MMA_Jim

You're overlooking an awful lot. Who cares what other schools are doing? Perhaps people looking for quality martial arts/self defense instruction. The difference between your college comparison analogy is that both the colleges you mention produce people who can compete in the same field in the real world- the same does not hold true for martial arts. One has to consider that people who first start looking for martial arts instruction know nothing about it (hence the reason for them being called beginners). Lets not also forget about the decades of mis-information that hollywood martial arts movies had fed people. So here comes this people with a genuine interest in learning how to fight. The instructor is passive thinking that he enjoys teaching people how to do katas and chamber punches from the hip simply because thats what he likes to do- whos to judge him from what hes teaching? ME How many people in the class really think they know how to defend themselves? How much exposure has this person given his students to a fully resisting opponent? After all make no mistake- martial arts are about fighting. You are practicing punching and kicking (or otherwise attacking) an opponent plain and simple. So lets assume this person is a woman who's taken up martial arts to avoid being assaulted. She does all her katas, chambers the punches in the hip, and can hold a horse stance for a long time. After all, after a few years, shes one of the schools best black belts. Now comes the time late at night that some guy tries to attack her. No problem she thinks- Im a BLACK BELT and this guy doesnt know what hes getting into. But things are different- this guy is hitting her full force, her katas arent helping her, and her strikes have no power. She is quickly overwhelmed. Its not her fault- she wasnt taught properly how to fight. But she invested her trust in an instructor who had no clue what he was teaching, but no one stepped up to the plate to inform his students that trying to fight the way this guy was teaching it is WRONG. I used to do kung fu, karate, TKD, and TSD. I remember one of my friends telling me about this UFC stuff. "Pfft, get a REAL black belt in there and he'll teach these goons a thing or two about fighting." When I first watched, I was screaming for Royce Gracie's head- "knee him in the face when he shoots!" After watching enough fights, I had realized what I was training in simply wasnt on the same field as many of the other styles proven in the cage and the ring. I felt betrayed- taken advantage of. I genuinely thought I was being taught how to fight effectively. But here it was nothing more than a bunch of guys who lied to themselves and to me when it came to learning how to fight. I had absolute faith in my experience, but when I was humbled I was ever so gratefull for it. If this jiu jitsu guy didnt straight up show me what I was doing wasnt effective, I would have never learned how to fight effectively. For that I am eternally gratefull, and Im positive there are others out there who are just like I was back then, but simply dont know because it doesnt cross their mind that anyone can open a school, call themselves a "black belt" and teach whatever they want.

Now you're simply speculating. I've also seen Mayweather fight- I dont think hes as fast as Ali was either, given that most of Ali's punches were thrown with his hand by his hips, he had more distance to cover. There is no doubt that Lee was fast, and the same can be said for the other peope in this discussion. Speed is also not just something that is a genetic gift- its a skill developed the same way power and every other technique is. That being said, the boxers in this discusion had significantly better technique than Lee did. This isnt because Lee wasnt good, but moreso because alot of the things Lee was doing was more experimental in terms of real fighting, whereas the others simply boxed and had the best trainers in the world with no other distractions (i.e. grappling, kicking, fighting as a whole is concerned).

Thats an insult to pro fighters everyone. Lee was fast, but have you seriously ever watched Muhammed Ali fight? THOSE are fast hands.

Of course you can kick your opponent in the head while training. In an actual fight, amatuers cannot kick to the head in some organizations.

Mats are a luxury- most places in the West will probably have them, but thats definately not going to something that keeps you from practicing. Participants will typically have shin guards, 16oz gloves, and headgear when training (you could opt for a cup too- they're usually made of steel). Headgear prevents cuts and other cosmestic damage, 16 oz help do the same, and shin guards allow protection for the fighter until he properly conditions his shins (and will also be worn to again, prevent a cut in the event of a head kick). Level of contact typically depends on the participants. There is a technical spar where you dont want to hit each other too hard (say 30%) but then theres also time to hit each other if you're a fighter- there will be lots of sparring at 100% getting ready for a fight What would stop the injury you described from happening? Well, nothing the way you described it. If one is training on a hard surface, I would cut back on some of the throws so as not to get hurt.

