No first attack?

[AngelaG]

What does this mean? It doesn’t take much to realise that this does NOT mean that we stand there while someone swings a punch, get hit in the face and then start to fight. No matter how much I train, how fit and strong I get, if a 6’+ attacker hits me in the face I am not going to be in much of a position to fight back afterwards.

 

So where does this lead us? Obviously if someone takes a swing for me I need to block his attack. Then I need to do some form of retaliation immediately after. The type of retaliation would depend on the situation I am in, it’s not always appropriate to do a neck wrench because one of your mates has got a bit rowdy and started to push you around. Sometimes a simple arm bar while you talk them around is the more fitting form of action.

 

Sometimes it is blatantly obvious that something is about to kick off in violent action, even before a single punch has been fired. The problem is that once a punch has been thrown the situation will usually escalate out of control; it’s like a no going back zone. The first step to out and out violence has been taken. Therefore sometimes it may be best to stop a situation before anyone has a chance to hit out. The best way to do this? If you are the catalyst for the event, remove yourself, get away, you may feel your pride has taken a beating but that’s better than your face taking a beating. If you are a born diplomat start to talk them down. A calm, soothing voice can sometimes do wonders. Sometimes though the situation has already started to escalate out of control, perhaps someone has laid their hands on you. Maybe then it is appropriate to retaliate in some way, either be removing the hand or by keeping it and putting it into a lock. If the would be attacker realises that you know what you are doing then they may just think that it’s not worth their while getting involved.

 

If there is no way back, it is obvious a punch will be thrown is it right for a trained karateka to get there first? We train to be fast and react to situations so should we react so fast that they do not even get a look in? In which case we risk being seen as the asgressor, a trained aggressor, and pretty soon karate would be getting a very bad name!

 

Perhaps another way of putting it is that there is no first INTENT towards attack in karate. We do not instigate fights; wherever possible we try to calm situations down. But sometimes there may be a situation where we need to put in the first technique, to avoid getting hurt.

[italian_guy]

My interpretetion is a little different (not much), I think what you should do is avoiding the fight until the very last instant in order to do that you should not attack first, however once attacked you should immediately counter, this is why all katas begin with a difensive movement (as far as I know). This is my interpretation however...

[AngelaG]

My interpretetion is a little different (not much), I think what you should do is avoiding the fight until the very last instant in order to do that you should not attack first, however once attacked you should immediately counter, this is why all katas begin with a difensive movement (as far as I know). This is my interpretation however...

 

All kata start with a movement that can be used in a defensive manner, however the same move can also be used more than effectively in an attacking manner!

[jarrettmeyer]

Unfortuneately, this can only be answered with vague generalizations.

 

By my sensai's teachings - First rule of self defense: maintain distance. Don't end up nose-to-nose, yelling and screaming. You'll get hit. Keep any and all aggressors out of your sphere of control. Now someone lunges in at you. Feel free to counter, block, dodge, etc. I would see no reason to let that strike land. Also, counter with the control that you can just keep your opponent at bay. If he keeps getting up and coming back for more, then give him more.

 

This gets complicated. So now you've lost that ability to maintain distance. Your back is to a wall. Your opponent has friends. You were recently at a Pacers/Pistons game. Any other possible situation. If this is really the case, I could easily see the claim where your safety has already been compromised.

 

Although I have never been in a real fight, I cannot think of one that could be talked down post-combat.

[GrrrArg]

Arrrggghhh! I was writting an article on this.. Oh well to late to stp now. Ill just pinch some of Angela's words..

 

Katas dont start with a defensive move.. they can all be used to hurt. There are no blocks in any kata. They all have a more useful application. Even a basic punch has more application when you consider the hikite hand.

 

You should also bear in mind that there are entry techniques not shown in the kata. By the same token there are also exit techniques, these arent shown because they are (should be) obvious, ie: take them to the ground, if they are still a threat.. stamp on their head

 

Trying to keep distance in an SD situation.. good idea. Very hard to implement. Most start of close up. Very few ppl run screaming at you like a mad man.

[italian_guy]

Katas dont start with a defensive move.. they can all be used to hurt. There are no blocks in any kata.

 

This I don't agree. All taikioku kata start with a block.

[GrrrArg]

We do taikioku shodan, its starts with a turn to the left and a gedan beri blocking a kick.

 

Or could it be a hammer fist strike to the arteries in the leg?

 

Its open to interpretation and the example I give is slightly semantic.. but there you have it

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Here's my $.02 worth.

 

Every move of every kata...from the opening bow and hand "salute", to the the closing of same...have both an offensive, AND a defensive application. Usually, they have numerous applications of both if you get into them deeply enough.

 

the traditional thought is that kata start and end defensively, which is true...but that defensive move can also be used offensively in a given situation if you know what you're looking at. It can be quite subtle.

[GrrrArg]

Would you agree however that there are no blocks in a kata?

 

Different to no defensive moves..

 

Best form of defence is offence..

 

IMO they are entirely interchangeble. There is a very fine line between offense and defense in kata.

 

That "block" could be a lock, which very quickly becomes offensive etc:

 

Its semantics really I suppose.

 

[ramble/]

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Sematics...yes. There are definitely blocvks in kata and everything else in karate...but those blocks can also be used offensively as strikes also...so what do you call them? lol