MMA_Jim

No sir, not at all! There are two things that discribe fake in pro-wrestling, other than the pre-arranged outcome. Everything that they do is called a "Work". The other thing is called "Stiff", and this is when receipts are given/taken. A working punch is a very light tap. A stiff punch is not a light tap; it's more solid. Yet, a stiff can also be as hard as one desires because it's deliberate for one reason or another. The written rule is to hit hard when a wrestle is right next to the crowd. Whether a wrestler is right next to the crowd and/or in the ring: Convince the first 3 rows and the entire house believes. Because most wrestlers are big, that's why they "work" each other and the crowd. For the most part, an entire match is using "working" materials. They protect one another because they've got, especially in the WWE, to wrestle over 300 times a year. One can't wrestle that long, year after year, by being super-stiff. Get a rep that you're always stiff, then you'll not get booked anywhere...ever. Being stiff is fine, when it's required, but, being stiff for no reason(s) will get a wrestler black-balled from the business. Ok so its fake and these guys arent absolute beasts.... Against a professional fighter, of course I dont think they're doing anything in particular, but a traditional martial artist who does it as a hobby- he'll get manhandled. To fight a guy that big you're going to have to be in shape and good with your grappling- period.

Its difficult enough to learn how to fight against one person, let alone 2 or more. Most of the time, you'll still be using the same techniques. Train to fight one, primarily

Theres a difference between showing a move and teaching a move....

Pro wrestling is fake!? Seriously though, sensei seems to be getting a little defensive here. Pro wrestling is fake in the sense that the outcome of the match is pre-arranged- everything they do to one another is very real. They are VERY strong, VERY big and VERY good athletes. They take hits from other guys their size all day long and get up and ask for more. If you're not well over 200 some odd pounds (muscle at that) you're simply not going to drop them with a punch or anything else of that matter. They will grab you and bounce you around the room with one arm. Pro wrestling has an ancestor in catch wrestling, which is a very real grappling style with very real moves.

I agree with you tallgeese, but blue belts really shouldnt be teaching a whole lot. Alright, basic stuff on beginner guys is granted, but a blue belt doesnt have the technical knowledge and knowhow to really understand the moves that hes teaching. i.e. so blue belt shows the move, any questions, ask his instructor.

Not very effectively.

I'll throw some rough numbers at you... It takes 25 lbs of pressure to break the larynx, while only 5 lbs to collapse a carotid artery. So, even a "choke" that is applied in a sloppy manner will still render someone unconcious before killing them, unless you're doing a "night of the living dead" zombie badguy choke with two hands across the throat. Chokes can and do hurt, but again you'll most likely choke the person unconcious before collapsing their windpipe.

Well, yeah. Using ones mind and keeping it open is one the best things one can do. But, your mind, no matter how powerfull, will not compensate for your lack of skill and technique if you have a completely faulty understanding for what it is you're trying to accomplish. In other words, no matter how much you may want to beat someone else, your mind will not empower you if you lack the proper instruction. Arguments for the advancement of creationism will never end either, that doesnt mean that theres any merit whatsoever in the idea.

Give your money to me if you dont want it...

