No youtube for you!

[Judodad_karateson]

The main Leadership of my Karate style are strongly against posting videos online. I mentioned looking up a new Kata on youtube, and classmate told me I'd never find anything because of this. Someone in this forum told me the same thing a week later.

The question is, WHY? Fear the techniques will be stolen? Concern that people won't attend class with online resources? Or is it simply that their generation isn't always the biggest fan of new technology?

I respect their wishes, but I question the wisdom of this. 2-3 nights a week just isn't enough for someone serious about Martial Arts. Solo training is a must, and online videos can be a wonderful way to supplement that training.

Thoughts?

[Wado Heretic]

Generally two reasons, beyond cultural nuances, exist for not wanting material to be released on the internet.

1. Centralisation and control of image: Most organisations against Youtube and internet materials often have a strong central leadership. This leadership may in turn wish to maintain strict control of the image of the organisation and system. Materials recorded at one point in time, will become unreflective at a later date, and also would allow any members to post materials without the blessing of the central leadership. It makes controlling image very difficult.

2. Piracy: Essentially, martial artists, like any providers of a service want to get paid for the service they provide. Free online material undermines the offline markets ability to demand competitive rates. Although people will always want the offline resource, as one needs people to spar with and just the general fun of a class, they might be less inclined to put in as much money to said costed resources if they have a free supplement.

Internet material is a double edged sword, and some choose to avoid it's disadvantages, because they weight them as being greater than the benefits. Now, in some ways one can argue it is a tool for the preservation of knowledge for posterity. However, that argument has little power when the tradition has a strong living population carrying it forward. Plus, to some traditionalists, they had to train without the benefit of these tools so can perhaps not understand the desire for them.

[JR 137]

I see a few issues with it that may not be why your org doesn't want it...

1. There's no quality control when people post this stuff. When you post it, you're representing your organization. Unless there's zero mention of the style and absolutely no representation of it - gi patches, t-shirt, poster/banner in the background, etc., you're representing the organization possibly without realizing it. Get a few people who aren't too good or are making mistakes, and the entire organization doesn't look good.

2. If putting some stuff up is ok, where is the line drawn? Some people like to video everything and anything and post it. I've seen black belt promotions that are posted. A huge no-no IMO. Does the poster have everyone who appears' permission? What if you videoed your kid, and mine is right next to him/her in class? I don't want my kids on YouTube unless I post it myself.

3. The bickering and insults in the comments are out of control. This comes back to representing your organization. Look up anything on YouTube and read the comments. Try to ignore them when they're calling you and your style every name in the book and then some just for fun.

I think it's easier for an organization to make a blanket no statement than try and set up restrictions/regulations. I'd have that policy if I were in charge. The only way I'd allow it is if there were zero references to the organization, due to the above and so much more. That's just me though. From what I've heard, my organization isn't too keen on YouTube videos.

[Luther unleashed]

There is an option to not allow comments FYI on YouTube guys. I have seen place saybthinhs like no video, but allow pictures and things like that. I not only welcome people posting videos of any of my classes but I post videos at least monthly on our style, videos from class, and so on. I personally feel its a great part of our technology and helps to grow your school or art. We have always had books, and I feel its very similar. I personally have a great deal of confidence in what I do in class so I encourage video recording and pictures at all levels, from class to testings.

I myself have really learned a lot of different ways to do things and had my mind opened up from videos. Taking care of your image is a descent reason to not want videos our there BUT I'm just more of a let it all hang out there kind of guy guess. That stinks for you if your looking to see stuff at home about your art or school though.

[Bulltahr]

It's an interesting subject. I have done YouTube searches to find certain katas to confirm what a book with 20 photos and an uncorresponding numbered description fail to explain clearly. Now any one can go and order just about any style's books and manuals on Amazon or whatever, so keeping it "in house" doesn't wash with me.

If organizations got themselves together with an "official" You tube page/channel, disabling comments would solve the "troll" problems, and anyway, you can set you tube videos to "private" and only provide to "approved" users for use as a reference, Syllabus, dojo promos, sparring etc , the poster would need to consider which is suitable for public access and which for members only.

To me, if the technique is sound then why not?

I do cringe a bit when I see youtube videos of belt gradings tho, especially of shodans and above.

