, I understand. If they mispronounce it that bad, it would make my ears bleed as well. I watch too much anime

But from what I know about Ron Van Clief you're getting solid Karate training. I heard some stories from his Nisei Goju days, I'll tell you he was a heck of a fighter.

[sensei8]

Forgive me for saying this...

It's correct in THAT dojo!!

The rest is immaterial, imho.

The only one that has the right to bring this type of thing, if even then, to the CI would be a Senior Dan from the Hombu/Honbu/Governing Body. Even after that, it's the CI's right in totality.

The forest doesn't have to always be in the way of the trees, or vise versa.

[sensei8]

Osu or Oss is used in place of hai in many schools. Hai is typically Okinawan, whereas Osu is typically Japanese. The biggest Osu users are the Kyokushin schools and their spinoffs, although some Shotokan schools use it regularly. Is your Goju school Okinawan Goju or Japanese? Okinawan Goju is far more common, but I've heard of Japanese Goju (mainly Goju Kai).

And yes, Sempai/Senpai (pronounced sem pie) is correct, and means senior student.

My advice is don't rock the boat. You're new. Correcting people your first day (figuratively) isn't a great way to earn any respect/trust/allies/etc. Give it some time, then ask about the Sempai thing.

Solid post!!

In addition, I'd not bring it up with any Sempai, and definitely not to the CI; now or ever!! It's quite...well...rude!! You're new, so the time for now is to listen, and listen only!!

[Nidan Melbourne]

Its a mixed bag. Many schools use Oos/Osu in lieu of Hai. Personally I don't like it when people use Oos/Osu when they are saying yes to something. But I have always trained in a dojo that has Oos/Osu as a greeting and Hai as 'Yes' so hearing different makes me cringe. But I do acknowledge that there are schools that do operate differently and when I go train there I will use their variation of it.

We have 1 student that recently gained his black belt. And he originally used the word 'Hai', until he started going to Gasshaku's run by Isshinryu Karate where he picked up the habit of saying Oos/Osu instead of Hai. And he has been told off a couple of times by sensei for doing it.

Then Senpai/Sempai is what we use and haven't heard anyone use the Senpi variation as of yet.

[JR 137]

Osu or Oss is used in place of hai in many schools. Hai is typically Okinawan, whereas Osu is typically Japanese. The biggest Osu users are the Kyokushin schools and their spinoffs, although some Shotokan schools use it regularly. Is your Goju school Okinawan Goju or Japanese? Okinawan Goju is far more common, but I've heard of Japanese Goju (mainly Goju Kai).

And yes, Sempai/Senpai (pronounced sem pie) is correct, and means senior student.

My advice is don't rock the boat. You're new. Correcting people your first day (figuratively) isn't a great way to earn any respect/trust/allies/etc. Give it some time, then ask about the Sempai thing.

Solid post!!

In addition, I'd not bring it up with any Sempai, and definitely not to the CI; now or ever!! It's quite...well...rude!! You're new, so the time for now is to listen, and listen only!!

I wouldn't say don't ever bring it up. There's a respectful and non-knowitall way of doing it. But you've got to know the people you're asking, and they've got to know you. Just like a good joke, all in the delivery. Saying "you're mispronouncing Senpai" isn't good. Saying "I've heard other people say senpai; is that the same thing or something different?" could work, in the right context with the right people.

[The Pred]

I agree never correct the CI or any sensei on the floor. However, if you stick with this dojo and show loyalty. Then perhaps if you get a one on one personal time with your CI, then perhaps that would be the time to do so. But never on the floor, even if you think you're correct and that person is wrong.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Unless one trains under a Japanese or Okinawan sensei, it matters very little if terminology is not correctly pronounced. What is important is for everyone to understand one another and most of alll being able to do the techniques.

It is karate and not a language lesson. It is not very reasonable to expect people to correctly pronounce terms in a language they do not know. Learn and use the correct way for yourself but do not expect or attempt to change what others say. Not everyone is able, willing or even interested in changing anyway, especially if it is something they learned a certain way from their own teacher who probably was not a Japanese speaker themselves anyway.

[Darkranger85]

Unless one trains under a Japanese or Okinawan sensei, it matters very little if terminology is not correctly pronounced. What is important is for everyone to understand one another and most of alll being able to do the techniques.

It is karate and not a language lesson. It is not very reasonable to expect people to correctly pronounce terms in a language they do not know. Learn and use the correct way for yourself but do not expect or attempt to change what others say. Not everyone is able, willing or even interested in changing anyway, especially if it is something they learned a certain way from their own teacher who probably was not a Japanese speaker themselves anyway.

I respectfully have to disagree.

The fact that the dojos hold on to traditions such as bowing to the teachers and even the front of the dojo, says that the cultural aspect of Karate is somewhere in there.

If you are going to hand out a list of Japanese Terms that you need to know, then I believe those terms should be accurate.

If it's not at all about the cultural side of things, then it could all be done in English and without the oriental traditions.

That's how I see it anyway. I respect that others have differing opinions and thats fine.

@JR: Thank you for saying that, I agree 100%. Correcting them is not in and of itself rude. It's all in the manner, timing, and reasoning that you use in doing it.

[sensei8]

Osu or Oss is used in place of hai in many schools. Hai is typically Okinawan, whereas Osu is typically Japanese. The biggest Osu users are the Kyokushin schools and their spinoffs, although some Shotokan schools use it regularly. Is your Goju school Okinawan Goju or Japanese? Okinawan Goju is far more common, but I've heard of Japanese Goju (mainly Goju Kai).

And yes, Sempai/Senpai (pronounced sem pie) is correct, and means senior student.

My advice is don't rock the boat. You're new. Correcting people your first day (figuratively) isn't a great way to earn any respect/trust/allies/etc. Give it some time, then ask about the Sempai thing.

Solid post!!

In addition, I'd not bring it up with any Sempai, and definitely not to the CI; now or ever!! It's quite...well...rude!! You're new, so the time for now is to listen, and listen only!!

I wouldn't say don't ever bring it up. There's a respectful and non-knowitall way of doing it. But you've got to know the people you're asking, and they've got to know you. Just like a good joke, all in the delivery. Saying "you're mispronouncing Senpai" isn't good. Saying "I've heard other people say senpai; is that the same thing or something different?" could work, in the right context with the right people.

Solid post!!

Bring it up, just be sure you do it like JR 137 is suggesting. Anything short of that might get you..."You've been in the MA...how long now?!?!", or something to that effect.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Years of experience training under native Okinawan teachers who spoke only Japanese tell me that they cared far more about passing on karate correctly than how well their foreign students could pronounce japanese. They certainly are surprised, proud and thankful if one can but they rarely insist on it.

Having learned to speak and read the language as personal but separate endeavour, I have come to the conclusion that it is both unfair and idealistic to expect people to pronounce the native terminolgy precisely and it would be somewhat pompous and futile to attempt to insist on correcting them. Then again I have been told that I have "gone native" more than once.