Montana

I've been teaching classes since September of 1978 and I realized early on that few people are willing to make the commitment to training in the arts to become really good martial artists. Oh sure, you get your students that show up for classes 2-3 times/week and while there, train hard and do well, but I'm talking about REALLY making training a commitment on a daily basis. Commitment to training in your chosen art shouldn't be a 2-3 days/week, but rather should be something you do daily if you really want to be good at it. Daily training outside of class doesn't have to be 2 hours of basics, kata and drills, but rather can be something simple. Every now and then I ask my students..."How much training have you done this week?" Most wilol say "Ive been to very class this entire month!" or such. Which is GREAT! "But, how much training have you done outside of class?" As an instructor, I can tell a difference between those students that train outside of class, and those that train only in class. Especially in the early months of training, it really shows from class to class in the improvement in their technique, speed and power. Martial arts training needs to be a daily routine at some level. Run thru a kata when you get a few minutes. Practice your basics (wax on, wax off) as you go about your daily lives. Just to give you an example of outside training I do on a daily basis: I work in an office building (my really job that pays the bills) that has 3 floors. Due to the design of the building when I get to work and leave for the day, I generally take the elevator instead of the stairs. If I'm alone in the elevator, which is the norm, when the doors close I will run thru a kata sometimes, or other times assume a stance and whip out as many punches, blocks or kicks as I can before the elevator stops at my floor. At home (this drives my wife nuts as she has no interest in the arts) I habitually turn lights on/off at the wall switch with my feet while doing a slow, well controlled front, side and sometimes back kick. I will walk from room to room doing blocks, kicks or punches. I will spontanously do a spinning back kick, backfist or elbow, concentrating on my technique and stance. My wife leaves for work about 30 minutes before I do. If I'm ready to leave but still have a few minutes, I will run thru a kata or two before I walk out the door. Doing anything along that line will improve your overall martial arts ability and keep your mind and body sharp and prepared. Thoughts?

Exactly my point.

At a ripe old age of 58, I've probably broken, sprained or jammed all of my fingers at one time or the other and yes, believe me, it hurts! The thought of grappling with someone with a broken or severely sprained finger isn't pretty, and would certainly stop me if my opponent continued to attack the damaged digit. The thumb would be the best, but trust me, any finger is good. Especially if your opponent grabs you and you have access to prying out a finger and give it a good twist or bend. Short of being on drugs and not feeling any pain, I think it would successfully stop most people from wanting to continue, especially if you're still yanking on that finger AFTER it breaks!

Dictionary.com defines test as: 1. the means by which the presence, quality, or genuineness of anything is determined; a means of trial. 2. the trial of the quality of something: to put to the test. 3. a particular process or method for trying or assessing. 4. a set of questions, problems, or the like, used as a means of evaluating the abilities, aptitudes, skills, or performance of an individual or group; examination. All of these apply to martial art belt testing I think. Basically, a test is a way of evaluating what you have learned and retained, and being able to demonstrate that knowledge to others at a specific moment in time. So when you successfully demonstrate your knowledge and ability to to regurgitate taht knowledge in front of your sensei/testing board to their satisfaction, you've PASSED! Great, huh? So what's the problem? The one problem I see is that for that one exact moment of time you were able to demonstrate your retention of specific knowledge and abilities of information you were given over a specific time period. But coudl you do the exact same thing, with the exact same degree of "perfection" say...a month from now? A year? Maybe (hopefully)...and maybe not. I don't want to mention any names, but there are systems out there that once you've passed a test to attain a certain belt level, then you no longer are required to practice or test on the same material...ever! For example, in my chosen system for our first belt test the kata Pinan Shodan, the basic blocks, kicks and punches and stances, and proper walking techniques (moving forward, sideways and backwards from those stances). If I were to assume (we know what that means, right?) that my stdentsknows this material later on because he/she already tested on it, and I never look at it again as a testing criteria, and the student knows that, then chances are those particular techniques will begin to deteriorate. Is this a bad thing? Absolutely! Building your skills as a martial artist is like building a house. if your foundation is weak from the beginning, the entire structure is weak. If your foundation weakens anywhere along the way, the whole house is weak and could collapse at any given time. You must keep a strong foundation at all times and practice that foundation repeatedly for as long as you train. Without a strong foundation, everything else is weak. The testing process ALWAYS needs to include the foundation techniques and principles of your chosen art.

