training @ black belt level

[DWx]

At age 15, however, my body is not fully matured yet.

Yours may not be but another persons may. Why should they not be allowed to grade to blackbelt?

[DWx]

in judo (sticking with that example), there is no junior shodan. IMO, that is the way it should be. MA is not about belt rank anyway, but skill level, so why would you feel the desire to have a black belt? just keep your junior ranking and continue to advance until you are old enough to attaina black belt.

If MA is not about belt rank but skill, does it matter if I hand a 5th dan to a 10 year old?

[nine_weapons]

in judo (sticking with that example), there is no junior shodan. IMO, that is the way it should be. MA is not about belt rank anyway, but skill level, so why would you feel the desire to have a black belt? just keep your junior ranking and continue to advance until you are old enough to attaina black belt.

If MA is not about belt rank but skill, does it matter if I hand a 5th dan to a 10 year old?

because of the connotation that tends to come with a black belt, quite obviously. At that level, you are allowed to teach, and to most non MA are at a level of mastery, which is laughable at best. IMO, ranks are completely unnecessary. Look at muay thai, wrestling and several other styles out there. Belt ranks give people a sense of achivement and can be used to determine seniority from a quick glance. These are nice to haves, but are far from a necessity.

[Zanshin]

Either that or look more into proper use of things like leverage.

That’s sort of my point really. Correct use of technique over physical strength is the most important thing.

A good martial art will always stress good fitness but also economy of movement.

As they say, the best way to learn karate is from an old person.

Judo is also a lot more sport oriantated than many of the other taditional MA's that place self improvement as a higher priority perhaps.

Edited August 13, 2007 by Zanshin

[Adonis]

Black Belt and what it means depends on the invidual, or the persons instructor's standards for promotion to that rank. .

Some instructors believe for a persron to be a black belt, they need to have a high level of skill in the art, strong moral character, and ability to articulate them selves or convey the information to teach others, so they must have a good understanding of the techniques.

Some may say Black belt is just basics and if you want to teach, you got to reach 3rd dan.

Other instructors promote those even if they have very limited skill but they PAY the bills. (Mcdojo)

It all depends, on the instructor and there stanards of promotion in that art.

As for politics, I was refering to ranks after the black belt, depending on your instructor or assoication you can go up to sandan or yongdan, with a bit more technical knowledge then one would have at Shodan. However after that seems alot of rank starts going to those who have schools, or what they do for the orgization they belong to as a whole. Also there is the "good ol boys" club issue in Acadmey's as well in diffrent orgizations.

It is the grading after black belt to which me and I believe Zanshin also, were refering about. However there is politics before black betl also.

Politics can also refer to the gosspers in the dojo/Acadmey/orginzation. Some did something some one else didn't agree with. Then they gums start a flapping.

It also can go into head instructor of a dojo, or orginzation doesn't like when some one trains with another group or some school where he doesn't like the owner for what ever reason. This can also cause problems which is refered to as politics.

Honestly politics can be a very vague statement over all as far as to what goes on in the Martial Arts community. However I would refer to that type of stuff as the "Dark Side" of the Martial Arts.

Thats why Zanshin says he keeps his head down and trains instead of being involved in that other mess.

[bushido_man96]

IMO, ranks are completely unnecessary. Look at muay thai, wrestling and several other styles out there. Belt ranks give people a sense of achivement and can be used to determine seniority from a quick glance. These are nice to haves, but are far from a necessity.

I agree completely.

[Shotokan-kez]

I just got my black belt in may and my training is just the same, however the time coming up to my black belt grading i trained harder than i ever had before because i really needed to build up some stamina. Now, though i am finding my training hard, the combinations are more tricky and i am finding them quite tireing. Also the new kata's i am learning are hard to grasp too. As for training i train just hard, put in just as much effort and still twice a week, just as i did before....i'm just finding this black belt thing a challenge lol

[Zanshin]

IMO, ranks are completely unnecessary. Look at muay thai, wrestling and several other styles out there. Belt ranks give people a sense of achivement and can be used to determine seniority from a quick glance. These are nice to haves, but are far from a necessity.

I agree completely.

I agree that that grading system is not a "necessity" for developing good martial arts, but the fact is that most Japanese gendai arts have seen the introduction of some sort of grading system as beneficial.

It’s perhaps the abuse of this system that has given it a bad rep. I believe that the grading system, when employed correctly, provides a useful key-stage learning measure.

You also have to bear in mind that the grading system was introduced as a “mechanism” for handling the larger volumes of students that started to study the likes of Karate and Judo as they became increasingly popular. Previously the koryu arts, from which the likes of modern day karate and judo etc descended from, were taught on a much more personal level.

Getting back onto the subject of training and grading after black belt, a petty niggle of mine is Dan grades that that get to Shodan or Nidan and take their foot of the gas. Its as if they have a black belt so don’t have to grade any more. Generally speaking these people's karate tends to degenerate after a while, as they are lacking the want to improve.

[bushido_man96]

It’s perhaps the abuse of this system that has given it a bad rep. I believe that the grading system, when employed correctly, provides a useful key-stage learning measure.

The bad wrap comes from those who have one idea for a grading system, and then think that it should transfer to the grading systems of other schools or styles.

You also have to bear in mind that the grading system was introduced as a “mechanism” for handling the larger volumes of students that started to study the likes of Karate and Judo as they became increasingly popular. Previously the koryu arts, from which the likes of modern day karate and judo etc descended from, were taught on a much more personal level.

I think the fighting arts were originally used to train troops to defend a country as a standing army. Therefore, drilling would have been done in mass groups, and it was done with out ranks.

Getting back onto the subject of training and grading after black belt, a petty niggle of mine is Dan grades that that get to Shodan or Nidan and take their foot of the gas. Its as if they have a black belt so don’t have to grade any more. Generally speaking these people's karate tends to degenerate after a while, as they are lacking the want to improve.

I don't think that you have to grade to improve. When you talk about the number of years that exist between many dan grades, I don't think the fact that one is going to grade or not has anything to do with their motivation. I had my first grading in a little over 3 years just two weeks ago, and I hadn't changed my training all that much. My motivation to improve has remained the same. Again, I point to the styles that don't use ranks, like Boxing, Wrestling, and Muay Thai.

[Zanshin]

You also have to bear in mind that the grading system was introduced as a “mechanism” for handling the larger volumes of students that started to study the likes of Karate and Judo as they became increasingly popular. Previously the koryu arts, from which the likes of modern day karate and judo etc descended from, were taught on a much more personal level.

I think the fighting arts were originally used to train troops to defend a country as a standing army. Therefore, drilling would have been done in mass groups, and it was done with out ranks.

Not really, the koryu arts were taught at a clan level, not national level.

Getting back onto the subject of training and grading after black belt, a petty niggle of mine is Dan grades that that get to Shodan or Nidan and take their foot of the gas. Its as if they have a black belt so don’t have to grade any more. Generally speaking these people's karate tends to degenerate after a while, as they are lacking the want to improve.

I don't think that you have to grade to improve. When you talk about the number of years that exist between many dan grades, I don't think the fact that one is going to grade or not has anything to do with their motivation. I had my first grading in a little over 3 years just two weeks ago, and I hadn't changed my training all that much. My motivation to improve has remained the same. Again, I point to the styles that don't use ranks, like Boxing, Wrestling, and Muay Thai.

But does your style use ranks. If it does its probably for a reason.

Sorry if I come over a little facetious but, in my view a steady improvement is what you should be getting out of any good day to day martial arts system/routine. I honestly feel that the "amping up" that is needed to progress on to the next level is important to build your character and skill. Obviously when the time is right for you.