Grappling styles are going to be more difficult than standup styles- this is because you not only have to learn how to move yourself, but also your opponent. Also, the ground game is not something that comes natrual to people. People are used to being on their feet, but not so much to learning how to fight on the ground. As far as a jerk of an assistant instructor, I've come across some of them. If you're a strong athletic guy, perhaps they feel they have to "prove" their style to you. Otherwise he could simply be someone with a tremendous eego who wants you to think of him as some kind of "bad dude" you wouldnt want to mess with.... Another possible option, judo players have a reputation for using alot of strength. In this regard, they're not doing things because they're intentionally being mean, its just an answer to many of their problems. Cant finish that uchimata? Put more strength into it. Having trouble with that guard pass? Put more strength into it. In this regard, he may not be singling you out specifically as someone to choke the hell out of, but that could simply be the way he trains.

Submission wrestling is a pretty generic term for anytype of grappling style that combines the two and is lacking a more clear definition. Same with kickboxing. The two convey the idea well enough

Not the last time I was down there. People interested in MMA in Brazil usually find themselves training BJJ, Judo, or Muay Thai at one camp or another. Some will train luta livre, but thats all no gi and without a ranking system

Actually, even biting and eye gouging could be done. Under no circumstances save a tap out or a corner throwing in the towel was the ref allowed to stop the match. The penalty for biting or eye gouging was a fine- but it wouldnt cost you the fight. Hell, the fight wouldnt even be stopped. (Gerard Gordeau bit Royce Gracie's ear when he clinched him up- part of the reason Royce held the choke after he tapped out. So, a fighter was still able to eye gouge and bite his way to victory while only paying a few thousand dollars which wouldnt amount to much after a $50,000 payday.

Im going to say you dont train very often in BJJ- theres NOTHING spiritual about it. Its only spiritual to those who decide to be. And back to the old "multiple opponents" argument. First off, regardless of what style you train in multiple opponents will be very difficult. You can talk all that stick and move stuff you want, but this begs the very question- Fighting one person is so much harder than fighting two. You take your style thats supposed to be used to defeat multiple attackers and you find your theory falls apart and you lose to one opponent- what now makes you think that you can defeat more than one? Where does that logic come in? Beyond that, why is everyone getting into a ground fight always outnumbered? I've got friends too, you know? When talking about these fights, people like you make it seem the moment you hit the ground you're surrounded by a plethora of dirty syringes, lava, broken beer bottles, and a small army of curb stompers with steel tip boots. How many fights have you been in? I've been in several hundred, plenty of times with multiple opponents. One time in particular, the bouncers at our bar got into a fight with the entire starting lineup for Lasalle University's football team (I believe it was them). They are a D-III team, so that means no drug tests (roided beyond belief). So in a basement with more than 40 people fighting, know how often I went to the ground? Not at all. Imagine that-Im a grappler and I didnt pull guard.... What did I do? Since all of these guys were significantly larger than me, I quickly clinched the first guy in front of me. I caught a couple of glancing blows from on the back of my head from his two surrounding friends. I think it hurt their hands more than it did me (didnt do much). At this point I used my knowledge of grappling to slip behind and take my opponents back (while standing) and choke him unconcious, all the while able to use him as a shield and prevent other people from attacking me. I did this 3 x over, and choked out 3 different people in less than a minute- one guy I choked out twice. None of the other bouncers at this bar were very grappling savvy- almost all are swinging for the fences. Many broke their hands during the fight. The only thing that happened to me was having a sore back from having to hip in to guys who outweighed me by more than 100lbs. So what does a striker do in that situation? For one, football players know how to take a hit, so thats nothing new to them. And another, they're pretty good at crude takedowns (tackles?). And remember you're outweighed by close to 100lbs by each guy. Im not saying a striker cant handle that situation- but I am saying he cant handle it better.

