MMA_Jim

You guys sit here and debate- Im buying the 60% off DvDs.... The only thing that can top that ad is instead of "mistaken identity" he was ambushed by a gang of ninjas SOLD

No, thats not exactly the case- you're misunderstanding. You can hit pads all you want. When you start hitting pads with a muay thai instructor who corrects you and takes you under his wing- then you're doing muay thai. When you're doing something thats not regularly found in your system, you are no longer training in that system. And I do mean regular. Karate practices (or has as much expertise if you will) grappling about as much as BJJ practices or has as much expertise in striking- I dont care about what's "historically" in the books- every style has every technique available in theory- Im interested in practice. Agreed, but again there are differences between supplementing and replacing ones style. Its also text book muay thai... By Machidas own admission what he does is very different than what other karate is currently practiced as. Again its like Carlson Gracie claiming that Vitor Belfort was a jiu jitsu fighter during the early years of his career- it just wasnt the case. And again even Machida likes to point out how old karate was very much like mixed martial arts with all the moves, but ironic that hes the only one thats shown to be exceptionally proficient in it. I find it hard to believe one family just happened to hold on to the "real" karate. Surely being raised in Brazil, the fighting capital of the world between jiu jitsu, judo, and muay thai had something to do with it... No argument there Hey, I'll give you that- its all well and good to try to expand ones horizons, but given that theres so many karateka that DONT do what Machida does, it begs the question- who really represents the style when they fight?

Who mentioned Vale Tudo at all?

While most of the advice is good on here, the problem is that no one is demonstrating for you- if you've never done a double leg you're not going to do it just because someone tells you what you should do. Heres simple enough advice- try to go two hands to your opponents head (ala a thai clinch) and try your hardest to break his posture and snap him straight to the floor (hence the name, snapdown). Again all you're doing is two hands to his head and keep pulling it down and try to faceplant him to the ground. Your opponent wont actually faceplant (if hes smart) he'll post his hands on the floor for base. When he does, try to run and spin to his back to attack the turtle position. Simplest advice I can give

Lots of people try to make lots of points- but again, show me a karateka who fights MMA and trains SOLELY karate for his standup. I understand Machida has extensive karate background, and many others did as well- this may help influence his fighting style, but that does not neccessarily mean that his fighting style is karate. It looks like muay thai- because every muay thai gym I go to, I see these things being done. I dont see these things done at ANY karate dojo, yet every karateka wants to claim it as such. So please, a little evidence (and perhaps a few videos) would be greatly appreciated

Regardless of whether you train in BJJ or Judo, you'll have a significant advantage in a street altercation. BJJ on the other hand, was devised to be solely a street fighting style. Judo was created with the intentions of being a sport based around good conduct (though this doesnt mean its still not extremely effective!)

You're referring to classic thailand muay thai as opposed to more modern muay thai. Classic thai has since learned from western boxing and incorporated the proper footwork. Footwork is not a strong staple of shotokan or any type of karate due mostly to their deep stances and one strike one kill philosophy. Again this is simple boxing mechanics incorporated as muay thai was exposed to the western world. Someone like Wanderlei Silva, for example, almost never throws leg kicks. A lower stance allows for a stronger punch. This is simple boxing mechanics which has become add on for ANY modern muay thai school since its inception. Again, Lyoto isnt out there practicing katas, hes throwing combinations and hitting thai pads- things non-existent in karate. No, GSP is a mixed martial artist, skilled in boxing, wrestling, and jiu jitsu. Bas Rutten is a Muay Thai fighter turned Pancrase practitioner. Just because they started in karate when they were younger does not make them karate fighters. What karate doesnt teach that is evident in these (and other) MMA fighters: -combinations (karate is one strike one kill, with no hand combinations at its inception) -hooks -kicking with the shin (exception kyokushin) -steping out to kick through an opponent I started with Shotokan, did some Tang Soo Doo, and a little Tae Kwon Do before finally switching to Muay Thai. None of the previously mentioned influence my style of fighting whatsoever. If St Pierre, Machida, and Rutten still practice their katas, reverse punches with hands by their hips, and low deep stances, then I'll gladly say they've combined their karate with muay thai If they work combinations, hit the thai pads, and work in with clinches, knees, elbows, and the like while not doing the above- they have replaced their karate with muay thai

Tallgeese summed it up pretty well- this isnt a very practical attack to escape from holds. To repeat what he said, the moment this guy is grabbed, his weight is now off balance and as such he will be unable to generate any amount of power behind his attack. Put a determined attacker on him, and that foot stomp will not save him from the position. To go further into detail and explain from a grappling perspective- Its a bad idea to attempt to exchange blows from someone from an inferior position. Say you're in the bottom of the mount- you dont want to start punching otherwise you're going to be in for a world of hurt and your punches will have no power. The same applies to the headlock and rear bear hug scenarios shown. He is in an inferior position at the start. If he and his opponent start to trade strikes, he will lose virtually ALL the time because he has no base, balance, and power and his opponent has all three. Nevermind the fact should the attacker turn the headlock into a hip toss, or pick him up from the rear bear hug and slam him to the ground. Grappling problems require grappling solutions plain and simple. He should either look into and train his grappling, or simply avoid teaching such a technique that hes unable to make work himself

