What rank to start up a dojo?

[Spartacus Maximus]

I am probably at least two years from earning earning shodan and I have been considering teaching. My teacher fully supports me and even hopes that I will become his representative. As you can see, this is a very high expectation and an honour I am not sure I can fulfill.

I know that in Japan/Okinawa at least a 5th Dan is required to start teaching unassisted. Usually one also needs permission from one's sensei or the hombu dojo. What about outside Japan?

What would you say is the minimum rank or number of years experience to be considered credible as the head of a dojo

Bear in mind that I am referring to starting a branch dojo while continuing to train under my teacher, not becoming completely indepedent.

[Karate_John]

Honestly it really depends on the organization. But generally the rank of Sandan is the expected minimum rank to be able to promote students in kyu ranks. Shodan's & Nidan's usually can instruct, but bring in senor ranks during testing.

With that said if your Sensei supports you, there is really no problem.

[sensei8]

Honestly it really depends on the organization. But generally the rank of Sandan is the expected minimum rank to be able to promote students in kyu ranks. Shodan's & Nidan's usually can instruct, but bring in senor ranks during testing.

With that said if your Sensei supports you, there is really no problem.

Solid post!!

[Nidan Melbourne]

Teaching is great experience but you can start teaching now under supervision of your sensei at the hombu dojo or at a branch dojo if there is a senior enough person to supervise. I have been teaching since a nikyu (I was a sankyu or blue belt for my first classes and received my nikyu or brown belt at a later class). My sensei supervised that class along with the other instructors that were way more senior than me.

if your going to be teaching a branch of the school for your sensei best be a Nidan. But still obviously you will still send them to the hombu dojo to grade them.

If you want to own your own school definitely be a minimum sandan. But for time of experience you will want about 15-20 years experience of training + several years teaching.

I say 15-20 years training experience because you will at least have learnt in depth of the techniques/kata/kumite/kihon that your style contains. Usually to some people they will be seen as credible, if they have trained and taught for a long time.

Many parents of students i teach have mentioned to me that when i either open a branch dojo for my sensei or open my own dojo that they will train under me. Even though i've trained for 13 years and a nidan they still want me to teach their student at my own dojo. It is because they know that i am tough on students to make sure they do techniques properly and effectively, yet still show the respect and kindness to students. And I understand the different uses of techniques

[Spartacus Maximus]

I like to hear opinions of experienced people and teachers from different countries and areas. The web and most of what I read on the subject shows that it is common for lower dan ranks to run a dojo.

Browsing through several websites of reputable schools in Europe and North America, it seems that 3 or 4th dan is quite common. I could probably be able to train with my sensei at least yearly but I could not ask every person I teach to fly to Okinawa/Japan to earn promotions. How far can a 3rd or 4th dan sensei promote his own students before referring to his senior fellows?

I am especially interested in SENSEI8's point of view, as he is the head of a school. For him and everyone else, what is the minimum rank you would allow to represent your system and teach it at a branch dojo?

[jaypo]

I know a lot of Shodans in my system that are head and shoulders above some Sandans in other systems, so I'd say that the skill level is more important than the rank. If the system is credible, then the rank should reflect the level of skill from the instructor.

[Harkon72]

I know of some schools that can give "Instructor" belts as soon as two years into training; as soon as a green belt is obtained. In our Dojos you cannot assist until you are a brown belt and you cannot take a class until you are at least 2nd Dan.

[ps1]

This is really a question for your instructor. Things vary so much from one system and school to the next.

In BJJ, you can begin assisting at blue belt and open an academy at purple. That represents, on average, about 6 years of training.

My original Shotokan instructor opened his first dojo as a brown belt. Of course, that was in the early 70s and karate wasn't as well proliferated as it is now.

To me there are two things that will go into this decision.

1. Are you an excellent instructor who is able to teach the basics very well?

2. Does your instructor give you permission to teach on your own?

Everything else is superfluous.

Also, get some good books on the subject of running an academy on your own BEFORE you open up. There's alot more to it that you may suspect.

[Spartacus Maximus]

As of now I don't think I would have the skills to represent my style or be worthy of my sensei's expectations. His skill, accuracy and power are truly amazing and frightening. His high expectations and encouragement puts pressure on me to try my very best to learn and understand every detail.

Teaching has always been something I wanted to do. I just have my doubts as to whether or not I can meet my teachers expectations. I don't know how long I have left to learn before I have to move away. This isn't my first experience but I just started to relearn my original style in a different way with parts I was never taught.

[Wado Heretic]

I believe PS1 and others have hit the nail on the head; if your teacher has confidence in you, and you have the competency then you are fine to instruct, the belt has become superfluous.

Saying that, however, politics can hurt you and the darker your belt colour; often the more weight you might find you have to throw around with the people it matters to.

To speak in more general terms; for any one considering the martial arts as a career, not just the OP. If you rent a space to teach out of, like a gym room or a court of some sort, than I would argue Shodan is sufficient. Customer wise; many see black belt and are reassured. Plus at Shodan you should have the power to grade relative beginners independently, and have enough of a grasp of the material for senior Kyu grades to come train with you. I hate to talk money, but if you need to pay for space you need to be commercially viable. A black belt gives that viability in many cases.

If you are looking into renting a permanent space, or buying a space, for a purpose built dojo. I would argue a minimum of Sandan, but even then I would call that a gamble. For simple business purposes you need a degree of independence; and often, in many circles this truly does not come until Yondan or Godan. Without the ability to grade people into the Ranks of Yudansha, you have no ability to grow your business that is your dojo. Your Yudansha are your growing ability; they are your most consistent customers, they are your potential instructors for running more classes, and they are the people you may need to utilise to open up more spaces.

End of the day though; I'd like to issue a warning to both sides of the coin. For those of you who might be considering helping your instructors expand; please make sure you are not being exploited. For those with students they hope will help expand your business; treat them fairly and as human beings, they will bite you back otherwise.