Why do experienced Shotokan practicioners love Heian Kata?

[GojuRyu Bahrain]

Why do experienced Shotokan practitioners (15 or more years experience and advanced dan grades) indulge themselves in practicing the Heian Kata so much? (they love to do that in every Shotokan dojo I know )

I don't understand it - it is simply boring...I mean, in which other style or discipline do people repeat the most basic exercises over and over? To what end? What can be learned that cannot be learned better in the more advanced Kata?

Wouldn't the training time be better spent with something new?

[Harkon72]

You have just shown with the post above that your perception of Karate training is very different from my own and many other traditional karateka. The perfection of simplicity is where the art lies. The depth of application in body, mind and spirit can reach the most advanced level through the repetition of the building blocks of the Karatedo. This is where the art is. For me, as I return to even the most basic kata and the most simple looking kihon; I strive to reach a no-mind, a unity of all the three elements of my art and style; your body, mind and spirit are moved by the non attachment of effort to learn what is new; but to take the bread and butter and make it your Budo. You cannot achieve a calm mind if you look to remember anything; it must flow from your karate. We do learn new kata; but the art remains in the most elementary; where the style is purest.

[jaypo]

A couple of reasons come to mind. The first is fitness. Doing the Heian series back to back will work up quite a sweat! Another is that as you said, they're made up of (mostly) basic movements, so it sharpens up your basics. Another reason for me, personally, is that I love to take a basic movement and create a complex or advanced application from it. For example, in Heian Shodan, the first movement is left gedan barai, step punch. Then, turn to the right, etc. But turning that gedan barai into a forearm strike to the solar plexus, punch, then use your punching arm to grab the gi and throw the attacker to the right (instead of it being a gedan barai). This is just a simple example, but it's fun to create those kinds of situations from something so basic.

As my sensei tells us, there are a million different applications I can teach from each kata.

[GojuRyu Bahrain]

Thank you for your replies so far! I am not arguing against practicing fundamental subjects at all, but not at the cost of progress.

Perfection etc... In the 17 or so years after reaching my black belt I have learned the Goju Ryu syllabus. All the Kata, all the Kihon, most throws, chokes, and sabaki and I go through this material in ever finer iterations. And thus I get better, without arguments... But in Shotokan, why would I reiterate through the basics without ever progressing further when I haven't even learned all the Kata? When I don't even know at least one application for every move? When I don't know the Katas left - right - forward - backwards? It is counter-intuitive and - to me - seems quite afraid of moving on.

In this regard envision a math class in school where they never progress from addition....no subtractions, multiplications, fractions, derivatives, integrals, vectors etc... No progress, never learning math, just getting faster at addition. Seems quite pointless.

Regarding traditional Karateka.... before Funakoshi, the traditionalists didn't practice the Heian Kata at all One might argue that their tradition is older (and thus more traditional).

[bushido_man96]

At one time, the Heian series were considered a complete self-defense system in and of themselves. So, what more does one need? The idea of learning a new form for each rank level attained is fairly recent, over the last 100 years.

[sensei8]

Boring? Hardly!

To ignore that which is basic is to ignore growth!! The most basic of Kata's can teach many advanced applications. But one must look for them, discover them, and appreciate them.

No Taikyoku series...no Heian! No Ten No Kata...then no Taikyoku.

Without the Heian series, there's no Tekki series, Without the Tekki series, there's NO advanced Kata's. No Bassai Dai/Sho, no Kanku Dai/Sho, no Hangetsu, no Gojushiho Dai/Sho, no Enpi, no Jion, no Jiin, no Jitte, no Meikyo, no Nijushiho, no Wankan, no Gankaku, no Sochin, no Chinte, and no Unsu...no nothing that's advanced!!

Embrace basics, even in Kata!!

[Nidan Melbourne]

No kata is boring. Even the most basic of kata can be extremely advanced in themselves.

I do goju-ryu and our taikyoku kata (with Sanchin Dachi and zenkutsu dachi as stances, except taikyoku gedan and mawashi ichi). They look easy yet they can be extremely complex with the movements.

[Zaine]

No kata is boring. Even the most basic of kata can be extremely advanced in themselves.

I do goju-ryu and our taikyoku kata (with Sanchin Dachi and zenkutsu dachi as stances, except taikyoku gedan and mawashi ichi). They look easy yet they can be extremely complex with the movements.

I disagree. I've done some pretty boring Kata. That being said, I've never done a Kata that wasn't useful to me. Sometimes boring is something you just have to look past.

[Nidan Melbourne]

No kata is boring. Even the most basic of kata can be extremely advanced in themselves.

I do goju-ryu and our taikyoku kata (with Sanchin Dachi and zenkutsu dachi as stances, except taikyoku gedan and mawashi ichi). They look easy yet they can be extremely complex with the movements.

I disagree. I've done some pretty boring Kata. That being said, I've never done a Kata that wasn't useful to me. Sometimes boring is something you just have to look past.

maybe it is just a perspective on specific kata.

[Safroot]

Boring? Hardly!

To ignore that which is basic is to ignore growth!! The most basic of Kata's can teach many advanced applications. But one must look for them, discover them, and appreciate them.

No Taikyoku series...no Heian! No Ten No Kata...then no Taikyoku.

Without the Heian series, there's no Tekki series, Without the Tekki series, there's NO advanced Kata's. No Bassai Dai/Sho, no Kanku Dai/Sho, no Hangetsu, no Gojushiho Dai/Sho, no Enpi, no Jion, no Jiin, no Jitte, no Meikyo, no Nijushiho, no Wankan, no Gankaku, no Sochin, no Chinte, and no Unsu...no nothing that's advanced!!

Embrace basics, even in Kata!!

Solid post