I dont care what he practiced as a kid or what his style is labeled in his profile- he does muay thai now. Maybe a little karate back then, maybe his dad taught him karate- but he does muay thai now. Him claiming karate is kinda like when Vitor Belfort claimed Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and came into the UFC with 1-2 punch combos knocking everyone out- its simply not whats listed in his style field.

Coming from thai, I think I get a fair amount of both kicking and punching. Punching is obviously more important though, as a punch will always be faster than a kick. Kicks work exceptionally well when used well- that is in conjunction with punches. One of the last fights I did I was able to counter a strong kicker by simply stepping into his kicks and counting with 3 punch combinations.

This occurs in young children who havent fully developed their bodies yet.... Put it this way- the death touch is so impractical that theres no modern evidence (say within the past 100 years) of anyone pulling it off or proving its able to work.

To really train in mixed martial arts, its best to train in styles from opposite ends of the spectrum. For example, training Kempo, Wing Chun, and Tae Kwon Do, doesnt really help all that much- you end up with conflicting strategies all for the feet. It would be best to do a standup style and compliment it with a grappling style, and even throw in a weapon style for fun if you wish.

Thats not crazy at all- thats right around normal for a decent BJJ/MMA school. My main gym used to charge around $200 a month. A year long contract would bring it down to $180 a month. This is typical of a quality school with quality instruction. Assuming its a genuine MMA gym (read: it has quality muay thai and brazilian jiu jitsu) then $180 is right around normal. Renzo Gracie's school is around $250 a month, but its also in New York. As far as schools that arent genuine MMA schools, those are ones that teach karate, aikido, and ju jitsu (of a japanese heritage) and "mix" the styles and therefore claim to be teaching MMA. These are not good MMA gyms and the quality of their students reflects this. In the end, you get what you pay for. If theres another local run of the mill martial arts schools thats $50 a month, theres a reason for the difference in price. Train at both academies and you'll find out.

Minor advantages, I must say. Sakuraba vs Gracie was a clinic of why NOT to wear a gi in MMA anymore. Works well against unskilled grapplers, but against a good groundfighter, you're just making things much harder on yourself

You dont have to look for particular instructors, but rather you should have an instructor who is willing to spar with you (say in a boxing/kickboxing/jiu jitsu session) from light contact up until hard sparring. A skilled fighter knows that hard sparring is essential in training someone how to fight effectively. A pretender is someone who doesnt spar for whatever excuse (most use the "its too dangerous" line) and thinks they're still able to teach effectively how to fight. Its like taking swimming lessons from someone who's never been in the water.

Some people just watch too many old karate movies. Seriously, respect isnt given by simply bowing. Respect in the sense of a martial arts schools refers to things like: no shoes on the mat (I dont want your dirty shoes walking where my face may land) dont talk when I or another instructor is showing something (unless you think you can do it better). just to name a few

That being said (TopTomCat) no experienced fighter is going to be fighting with straight legs. A good cut kick does well to keep people guessing which level the next attack is coming. A lead side cut kick followed up with a cross hook combination works exceptionally well.

The majority of black belts really dont know anything about self defense and/or fighting. As such, many of this majority create this claim "I wanted to fight this guy, but I'd get in trouble, so I had to restrain myself." You get into trouble for getting into a fight because its assault-NOT because you're "trained." Whether or not its justified is determined if its taken to court (which is usually isnt unless its severe). Again you could be training for years and have a black belt, yet havent the slightest clue about fighting or self defense as the majority of martial arts schools teach it as an art (as compared to boxing which is more of a science).

Agreed with tallgeese- legal implications from fights have nothing to do with any training in martial arts. No such laws exist (i.e. theres nothing about "registering your hands" and such).

If you're sparring to the face, you should be using 16oz gloves- nothing less. If you're training with punches to the face and are using typical karate gear- its not enough protection. Face sparring = 16 oz gloves- my kru would kill you if he saw you using anything less much less karate gear.