I dont find such discussions to be meaningless- the fact is some styles are simply better at some things that other styles. Everyone says its "the fighter not that style." So if thats true than a professional boxer should be just as adept at swordfighting as a kendo artist.... Anyways, Bas Rutten did and still does Muay Thai of his own accord. Machida can call what he does Karate, and we argued this for a long time on this forum before. Lets just settle and say that even he said that his style of karate is different than ever other style of karate out there, so apparently the only thing they share in common is the namesake. Of course Karate can be used, many karate fighters do indeed fight mixed martial arts. Mixed martial arts is simply a ruleset- not a set of techniques or a style of fighting. Hell, Bob Sapp labeled his fighting styles as "NFL." Your mind IS your biggest asset, but no one KNOWS how to fight, but rather they must be taught. How well they're taught is heavily influenced by their instructor. The quality of their instructor is often influenced by that instructors primary style. Unless you're talking about kendo, phillipino knife fighting, or quick draw, any and all styles of fighting are allowed in MMA. There are no style restrictions. Virtually all styles of martial arts strive to do one thing- beat your opponent. Thats really all that matters. Killing your opponent is the option you have after you've beaten him. A boxer that knocks you out has the option of killing you when you lie on the ground unconcious unable to defend yourself. A jiu jitsu fighter can simply not let go of the choke that made you lose conciousness. You get the idea On any surface that can hurt? Do you have any idea how painfull it is to be on the receiving end of some of these techniques? Besides, strikes to the throat are legal in Japan- we've yet to see a maimed fighter as a result. Mostly because all one has to do is tuck their chin, something that people are taught to do in their first boxing class. Dangerous in the sense you used the word simply refers to how much control one has over the technique. Yes, a throat strike is "dangerous" and a choke not so much. Perhaps what you meant to say was "lethality" in which case a continued choke causes death 100% of the time. A throat strike can have no effect, can kill, can maim, or can simply be a nuisance. In this regard, a choke is significantly more lethal. Hey, everyones entitled to their opinion and you're absolutely right- there may be some wild style out there we havent seen that will wreck havoc on a regular cage fighter... As it stands, however, the facts remain: The styles regularly showcased in mixed martial arts have proven themselves to be the most effective ways of fighting in their respective specialities (striking and grappling)period.

I respect that you have been in several fights on the street and you are more experienced in this? . Yes, I've been in many street fights, if I had to put a number on it, you could say a few hundred (maybe 200+) Again as I say maybe times, take that statement with a grain of salt, because for all you know I could be some kid behind a computer just making stuff up. But again the reason I responded to you post was because you made statements rather than giving your opinion- leading the reader to believe that you knew exactly what you were talking about (i.e. you've extensive experience in street fighting) Doesnt that hold true for virtually all martial arts? Bear in mind that in a self defense situation, the person attempting to protect his or herself is not obligated to engage the other person- you're picture some guy fresh out of a cage fight who's trying to figure out how to take down an assailant who's circling him with a knife... First off, if I see this guy has a knife in his hand, Im probably not going to try to throw a double leg on him- Im not going to try to hit him either (if Im close enough to punch him, hes close enough to stab me). Second, when someone pulls a knife they generally are not going to brandish it and let you know they have one (if they plan on using it anyways). Third, if someone is going to attack you with a knife and you plan on taking it off of them, you're going to have to engage in a grapple of some kind (grabbing= grappling) This is a good video to watch in regard to knife defense and I agree wholeheartedly with the point the video attempts to make- that knife defense is atrocious. I dont want to post the direct link, because its shows a few graphic images, but type in "knife defense is a myth" in youtube and watch the video that comes up. Seriously I teach self defense techniques, but do I teach knife defense? Not really- my knife defense entails falling to your back and kicking like hell at your opponents knees until you get him to back up just enough to stand up and run away (again, assuming you're unable to run away in the first place). I show what I know works- I know it works because i've used it numerous times on fully resisting opponents, many times knowing ahead of time what I was going to do and they were still unable to stop it. When I successfully defend myself against a knife attack, I'll be glad to share the technique. Until then, even the "experts" at knife defense are really only experts in theory and not in practice. Again, some guy with a military background who "claims" he defended himself against 100 armed assailants who ambushed him in vietnam or the persian gulf doesnt cut it for me, because anyone can make that claim and its irrefutable. And theres nothing wrong with that- but should you want to avoid the ground game its the grappling training that gives you that choice and not your striking training

EVERYTHING has a defense and a counter... Seriously though, that "shredder" is funny stuff. - It looks like a bad zombie apocalype comic book or something. If someone claims to teach you something that has no defense, I'd stop giving your money away so carelessly

Forms dont really help you very much in real fighting, that is unless its a free form type of environment (like shadowboxing). You're in San Diego, thats a hotbed for jiu jitsu and MMA if I ever knew of one. I'd take advantage of that situation if I were you...

