Boxing training for kung fu?

[hansenator]

I've been thinking about kung fu punches (Choy Li Fut) and ways to train them, not just so they look good but to be able to actually use them. It occurred to me that western boxers are some of the best punchers around, it's what they do and they do it well, and I figured they know a thing or two about becoming a proficient puncher. So I started to wonder if there's training methods or lessons a kung fu stylist could adopt from boxers and I'd like to see what other people think.

The heavy bag, or some kind of impact training device, is a no brainer. Everyone has something like that. I also like shadow boxing, it seems like a way to get a lot of repetition and use some creativity in a less structured type of drill. The speed bag is a lot of fun to work on but I'm not sure how it applies to kung fu or where I would put one but the double end bag is something I can put in the garage easily enough and I'm deciding what I might do with something like that.

Beyond just new training implements to play with though, can anyone offer drills or an approach to training to really develop hand striking? I'm thinking mostly about just the hand strikes right now, along with some footwork and kicking too I suppose.

My goal is to develop the ease of movement, fluidity, and spontaneity you see in boxers but using kung fu technique. I've become less interested in fancy techniques over the years or being technically "correct" in the sense that it looks good on stage. Mostly I want to develop powerful basics that feel natural and that I can use with confidence. Thanks.

[bushido_man96]

This is a great idea. I think one of the best things you could do to develop your strikes is find a partner to spar or semi-spar with. Working with Boxers would be a great benefit, but many times they train with big gloves on, which will affect your ability to use your hands in your defensive techniques, and thus affecting your transition to offense. If you check out some of stonecrusher96's videos in the Chinese Martial Arts forum, you'll see some great drilling ideas, but you will also see how they can be nullified once you start training with Boxing gloves.

So, with that in mind, what I would suggest is to get some nice MMA style gloves with the open fingers, and some good, Boxing type headgear to absorb blows well, and do some light to medium contact sparring where you try to apply your defenses on the attacker in a live situation. And don't just spar, drill/spar. Have him start with a jab, and work on recognizing it and defending it. Then work up to a jab/cross combination you defend. The better you get, the more you can start doing some more spontaneous sparring sessions to see how you've come with your drilling.

That's what I would recommend. Please let us know how it goes, and what you learn!

[hansenator]

I like those ideas. I think it's important to get experience like that and, at least from what I've seen, most classes don't do enough.

Unfortunately, I don't know any boxers and I'm still at a beginner level in the kung fu class so there isn't much sparring yet. I'm still at the 'tool development' stage in this style.

I was in a JKD class for several years and they really emphasized footwork, body mechanics, movement, coordination, etc. After a while it becomes natural and you don't really think about it. You just move around and try different things and experiment but the movement qualities are there.

I'd like to reach that stage in kung fu now. The technique feels less natural and requires more effort and I'm trying to understand how it would be applied in a live environment. I'm kind of playing around with it and trying to get a feel for it but, at some level, I'm also wondering "would this be considered proper kung fu technique?" I think I'm still trying to understand the relation between formal exercises and practical usage.

[sensei8]

Boxing training for Kung-Fu? Why not!! More than that, it's quite important. Imho, a well rounded MAist needs to also train in...

Boxing

Wrestling/Judo/BJJ

...besides ones core style; getting to a more well rounded knowledge. In a fight, sometimes during the fight, you're going to either punch or you're going to end up on the ground. The prepared mind!!

So, Kung-Fu, as your core style, mixed in with some boxing and some grappling...man oh man...sky's the limits!!

[hansenator]

My thoughts were to look at the way boxers train and what do they do to develop the qualities they have. In this case, their fluidity, grace, and apparent east of movement. Then adapt those training methods for use with kung fu technique. The goal being to internalize the movement and body mechanics of kung fu to the point where I'm no longer 'doing' kung fu. And there's no reason to limit it to punching either. I'd be interested in how kickboxers train and grapplers too. Not so much to learn their techniques but to adapt their training methods for my own use.

It's a hold-over from my JKD days. Their idea was to look at what the best are doing and see what it is that makes them so good. One style might have wrist locks for example but it's not what they 'do'. Instead, look at how wrist lock specialists train, what are they doing that makes them so successful? That's how Thai pads came into use in the JKD community. They looked at the most successful kickboxers and found an awesome training tool for conditioning and developing your power base.

[vaporman]

Want to get good at punching then punch, day after day after day......at some point you will look back and see incredible progress relative to the time and effort put in it..

[sensei8]

Want to get good at punching then punch, day after day after day......at some point you will look back and see incredible progress relative to the time and effort put in it..

Good advice...as a reminder, don't forget to pay attention to proper mechanics and the like at all time. To flail or not to flail, that's the question.

Imho!!

[hansenator]

Want to get good at punching then punch, day after day after day......at some point you will look back and see incredible progress relative to the time and effort put in it..

I think there's a lot of truth to that. I'm just trying to avoid being one of those people who look good in demos but can't actually use it.

Most of us have probably encountered people who would say "Hey, that's not how you're supposed to do it" if your technique doesn't look like it would in forms practice. I think it's more important to understand what the forms are trying to teach and then be able to apply it in a realistic and improvisational manner.

I've heard the idea that "This is how you practice it but in a real situation you just do whatever you need to." This is fine in theory but I'm not comfortable with just assuming it will work out that way if I've never actually practiced it that way. In addition to practicing "proper" technique, I think it's also important to practice the way you would actually use it in a real encounter.

I think one advantage boxers have is that there's only a handful of fairly basic techniques they need to work on. The art part is all about the application - how well they can use it while under pressure. So I'm trying to learn more about how people approach it from that mindset.