nine_weapons

if you look at the army combatives manual from as far back as WWII, the curriculum was judo based - grappling. How old is your instructor?

In MMA, it's almost impossible to see a match which has no grappling whatsoever. because of this, grappling skills are essential, possibly moreso than striking. kicks are even less of an importance as they can lead to easy takedowns if the timing is off or the kick is weak. grappling boxing kicking I would put them in that order if training for mma, and possibly on the street, depending on what you train for. As a bouncer or LEO, we are not permitted to strike unless the situation is extreme, which places an emphasis on grappling for us.

not all kung fu styles are popular. MMA doesn't get bashed like CMA does, and MMA is at the height of it's popularity...

this is why kung fu gets a bad rap: this is a challenge that happened between third generation MASTER wu gongyi and white crane MASTER and founder of the international white crane organization. chan hak fu in 1954. I know most of you have seen this by now, in addition to the emin bozeteppe / william cheung debacle.

I have shuffled, but not due to lack of desire to train in the style. I like martial arts in general and will put my all into a style be it muay thai or tkd. my shuffling has been either due to me moving, my teacher moving or my school closing down. Things I have trained over the past 23 years: shotokan tang soo do traditional japanese karate (that is what he called it. He was from kumamoto. He knew all of the shotokan kata and several okinawan ones, but trained much different than any commercial place I have ever seen) jun fan / jkd longfist muay thai judo bjj kali shuai chiao

huh? bruce lee made jun fan and jkd - he didn't create gung fu... gung fu and kung fu are one and the same, just as qi and chi are the same and tai chi and taiji are the same - it's dialectual.

Great example. Following on from that, there has been research which shows in a large number of stabbings, the person being attacked doesnt even realise they are being stabbed, or that the attacker has a knife until they have already been cut several times. With this in mind, taking the initiative and stopping an attack before it happens, either verbally or physically, is the safest and strategically smartest option to maximize your chance of survival. very true. I know someone who lost an eye because it was cut in a fight with a boxcutter. she also has several scars. she said that she was fighting someone, saw them swinging and thought they were just punching. she never saw the blade and did realize she was being cut. I know other people who have said the same. until they saw the blood or until after the confrontation was over, they didn't even know a blade was involved.

I am fortunate enough to have a black belt at my school now. before, we had to get promoted at seminars as well. bjj is skill based. this is different from many knowledge based styles. For example, in karate, you can test when you know all of the required techniques for a particular level and demonstrate reasonable skill with them - kata, self defenses, etc. bjj isn't like that. In bjj, you are usually are not considered for promotion until you can consistently keep up with or beat people one rank higher than you. This ensures continually progressing skill level.

explain please...hopefully this doesn't lead to an "anti grappling" discussion.

I think "traditional" tkd may be a misnomer. TKD didn't come about until like 1960 due to political disputes about it's forerunner tang soo do. tang soo do is pretty much a korean offshoot of shotokan. they have some of the same kata, but they have different ones as well. However, the techniques are pretty much the exact same, at least from what I've seen and experienced (my first style was TSD.) koreans thought that TSD was "too japanese", thus another, "more korean" art was created - tkd.

WC is riddled with political battles...

I'm nitpicking, but I wasn't training muay thai then. this was back in the mid 90s when i was still training karate. very true. That is pretty much what I told him. very true. people think about MA and think about honor and monks. They don't think about tongs, triads, duels to the death, etc.

I may be wrong, but I think this is along the lines of what BM was talking about - this is more of a victim style mindset. you won't attack unless you are attacked first. I on the other hand will attack FIRST If I feel an attack is inevidable. This is the pre-emptive strike which he referred to. In many schools, they teach only to defend, and not to attack unless you are attacked first. I won't say this is a bad thing per se, but it can place you in the situation of not having time to use your skills to defend yourself, because that one strike may have been all it took for him to KO you. I don't worry about getting in the first punch, but if someone attacks me, I'm going to defend myself well...very well. and if they end up in the hospital or something, I'd rather not end up in jail, thank you very much using myself as an example: I weigh 230 lbs. I bench press 330 I squat 475 I deadlift 475 I have been into MA off and on since I was 6, have competed in the ring and bounced in clubs. If we are in an altercation and I hit you first, you may not get a chance to defend yourself. that is why pre-emptive strikes are great. you are going off of the assumption that you will be able to retaliate. I have a pair of CLEAR knucks made of bullet proof glass. since they are clear, you may not notice I am wearing them. Even if I am smaller than you, if I hit you with them you will likely go down. if you strike me first, however, the advantage is yours.

the problem with many of those self defenses is they are WAY to long and drawn out. In muay thai, you won't see us doing anything that drawn out. Why not? because realistically, that won't happen. Chances are that you will not hit a person that many times unanswered. The result is that when you are interrupted, it throws you off, which is very bad. I had a friend who trained kempo and love some combination or technique called seven swords. I told him repeatedly that he would never be able to hit me seven times and all seven go unanswered. Whenever we sparred, he would try it at least once. He was never able to land more than three of the seven strikes. Since he was already in the mode of throwing all seven techniques, when I interrupted him, it completely screwed with him mentally, because he was set on using seven strikes and I just stopped him too early. It left me with huge openings to counter. I agree with this. No, not all spirituality is religion, and no, not everybody goes to church. however, what you are talking about is spirituality. That is just common sense based upon a person raised in a civilized society - social norms.

once again, you might have seen that somewhere, maybe with one school, however, wing chun works best against boxers or related styles, but you I have explained this a lot by now... search for wing chun info. I have talked to several WC guys who say the opposite. They also have told me that they try to adapt their WC strikes to more of a boxing style, as it seems more practical to them that way. One of these guys has over 20 years experience in WC.