These are statements I hear most often from people who have never been in a fight. Theres a saying when it comes to grappling and fighting in real life- "ground happens." It means that despite your best efforts and intentions, you'll often find yourself on the ground during the course of a fight. A fight isnt about what you "want" to do its about what you can do.

I wouldnt say its "hot" but more that its just popular among soccer moms who want to switch up their cardio kickboxing routine.

Thats exactly what Im saying though- most people try to make their demos look good, but these guys are such novices that their best techniques that made the highlight reel are full of mistakes. In other words, their best effort shows them to be beginners at best

Well, you had to post it so I have to respond to it. For those who are unaware, Im a strong advocate against krav, but I'll remain civil... Any demo video can make any style look unbeatable. Thats to be expected, and yes every style makes demo tapes, so I cant say that "so and so style is better" on this basis because there are demo's out there (similar to this) of BJJ, Muay Thai, boxing, etc etc. The problem I have with it is this- when you shoot a demo, you pretty much have your pick as to what you want to show- that is to say you usually put the best techniques executed beautifully and near flawlessly into your demo to make it look exceptional. That being said... The demo really showcases a bunch of novices based on their technique- I mean technical skills and not choice of technique. Almost every strike thrown was poor- No movement of their heads/hips on their knee strikes Punching with their arms (rather than their body) No hip movement for hip throws Incorrect technique for a hip throw- late in the video you see someone attempt a seo nagi ( a shoulder throw) that he does very improperly that would allow someone to quickly reverse the tables with a rear naked choke. No level change for the hip toss- nothing. Some of the time, they're picking really good techniques- they just simply dont know how to do them properly and THATS my biggest problem with Krav

Sorry to be the one to inform you, but you've got pretty much no chance of fighting in UFC.... Hehe, thats because the lowest weight class in UFC is 155 Ok, so seriously now, you're 145, so you'll probably want to fight around 135, unless you're exceptionally lean (and its impossible to tell what kind of growth spurts you might go through). Now if you're plan is simply to be an MMA fighter- thats not difficult at all. People fight amateur matches having only a few months worth of experience and to be a professional fighter only means you get paid to fight, which almost anyone can do. So what you really want to know is can you do this and be good at it? In short- its up to you-mostly. Depends on the quality of instruction you've got around the area. Quite frankly, I dont think the US has very good karate, and the hotbeds for BJJ/MMA training are either on the west coast or in the northeast. Again, this doesnt mean you cant find a decent place around you. Be patient (like train 5x a week for 10 years patient) and keep working your skills, and you'll certainly have an opportunity to be a solid fighter. Take it from me though, if you REALLY want to be a professional fighter (I use the term pro in this sense to mean that you make a living off of fighting) be prepared to sacrifice alot (almost everything you have) in order to meet this goal. No real secret- what you put in is what you get out. Train hard, make sacrifices, and you'll find you have a little more luck on your side. Oh and someone else mentioned training a little in muay thai and/or boxing. I would suggest this- if you havent done full contact sparring (to the face) you'll find that its significantly different than point sparring/continuous sparring.

Fight Fight! That's it? Fight! Ok...fair enough...but...fight how? How will fighting satisfy ALL/everyone? Unfortunately, one can never satisfy everyone. Again using the Gracie Challenge (anyone who wanted to try to beat jiu jitsu) as an example. Some people are smart- they fight, get beat soundly and you say "now start training and find out why it is you lost." These peope would then sign up after being soundly beaten so easily. Others just dont want to admit it, and they were plentifull as well. They get beat two, three, sometimes four times. They're allowed to use anything they want- and were told ahead of time - "the jiu jitsu practitioner cannot punch or kick- hes can only take you down. Then hes going to slap you around a little bit." And they did exactly that. They spent so much time training in whatever style they currently did and refused to open their eyes and would firmly believe that "if I just train a little harder in I can win" and they never learned to this day why they got beat.