My thoughts exactly! If not for self-defense, then you might as well take up break dancing, gymnastics or knitting in my opinion.

Ahhh shucks. I'd like to thank all the little people that helped me be who I am today. Without them to stomp on on my way to the top, I'd have never made it. Thanks...now, where's my trophy?

Its not so much a question of 'dont work' or even 'cant work'. We can always find examples of where they have worked for people in self-defence. The question is, are they the safest, most reliable thing you can do under the circumstances? Imagine the Kyokushinkai fighter being shoved from behind by his opponent's mate just as he's throwing a kick. How much more disruptive to his balance would it be if he's throwing a high kick at the time rather than a low kick? Imagine that, instead of fighting on a clean flat mat, he's in a bar in which the floor is wet in patches with spilt beer and occasional bits of broken glass? Imagine that the penalty for going down on your posterior is not that the fight is momentarily stopped by the ref, or even that the opponent wins the match, but that the assailant and his mates close in and kick you unconscious or worse. And so on and so on. The gist of it is that the requirements of self-defence are very different from those of the sporting arena. The two scenarios require very different tactics. Mike Exactly! Good post.

Since I'm not familiar with the rules of that tournament, let me ask you. 1. Do they allow full power groin techniques? 2. Do they allow full power kicks to the knee? 3. Do they allow sweeps to the supporting leg? Basically, are there rules? If so, then they negate the premise that the martial arts are based upon. That being no rules for selfdefense purposes. Anytime you train in a class, you automatically place a ruleset on yourself. Competition is no different. As far as the above: (1) In sparring, no, but can you name any martial art that spars with full power to the groin on a regular basis? (2) Again, name one martial art that spars with full power to the knee on a regular basis. Although, since they do allow low kicks to the thigh (gedan mawashi geri), it's just a matter of target selection by that point. The same applies to attacking the groin area: it's target selection, not the technique itself. (3) Actually, yes they do. Ashi barai (leg sweep) is a popular technique among some of the more technical fighters. Ahhh..now I see the problem. You're talking from the perspective of a nice, friendly dojo or tournament sparring scenerio. Whereas I'm talking from the perspective of defending yourself on the street. There are a lot of major differences there.

Since I'm not familiar with the rules of that tournament, let me ask you. 1. Do they allow full power groin techniques? 2. Do they allow full power kicks to the knee? 3. Do they allow sweeps to the supporting leg? Basically, are there rules? If so, then they negate the premise that the martial arts are based upon. That being no rules for selfdefense purposes.

Agreed! I remember the days of early Ninjitsu in this country with Stephen Hayes....not pretty in my opinion. A whole lot of B-Ninja movies at that time, and a whole lot of phony "we dress in black and say we're ninja" schools popping up all over the place. I found one dojo that quite literally had pasted fire cracker wrappers hanging on the walls as certificates. No kidding! What you need to do is look at the shools, take some free classes, talk to the instructors (they'll all tell you they''re the best by the way), see how the classes are run, costs for uniforms, classes and tests..and do they use contracts? Kind of take it from there. I imagine your parents will need to get involved, and so they should be since they're paying for it, plus they have to pay the medical bills if you get into some shoddy dojo that is totally crap and frought with poor instruction.

As I said, a test is a test because it's a test. It doesn't make you better, it looks to see how good you really are. You might be great in class when only you, your partner and your sensei/sempai are looking, but when everyone in the room is watching the heat is on. It's closer to a real situation. That's why it's done. I disagree. Having your peers or higher ranks watching you is nothing like what you'll experience in a real fight. Sure, both are stressful, but totally different kinds of stress. In a test you're concentrating on your form, technique and trying to not forget your kata! Whereas in a fight you're concentrating on your opponent and surroundings (or should be anyway).