Muay Thai with boxing is a beautiful combination. I too would find a reputable Thai boxing gym to learn it. After a few minor changes, you'll find you'll be able to apply your punches quite well. Some things from boxing that dont translate well: Sugarfooting as you mentioned- If you have more of a closed stance it becomes very difficult if not impossible to check kicks and deliver kicks of your own. Open up and be more square to your opponent. Deep stances- some boxers prefer to have a really deep stance. This again will make it difficult to check kicks or deliver kicks of your own. Thai boxers tend to have a more upright closer stance. This way, you can bring one foot up to check or kick and still maintain balance. In that sense, a deep stance isnt wrong, but perhaps Im better off saying deep WIDE stances. Bobbing and weaving- not utilized very often since it is within the rules to clinch the head and knee there as well.

Both have their merits. It sounds cheesy and cliche' but its one of those things where you take what your opponent allows. Obviously I like setting up the rear kicks after a punch combo. I do turn the hip over very well on my kicks, so my lead leg kick is powerfull. Usually, I use the lead leg to distract during a combo so I can land a few punches to the head. I also use it when someone is constantly running from the fight and makes it difficult to engage. A couple of cut kicks slows them down real well. Obviously I'd prefer to land the rear kick just because you'll natrually be able to dish out more power, but again its just about taking what your oppnent allows.

A truely beautiful showcase of boxing in MMA was Takanori Gomi vs Jens Pulver. That was a beautiful fight

There in lies the problem- what has this guy done that qualifies him as a "self defense" expert? I looked at his list of previous professions- I've done them all (except for warden). They're not hard, believe me. Anyone can claim any type of street scenario expertise or experience- because its impossible to refute. So I'll go ahead with this statement: "I have been in over 1,000 street fights, been on the recieving end of numerous gang assassination attempts, and have looked down the barrel of a loaded gun on more than a dozen scenarios. All of these experiences led me to devise the utmost system of self defense- one not based on belts, pride, tapping people out- but one for complete annihilation of my attackers. This style is not for those who wish to fight for fun, but for those who have to fight for their lives." Now, the only difference is- you know Im full of it- but how many other guys are full of it, but still sell so many videos and have people genuinely interested in their "fighting styles." ANYONE can make a video and show a bunch of deadly eye gouges, groin strikes, and biting techniques, claim to be an expert, and look "bad" in their video (after all, they made the thing). That still doesnt mean its a good choice for learning how to fight.

Well, in my opinion most "pressure point experts" are severely lacking in anything I would call effective self defense techniques. Dillman carrying that label doesnt lend him any credibility in my book. Someone else mentioned an overly vague description of pressure points- hitting the chin, hitting the liver, etc. Thats about as far as one can go with pressure points. Why arent pressure points valid self defense techniques? I'll tell you: 1: Pressure points do not work on all people. Some people it hurts very much, others will stand and look at you like you've got a head growing out of your shoulder. This brings us to the next point 2: Pressure points rely on pain compliance. Anything that relies on pain isnt very reliable in my book, because pain can be ignored. Alcohol, drugs, adrenaline- all of these will skew the results of your pressure point techniques. 3: They look very effective when demo'ed- mostly because they're being done on people that believe them to work, and such people are in a relaxed state. Its easy to hit particular nerve clusters when your muscles are relaxed. When the blood starts pumping and you're in fight mode, your muscles contract and protect the vast majority of these points. There you have it-I wouldnt buy into it. Fighting is a science like any other physical activity- hockey, football, baseball, baseketball, etc. There are ways to be good fighters and they've been well established. Often the answer is right in front of your face.