Well, thats problem one- it doesnt seem as if you used this technique very often at all to warrent its effectiveness. EVERY technique has a chance of working, what we want to know is does it work well, and does it work against a skilled fighter. Again you're putting alot of stock in a technique that you've never really used successfully very often. Here is a true NHB fight between a kung fu practitioner and a MMA fighter. Its a rather old video, but the same argument was presented- deadly eye gouges and bites. When doing the "Gracie challenge" which I use as a generic term for people who want to challenge jiu jitsu with their martial art, there are no rules. If you felt you could grab a groin or gouge an eye, go for it. No one ever made it work.... We'd only ask that people try not to bite, and simply stated if they did we'd bite back and make them regret it. Eye gouges were used often during early MMA events as well, Yuki Nakai vs Gerard Gordeau probably being the most famous- a 100 lb heavier Gordeau eye gouged Nakai so badly that he is now permanently blind in one eye. He (Gordeau) also sank his teeth into Nakai's shoulder and neck. These were blatent, intentionaly, and obvious with no ref intervention. In the end, Nakai's grappling prowess proved to be the deciding factor when he heel hooked Gordeau. Now, seriously- yes a finger jab may work, but look at your target. The technique only works if it hits such a small part of your opponents head. If you miss, you also stand a good chance of breaking your finger, and thereby preventing you from using that technique and perhaps many others (such as a simple punch) from that point onward. A simple punch is much easier, less likely to break, and has a much broader range of targets. Can hit the jaw, nose, temples, cheeks, eyes, what have you. It just doesnt sound as glorious and deadly because people see it all the time when they watch boxing.

Fight

Oh no, I never mentioned vale tudo- Again, Gracie jiu jitsu was created specifically for street fighting. The duels happened on their own as people began setting them up themselves to determine who was the better fighter. You fail to understand that the Gracies would regularly go out and get involved in street fights where there were no rules and no referees. They would do things like fight alledged drug dealers and lower life people who would try to pollute their neighborhoods. Some of the time they had to run away to get more reinforcements because they were severely outnumbered. Its a little ironic, but this is exactly what happened with japanese ju jitsu prior to the innovation of Judo-- ju jitsu fighters used to regularly "duel" as you put it, in the street. Against another fighter where someone was trying to prove their fighting prowess- yes they were duels, sometimes organized, sometimes not so much, but these people got their reputations through the numerous street fights and altercations they were in. Seriously, it doesnt matter how you do it, but if you were able to seriously beat up a known fighter (say you jumped and trashed a Gracie) you'd be the hot item around the street. You could have used a tire iron, baseball bat, or whathave you it doesnt matter- you beat them up. You'd have a reputation over night. Such things havent happened, and its not because people were unwilling to try such things... Thats what these duels really are and started out being- a showdown between the two baddest dudes around (i.e. they're the baddest dudes because they win all the streetfights). People want to see whos better so they arrange a fight between the two, so you get a duel- doesnt mean the two involved havent been around the block awhile- you know? Sometimes people were just confronted and beat up. No discussion of rules, refs, or anything else. Just plain and simple- "I heard you're talking some smack!" and wham-beat upside the head, taken down and choked out. If thats not a street fight than what is?