On a side note, since it is being mentioned here, I think ba ji is an awesome style.

1. what do pre-arranged, choreographed vids prove? those aren't examples of kung fu used in a fully resisting, all out situation. 2. of course hughes and liddel have been beaten. THEY ARE FIGHTERS. the only undefeated fighter is the one who has never fought. chuck has had 24 pro fights. naturally at some point, he will lose some of them. He is fighting other people who are also training to be the best. no need to remind - that is obvious. What is also obvious is that what is the most ingrained is that which is worked most - generally basics. If basics aren't ingrained well, flailing is the result. not really. I get spirituality in church. My MA training has nothing at all to do with that. MARTIAL arts are just that - fighting arts. anything else people with to bundle it with is their decision. Any untrained adult can also develop the power to hurt or heal on their own free will. That is not spirituality at all.

If MA is not about belt rank but skill, does it matter if I hand a 5th dan to a 10 year old? because of the connotation that tends to come with a black belt, quite obviously. At that level, you are allowed to teach, and to most non MA are at a level of mastery, which is laughable at best. IMO, ranks are completely unnecessary. Look at muay thai, wrestling and several other styles out there. Belt ranks give people a sense of achivement and can be used to determine seniority from a quick glance. These are nice to haves, but are far from a necessity.

it does account for physical capacity though. most 15 year olds will ever be as strong as a healthy adult male. IMO, you must have the physical ability to use the skills you were given. having the skill means little if you can only use it effectively against a limited number of the population. In judo, if I recall correctly has an age requirement of 17. I can see the point behind your argument here. However, there are skills to be learned that are not physical, such as environmental awareness and things like this. Physical strength has nothing to do with these skills, yet these skills could save a child from an adult, just the same. However, we don't ever discuss these skills when we make the black belt age argument. We just picture the kid having to fight the adult. I don't disagree with that. However, you don't have to have a black belt to learn those things.

it does account for physical capacity though. most 15 year olds will ever be as strong as a healthy adult male. IMO, you must have the physical ability to use the skills you were given. having the skill means little if you can only use it effectively against a limited number of the population. In judo, if I recall correctly has an age requirement of 17. I am not convinced about that. Just because a 15 year olds physical ability can not match that of an adult, why should they be denied Dan grade. I am a grown man, but my physical ability might not match that of man 12 inches taller than me and 4 stone heavier. Does this mean I shouldn't be allowed to be a black belt? No. It means you need to train harder. Either that or look more into proper use of things like leverage. your adult frame combined with said knowledge should be enough. If I am grappling a guy 100 lbs heavier than me (which I have) and cannot find a way to seize an advantage, then that is entirely my fault. At age 15, however, my body is not fully matured yet. in judo (sticking with that example), there is no junior shodan. IMO, that is the way it should be. MA is not about belt rank anyway, but skill level, so why would you feel the desire to have a black belt? just keep your junior ranking and continue to advance until you are old enough to attaina black belt.

it does account for physical capacity though. most 15 year olds will ever be as strong as a healthy adult male. IMO, you must have the physical ability to use the skills you were given. having the skill means little if you can only use it effectively against a limited number of the population. In judo, if I recall correctly has an age requirement of 17.

yes. Some styles do this. Judo is one.

I wasn't implying it was a streetfight, merely that it's not that uncommon for an untrained person to beat a trained person. What was it like training with him?

you pull out a knife, they pull one too. I ALWAYS have mine with me. Why do some tma guys love to think that because they train a traditional style, they are the only ones with weapons? what does your stick or knife do against my 9mm? What happens when you put the mma guy in a street fight? his punches, kicks, knees and takedowns hurt just as badly. I have seen several TMA guys get mauled in streetfights. Any idea why this happens? matter of fact, have you ever seen the match between gerard gordeau and yuki nakai? in those days eye gouges were permissable - you would be penalized and fined, but not disqualified. gordeau put his finger knuckle deep in nakai's eye - nakai STILL won that match AND the match after that. nakai is now blind in that eye, but he won the fight. Had it been life or death, he would be blinded, but gordeau would be dead. the monks at the temples of today do wushu... knees, takedowns punches and elbows are great for self defense. You have no advantage over the mma guy on the street. unlikely. Like I said, I have a knife on me at all times. what does calling a point have to do with mma?

competing does not make them mma. it merely makes them fighters - what they should be anyway.