Well, beyond the over emphasis on the effectiveness of said techniques, the other problem occurs that people think they can just execute the technique. "Kick him in the groin and you'll end the fight." Let me draw an analogy between two boxers: "Punch him in the jaw and you'll knock him out" Despite the intent to, boxers can throw over 1000 strikes combined in a 12 round fight and still not have the desired effects. Yet some people think all they need to do is throw a kick or a finger poke with the intention of hitting whatever soft target and thats the fight. Again, another analogy- every woman knows that hitting a guy in the groin hurts- every one knows that they've got nails and that they're supposed to scratch their attackers eyes out. Despite this thousands upon thousands of rapes still occur every year. Biting, eye gouging, and groin kicking are things that everyone know how to do, but it would seem not to work as well in real life as some people sell it.

You're giving your input on this- so the last time you stepped in the cage was _____ The stress of a cage fight is significantly more than the stress of a street fight. Street fights are laughable- I get into those for fun. I've been in just about every type you could think of- multiple opponents, weapons, larger opponents, etc. Again, I would joke and usually have a good time during those fights, because these people have no idea what they're doing, and are about as much a threat to me as a little kid is to a grown man. Yeah I react- probably along the lines of hitting you back. Fighters are used to dealing with pain- its like asking if football players are used to getting hit.... Dont assume that your response is the same as everyone else. Street fights are a joke for me, because I train and fight with REAL fighters whos job is to do nothing but train to fight. I'll say it again- street fights are a joke for a well trained fighter. You can try that avenue of approach for new people entering your gym- it doesnt work on me. Yes, mostly because most of us want to have a career and dont want to be blinded for life. I dont need to see to be able to do jiu jitsu to you. Once I grab ahold of you, Im moving by what I feel, not what I see. So for that particular moment my eyes arent to most important thing when it comes to winning the fight. You could theoretically gouge them out and I could still choke you out. But, at the end of the day I still want to be able to see after all is said and done Here is a true NHB match between a MMA fighter and a kung fu practitioner. A kick (which could have very well be aimed at the groin) is eaten so the fighter can take the fight to the ground. You can hear his friend saying "watch your eyes" as the kung fu guy tries for them- doesnt take much more than moving his head to avoid it. He follows this up with a snap of the arm. To be as mature as I can be-I really think you negated your entire argument with this statement. Did I really just read you state that you cant do a hip toss in a fight? I've done SEVERAL. Not only that, but I'll bet I can tell you Im going to do it, have you try to defend, and still pull it off. Why? Simply because I have in the past. According to your statement though, any and every judoka and wrestler cannot defend themselves in a street fight. Im not talking about researching things online- Im talking about doing them. Have you ever stepped into the cage? Have you ever been in a street fight? How many? Have you ever fought against anyone that legitamately knew what they were doing? I dont believe that my MMA experience will help me in a fight- I know it will. Im kinda like a scientist- I dont "believe" in things. I try to figure them out and KNOW them. I teach this stuff to professional fighters, to police, to some military people, and to the regular joe for self defense purposes. I know what I do works because I've literally done it hundreds, if not thousands of times. I've been in street fights, with "deadly" people, been outnumbered, been in the ring, been in the cage. I'd say that gives me an awful lot of weight in my argument- how about you?

There is such a significant different when it comes to quality training. Just because some guy saw a triangle choke on youtube and thinks he can teach it to a couple of guys doesnt mean this guy is learning MMA on par with people actually proficient in their arts. In other words, MMA taught by sloppy instructors is still sloppy fighting. Been there done that- know why they take a couple of minutes to restart the action? Because they're allowed to. I've been hit in the groin, poked in the eye, etc etc, and its never stopped me in my tracks. I dont suddenly become paralyzed with pain just because I got hit. Yeah it hurts, but guess what- as a fighter Im kinda USED to pain. Thai fighters break their feet and hands during fights- they keep going. Boxers are getting punched as hard as other humans can muster, and jiu jitsu and judo guys are getting slammed full speed into the ground during competitions. A little groin shot and a little pain isnt something new.