Bingo. This is the heart and soul of any discussion you're going to have with an MMA fighter (and myself). We can talk theory all day forever- it really never stops. In theory, every single technique works well. For example, everyone can come up with these amazing statistics about how little pressure it takes to rupture the eyes, explode eardrums, collapse this structure, destroy that one, etc etc.... then show the technique and say "see, this will work well!" I just saw one episode of self defense thingy's on demand (national geographic or something) where they showed "self defense" experts who used eye gouges to escape a rear naked choke, and a throat grab that they claimed would help a woman save herself from an attacker who is mounted on her..... These people are the problem. They've NEVER tried what they're doing against ANYONE who has ANY idea what they're doing- they just invent stuff up, claim to be experts, and go on their way. Theres absolutely NOTHING wrong with suggesting something or asking if a particular technique could work- i encourage my students to ask as much as possible. But when you do exactly what you do when you say "oh, well, mma fighters dont learn the finger jab and this is so usefull" How do you know? Whens the last time you used a finger jab on someone? How many times have you done it? Did this person have any idea what they're doing? Is it video tapped? When a good instructor (we'll use generic MMA) shows a muay thai/bjj technique, its because hes done it a couple thousand times against other pros who are world class athletes, are familiar with the move, and were still unable to stop it- thats impressive stuff, not showing me what you can do to some scrub "street fighter" in a bar. So, going back to the previous paragraph, I think you and many other TMA's set themselves up by criticizing things they have no business doing because the majority of the time they have no experience or expertise in the subject matter! It reminds me of all the guys gathered at the club to watch friday night fights. You'd think everyone's a professional cornerman listening to these people- "Oh he needs to let his jab go more, and see how his opponent is doing that? Hes got to start doing this to counter it." These people are trying to give their two cents and they dont even know how to walk (literally) while in the ring. So, if you're going to make a claim or criticize something in the sport, be prepared to back it up (i.e. fight and win using the said technique). MMA schools have been through more than their fair share of challenge matches- people who thought they had something a little better. I dont mean to pick on it particularly, but I laugh when people come into my muay thai school and insist on telling my kru "well, I have a black belt in karate" and he tells them sternly "thats not going to help you here." Oh, and on a side note- all the TMA's that regularly like to criticize MMA fail to understand one thing- the styles used in MMA were not made for MMA- they were made for combat and street fighting and ADOPTED to MMA. These styles are just as restricted as the next by the rules. The fact that despite the rules they still prove successfull showcases their versatility and therefore their effectiveness. They can win in a variety of different ways, inside or outside the rules, inside or outside the ring. When you make claims like "oh, well I cant use that in the ring so Im restricted and cant use the full extent of my style" you fail to realize that everyone else has to deal with the same restrictions, yet they still step up and manage to win. That statement is repeated so many times by people who fail to realize they're criticizing their own styles without knowing it- claiming that they're style is so dependant on one technique, that the removal of that technique renders the style ineffective... thats not impressive at all.

Seriously, you've got to learn some proper grappling. This is what I mean when I say that something cant be learned off the internet. If his "squat" was a proper sprawl, accept that you're not going to learn any tricks online to beat him, as he obviously has a bit more grappling experience than you do. If he simply squatted down, you didnt execute your double leg properly. Theres so many variables without video and without face to face instruction. Im willing to be you threw a horrible double leg attempt- one that looked more a tackle than a proper shot- nothing against you, but you had no idea what it was a few days ago- it takes more than a few days to develop a proper shot. Again, strive to learn proper grappling from a proper instructor. And just because someone claims to know it doesnt mean they do.

When I mentioned "textbook" I was referring to the push kick (or front kick, whatever you wish to call it) followed up by a punch. An evasive gameplan actually would not be very traditional muay thai, but there are various styles of fighters within styles of fighting themselves. There are plenty of muay thai videos to be found online on youtube. Show me a karate video where someone is throwing good combinations such as jabs, crosses, hooks, uppercuts, and the like. Take for example the WCL which was Chuck Norris's brainchild. Plenty of karate fighters on there, and it looked significantly different than what Machida does. You can call what he does whatever you want, but if you're calling it karate (as even he prefers to) understand that its completely different than every other style of karate out there (as even he and his father say it is). Regardless, the only thing his karate seems to share with other styles is the name.