[JR 137]

Luther and Bullthar -

Very interesting posts and points. I definitely respect your views. I'm all for official videos from organizations. I'd love to see Kaicho Tadashi Nakamura and/or his son to release official Seido videos. Someone from Seido made a history of Seido video with their blessing. Turned out very well (except that it was chopped up into 5 min or so increments).

I think official videos are the way to go and can pretty much only help. Kyokushin has some great videos on YouTube. Not sure if they're pirated or not, which is a whole other ball of wax.

YouTube search Kyokushin kumite training. There's a great one that's about 90 minutes long with Hajime Kazumi. There's some great combos that I'd love to work on with heavy bag and incorporate into my sparring.

I haven't asked any high ranking black belts and/or CIs, but I'm assuming it's a quality control and/or privacy for others issue and not a secret society thing. At least if they're rational anyway.

[sensei8]

As the Kaicho [President] of the SKKA; Shindokan's governing body, I say this to the OP...

Do what YOU want to do!! You're a student, therefore, you're not the property of any entity whatsoever!!

Your MA journey is YOURS, and yours alone. Yes, you're a student of a Sensei, who's affiliated with your styles governing body, and they might be compassionate about many things, none greater than another, but at times a governing body/Sensei can't see the forest because of all of those darn trees; they keep getting in the way of what they're suppose to do: TEACH!!

Teach, and not preach things that interfere with a student's MA betterment. Our student body within the SKKA, is just over 10,000, and the SKKA has better things to do than to create some rules and regulations that suppress a students MA journey.

Yes, the SKKA might not feel comfortable about the who, what, where, when, why, and how a student increases their MA betterment, but the SKKA knows, and endorses our students to seek that which improves their MA betterment, no matter the source.

Our Soke made this clear...

"As we a students ONLY Sensei? No, we are not!" Sounds pretty cut dry and clear to me. He knew that while Shindokan is an effective MA, he knew that Shindokan wasn't the only effective MA, nor is it the only effective means. Means to learning, and means to teaching, and means to receiving information; THEN, the student is FREE to choose without fearing the wrath of their Sensei and/or their governing body.

Learn on!!

[Nidan Melbourne]

I can understand why they may not want to have videos to be shared online in terms of say kata. As it can be seen as a privacy issue.

Judodad_karateson may I ask what style you do?

I do Goju-Ryu and I know there are hundreds of videos relating to our kata on Youtube. But the difficult side of it is where there are minor variations to those kata even though they are from the same style.

I know my sensei has released some videos for our club in which members of the club can see what a kata is supposed to look for us.

[armanox]

As a rule of thumb, if you are posting video you should have the approval of all of those involved in the video (same goes for photographs - it's the law in the US).

The biggest problem with trying to use online video is indeed quality control. Make sure you trust the source of the video. Also, trolls are plentiful (although my videos seem to be mostly troll free, with one exception that I thought was absurd (even if the video did suck). The user said "malo pero muy malo es el peor kusanku sho que he visto te doy un 10% de aprovacion, debes ser degradado a kyu 9,por no saber ni la esencia del shorin ryu ni menos del padre que es el shuri- te pues de este linaje biene el kusanku sho y claro tampoco sabes del tomri- te ,adios"

[Luther unleashed]

As a rule of thumb, if you are posting video you should have the approval of all of those involved in the video (same goes for photographs - it's the law in the US).

The biggest problem with trying to use online video is indeed quality control. Make sure you trust the source of the video. Also, trolls are plentiful (although my videos seem to be mostly troll free, with one exception that I thought was absurd (even if the video did suck). The user said "malo pero muy malo es el peor kusanku sho que he visto te doy un 10% de aprovacion, debes ser degradado a kyu 9,por no saber ni la esencia del shorin ryu ni menos del padre que es el shuri- te pues de este linaje biene el kusanku sho y claro tampoco sabes del tomri- te ,adios"

I mean this respectfully, but you do NOT need somebody's permission to video or photograph people as long as it's in a public place. Also, I have never heard a complaint when I have done it. I mean, if I'm taking a picture and 70 people are in the photo, you can't insist I get permission from 70 people right?

If you are saying that taking them is fine, but posting them is not, again I can't imagine getting 70 people to ok a video I make to put online. I also can't imagine having great video of something but I can't post it because 3 people out of 70 left before I got through them all for approval, now I'm stuck.

Something a good deal of people don't probably think about is that when you use things like YouTube, Google owns this and it is almost certain to show up in the first page of a search on Google. Part of the advertising isn't just the video, but getting your name/school out there.