You're getting mixed responses from people- some say it hurts, others say not so much. That unreliable in my book. Its a small joint, and while it can hurt like a SOB, adrenaline can also mask the pain. Think about how many people break their hands in a fight and dont find out till the pain hits them AFTERWARDS. Could you break the fingers? You could try. I would suggest getting out of the headlock first, getting a superior position, and then you can do whatever you want. Besides, what if he puts you in that single arm headlock and simply makes a fist- now you cant grab or break anything. And always remember that while you're trying, his other hand will probably be beating you in the head.

Nothing wrong with going into a beginner division- most judoka doing their first BJJ tournaments do white belt divisions- which is what you could expect mostly from the beginner division. You also dont want to jump into the intermediate division if you're not familiar with leglocks should the rules allow them. What to expect? Well, going belly down to avoid a pin is a very bad move in a jiu jitsu tournament- fight to keep your back from being taken- they can win by pin. Also keep in mind that choking against the face is very legal in BJJ. Simply tucking your chin to defend the choke wont be a very good strategy, as it is well within the rules to grind and viviously crossface your opponent.

I see kicks, punches, and throws- all taught in muay thai. Where does he ask about weapons in his post? For what he asked, yes Muay Thai is his best option. Really

Why ISNT krav moving in the right direction? Mostly because it DOESNT have competitions between practitioners. Competitions tend to be the proving ground for fighters, and allow the style to adapt, progress, and become even better. Its no surprise that in the early UFC's the most successfull styles were those that were "sport" styles and they easily defeated those made for "real" fighting. There were no rules in the early events- those that did the sport fighting had more real world experience applying their tactics. Bas Rutten is not a Krav practitioner- hes a Dutch Muay Thai figher who learned some ground skills and competed actively in MMA. Such a skilled fighter can learn any RBSD style and apply it well- not because that RBSD style is good, but because his background pretty much allows him to execute whatever he wants to. In short, its Bas's Muay Thai that makes him a good fighter, not the Krav. And finally, the good ol' groin pounding, eye gouging death touch argument. Know why I dont do those things in a fight? Because they dont work as well as so many people advertise. I've had people try to break my fingers, gouge my eyes, bite me, hit me in the groin, and every other "deadly" technique thats supposed to be kryptonite for every "sport" fighter and grappler. None of them worked in the slightest bit. They were more of a nusiance than anything else-laughable results at best. And finally- you seriously think a grappler gets into a street fight and tries to get his opponent to "submit?" I could care less if the guy Im choking submits or not- hes going unconcious. Thats if he survives the hip toss that lands him on the concrete. Why wouldnt you try that? Perhaps it has something to do that you dont train in a grappling art.....

Brawlers have rarely done well against those with a "traditional" boxing style. Margarido vs Pac Tyson vs Holyfield/ Lewis Foreman vs Ali Such a boxer has ko power- they're just smart enough to work their opponent down rather than brawling

Really guys? Seriously kid- you're from Scandanavia and you want to learn how to throw hands. Muay Thai hands down. European countries have a particularly strong following in muay thai, so you should have no problem finding a quality school

I dont have to train in something to be able to "bash" it- I can clearly see when someone does or does not know what they're doing. Ive yet to see ANY krav instructor that is higher than a blue belt level as shown through their demostration, or any better than a hobbyist boxer. It seems so often as if they make up for these shortcomings by being "deadly" and eye gouging and groin kicking and everything else they can think of. On a second note, military and police are not the best people to confer with with regards to which martial art is better to practice. They themselves dont train very often in hand to hand fighting and for good reason- wars are fought with rifles and mechanized forces and not hand to hand combat. Also, these soldiers are very athletic and strong, and its easy to simply tell them basic techniques and have them succeed- not because the choice of technique is good but rather because their athleticism makes up for poor technique. I've trained with and taught people in the armed forces- SEALS, close combatives instructors, etc. These are first hand accounts.