disciplining students

[Tkdampbjj]

Do you guys and gals think that giving pushups or mountain climbers when students act out, dont listen, or dont say yes sir is un justified or wrong?

[Karate_John]

Na, It's a tool like any other and has it's place. The key is using it appropriately for the desired results.

[sensei8]

No discipline should ever HURT, imho!! Other than that, discipline as you see appropriate.

[mal103]

I've tried it but it didn't really work, they either used it as a "look at me" type thing and laugh about it or they felt singled out and embaressed which can be a form of bullying.

I go with exclusion now and make the offender sit out for a minute or two.

It's normally when the lesson isn't flowing well so keep them moving and they won't get a chance to play up, tonight during a brief pause in my lesson most of them fell back to get a drink and catch their breath!

I emphasise that every second spent telling someone to be quiet or get back in line is time the rest of the class are losing, if they waste other peoples time then they can sit out. If this doesn't work then do something fun while they sit out...

[danbong]

The problem with giving pushups or mountain climbers as punishment is that we try to tell the students that those exercises are good for you and they should be motivated to do them on their own initiative. So when we us them as punishment we are sending the conflicting signal that the students should dislike doing the exercises.

[Hawkmoon]

There is a bit of a debat about an incident and what was done here:

http://www.karateforums.com/instructor-kicked-my-son-as-punishment-now-what-vt45563.html?highlight=

The main view in this thread and 'this' thread is no assault, no physical contact kick slap punch etc.

Now here in the UK there is a legal need to have been CRB checked;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disclosure_and_Barring_Service

No idea for other parts of the world, sorry.

To hit a child is also wrong under EU (European Union) law;

http://hub.coe.int/what-we-do/society/corporal-punishment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment

... so to punish if there is a need is done in other ways, extra push ups, or sit ups, the idea is to trigger a cycle of 'peer pressure' form within the group.

If trust and and respect can be gained it should be protected and promoted at every opportunity, it will always be difficult, always hard and stressful.

Be dedicated and it will be a rewarding.

Sorry to say, nothing in life is easy!

[DWx]

TBH you can use them and sometimes it is necessary but like danbong said all it does is make people associate pushups with a punishment and not a good thing. I think it's better to ask the person to sit out or threaten (and then remove) a good thing that was going to happen such as a game you were going to play at end of the class.

If you are going to dish them out for kids (or even adults) instead of punishment for the single kid, make everyone do it as peer pressure can be really effective.

[Nidan Melbourne]

well exercise-based punishments can be contradicting the message that your giving them that you should do these because they are good for you.

Especially for children, as they are learning you don't want to make exercise (like mountain climbers, push ups etc) look bad. If they keep acting up and you give them more of those exercises, they won't want to do it and will associate exercise with punishment (ergo bad) . So in the long run they may not want to exercise because of that one instructor gave them lots of punishments in terms of exercise.

But for adults, its fair game because they already have a basis that exercise is good.

Like DWx said, you should punish the whole group instead of the single person. This would make my above statements different. If you punish the whole group they will be on the ball of that any bad behaviour gets us all punished.

BUT what i do to ensure that they don't start thinking "oh that sempai is so mean he gives us all push-ups because 'Johnny' misbehaved". I actually explain why i punished the whole group and make sure that all of them are aware that bad behavior isn't acceptable inside the dojo

[Tkdampbjj]

well exercise-based punishments can be contradicting the message that your giving them that you should do these because they are good for you.

Especially for children, as they are learning you don't want to make exercise (like mountain climbers, push ups etc) look bad. If they keep acting up and you give them more of those exercises, they won't want to do it and will associate exercise with punishment (ergo bad) . So in the long run they may not want to exercise because of that one instructor gave them lots of punishments in terms of exercise.

But for adults, its fair game because they already have a basis that exercise is good.

Like DWx said, you should punish the whole group instead of the single person. This would make my above statements different. If you punish the whole group they will be on the ball of that any bad behaviour gets us all punished.

BUT what i do to ensure that they don't start thinking "oh that sempai is so mean he gives us all push-ups because 'Johnny' misbehaved". I actually explain why i punished the whole group and make sure that all of them are aware that bad behavior isn't acceptable inside the dojo

This is what ive been told by the owner of the school I teach at. I usually give them for discipline with my advanced students when I dont get my yes sirs. I give a lot of calisthenics between drills as well though. I like them more than sitting down an unruly student because atleast they improve their fitness.

I remember a lot of my instructors using excercise to discipline.

[sensei8]

If all fails...

Suspend them, if warranted!! Hopefully that will get their attention. If not, expel them!! I've no ambiguity whatsoever in either. And if they quit because I've suspended them, then so be it!!