Actually, I don't feel that way, and I agree with your point about how the sport was introduced to improve the skills of those practicing the arts. That's historical fact. I do feel though, that over time, many of the "sport" schools have watered down their art so that its not as effective a means of combat as it once was. That's not to say that everyone in the sport arts aren't fully capable of applying their arts in a real world self-defense scenario. I just think that a lot of sport-oriented schools have lost sight of the true purpose behind the sport side of the training as being an effective training tool to prepare one better rather than for the sake of just putting another trophy on their shelves. There are two main benefits to competing that I see: First is the opportunity to put one's skills against new people. Second, is the added incentive of having reason to train harder to prepare for the competition. Outside of that, there's nothing that I can't get from regular training that I would get from a tournament. With appropriate safety precautions, I can and do fight at harder contact levels when sparring, rather than just light point sparring, and when doing grappling, I can and do with fully resisting opponents. There's a place for the "sport" side of martial arts and I think it can be a valuable training tool. Its just that in my experience, many schools that focus on the sport have stopped teaching the application of how to translate it to real life back in the training. Competition is a tool, but it needs to be balanced with the rest of one's training. This is entirely true that some people have become way too sportive in their approach to some of the martial arts that are taught. Perhaps the most important thing when learning how to fight and defend oneseld, however, is learning how to combat a resisting opponent. This skill/attribute is so important, and even someone from a purely sportive nature skill becomes well adept at defending themselves because they're accustomed to using their techniques on resisting opponents. On the flip side though, many people who teach martial arts "for the street" have never been in a fight in their lives. Many CLAIM to have been in hundreds, but the reason why I immediately discredit any street fighting claims is that its the easiest thing to claim and its impossible to refute- example: Im 500-0 in street fights, having ko'ed everyone with a single punch-Prove me wrong. Understand? So, that becomes the reason for setting up fights and tournaments. Documented evidence with unbias results (i.e. a video) In regard to what tournament competition offers- besides putting a skillset to the test the best part about a tournament is learning how to deal with the adrenaline dump, which affects everyone. The most difficult street fight I've been in, which had more than 20 people fighting at once, was fun and casual compared to the easiest competition/cage fight I've ever been in. Once you learn how to make your moves work against someone who's been trained in the same stuff, watches video on you, knows your strategy, and you've dealt with the adrenaline dump, the street is a piece of cake and not even so much as a warmup

Thats a generic statement for pretty much every single martial art in the world. EVERYONE trains to end the fight quickly and I have yet to see a system that doesnt. Well, yes you are correct in the sense that some styles (i.e. Tai Chi) are just not meant for fighting and are an expression of the individual or meditation or however one wants to word it. You falsely assume, however, that a style thats trained for "sportive" purposes no longer teaches one how to fight effectively in a "street" sceneria or no holds barred scenario. Virtually all styles of martial arts were taught from a combative nature, and were turned into sports to help its practicioners enhance their skills- (READ that is, the practitioners became better by competing in the sport than by just practicing techniques deemed too violent for practice). Take for example, wrestling. By some accounts the oldest form of fighting/martial arts, wrestling was quickly made into a sportive contest by the ancient greeks and continues to this day to the Olympics. As it stands though, in pure style vs style, the only thing that beats a good wrestler is a good jiu jitsu fighter, and these wrestlers have been training in a "sportive" context since their inception into the style Im not going to touch TKD, lets just say Im not a big fan of it. Judo, on the other hand, while very sport oriented is one the most effective forms of self defense. You bring up the topic of someone trying to mug you- such a person needs to grab you to mug you, and the moment you grab a judoka, you're in his world. If hes a good judoka, you'll simply wake up after you attempted to grab him. You have to understand that what you see on tv or olympics is different than a street fight encounter- its significantly harder. A judoka who trains for competition is training against another world class judoka in excellent physical condition who spends the majority of his days doing nothing but training judo. After fighting these people, an encounter against some scrub in the street who hasnt had day 1 of judo becomes a laughable encounter. In context though, someone who trains for a street scenario and practices deadly techniques, but never at full resistance, never learns what its like to be a fight. Obviously one cant train full force with deadly techniques, such as eye gouging, biting, and so forth. This fight already took place though with the inception of Judo. Before Judo, everything in Japan was ju jitsu- ju jitsu schools used to claim superiority over others based on which schools had more deadly techniques (i.e. if you have more violent means of fighting, you'd consider yourself the superior school, as would other people). Kano (founder of Judo) took the deadly moves out in favor of what you call the sportive moves. This allowed his students to train at full force. He then challenged the ju jitsu schools that were reknown for their ferocity and deadliness, and his students soundly defeated virtually all ju jitsu schools with their "sportive" techniques.

Thats a generic statement for pretty much every single martial art in the world. EVERYONE trains to end the fight quickly and I have yet to see a system that doesnt.

Those forms of ju jitsu competitions are popular in Europe, so Ive heard. Fun to watch, as people get a chance to attempt to use the other facets of their game, but yes, low level jiu jitsu

In my opinion, anything that a black belt was supposed to represent has been watered down severely over the years- everyone's a black belt that I speak to, and the majority of them know nothing (like how to throw a simple job cross properly, for example).