I've been looking through old topics today and came across a couple that I thought might be worth refreshing again. Enjoy! Being nearly 60 years old, and having spent almost 2/3 of my life in the martial arts, makes me think of some weird things now and then. Do you fear your Sensei? Do you fear the head of your system? Do you fear your seniors in the class? These people have the ability to teach you many concepts and skills, and that's what you're there for, right? Of course you are. Yet these same people have the ability to withhold that information from you by denying your advancement, feeding you only little tidbits of information in small doses, or if you dare to challenge them in what they teach you, they have the power to expell you from their classes altogether. Doesn't this instill a bit of fear into you to behave correctly, according to their rules? Does the forced practice of saying "Yes SIR!" to their question, or face corporal punishment (such as pushups) instill fear in your to answer "correctly" or be punished? I don't know about you, but I hate pushups. What makes these seniors, these higher ranking members of the same system that you are practicing, any better than you are? What makes them demand that you treat them in a God-like fashion? That their every utterance is law and that when they say jump, you have to ask "How high Sir?" Maybe I was spoiled as a student. My origional sensei, fresh from learning the art from the head of the system in Okinawa, asked us to either call him Dennis or sensei in class, and outside of class it was just Dennis. Not Mr. Miller. Way back in June of 1978 the head of our system, 7th Dan (at the time) Kuda Yuichi Sensei travelled from Okinawa at the invitation of my sensei to train us for 3 weeks. There was no bowing and scraping or kissing his...hand. We bowed in to him at the beginning and end of class, and called him sensei, or Sensei Kuda. He hated being called Master. After class, ALL students were invited frequently to have dinner with him in Dennis's home, or we went out and all had a beer together. Sensei Kuda was the most peaceful, gentle and unassuming person I had ever met, but also one of the most talented martial artist I will have ever known. About 15 years later, I had the opportunity to train with Sensei Kuda again in Seattle for a week. Amazingly, Sensei Kuda remembered me immediately, approached me and shook my hand and said "I'm happy to see you are still training." He was now a 9th Dan head of the system. How many of the heads of your system would even acknowledge your existence, let along greet you like a friend you hadn't seen in years? Alas, Sensei Kuda passed away in 1999. I never feared him, nor Sensei Miller, or any other ranking sensei in my chosen system that I've had the opportunity to meet. They have my respect because of their knowledge, and because they treat me as an equal, regardless opf what belts we hang around our waist or certificates hanging on our walls. We are all just people on the same path to learning.

\ What is a belt test exactly? Think about it. Isn't it a procedure to see what you know, and how well you know it? Does making a person write papers or test for hours at a time in front of intimidating higher rankis make you any better than minutes before the test?? Does doing a kata to music make you a better martial artist? This gives me an idea for a new thread in General Martial Arts...stay posted! lol

One thing that nobody has mentioned yet, is the fundamental purpose of the martial arts at the beginning of their existance. Self-survival. No worries about points. Forget trophies, and forgot how cool you look doing a high kick. Karate, JJ, KungFu, etc is all about, at the core level, self-preservtion of yourself, or others. Period. High kicks are a relatively new "invention". They have little, or no, effectiveness outside of tournaments, demonstrations and "dojo fun times". High kicks, in a real fight situation, leave you with poor balance and most importantly, vulnerable to a wide variety of counter moves, not so say the least of which is your groin/knee area is totally exposed and suseptable to being taken out. I've had this same discussion many, many times over the past 30 plus years with sensei from systems that do high kicks, flying kicks and jumping/spinning kicks. Yes, they look cool, but unless your opponent stands still like a post, they are generally very ineffective in a real situation. I admire the athletic abilities of these people to do the gymnastics type of kicks that they do, but I'm from the old school...if it won't work in a real situation, then it's not worthwhile.

My origional sensei was a 3rd dan, and the guy from MN was a 4th, so we "assumed" (you know what that means of course) that he was correct. Well, he wasn't, but at the time we were starved for ANYBODY that could teach us more. I was without a sensei for 7 years when I travelled to Minnisota to meet a 6th Dan (not the same as the other guy) by the name of Sensei Greg Ohl and trained with him. He was doing things exactly the same as I had been doing (the correct way) and I was totally surprised that he made very few, and only minor changes to my techniques. Legitimate (there are a lot of "wannabes) Matsumura Seito Sensei are few and far between in the states, but I absolutely, and unconditionally love this system.

As martial artists, regardless of what system you choose to practice, we are weapons. That's what we are training for...or should be at least IMO. Whether you decide to utilize that "weapon" or not in a confrontation, is your decision. My wife and I choose to live in the country on our own little 5 acres of paradise 15 miles from town. It's quiet, I have good neighbors that I trust and we watch over each other's property when we're not around. At the front of my driveway, about 60 yards from my house, I have a sign nailed to a tree that says... "If you can read this, you're in range!" "NO TRESPASSING or SOLICITING!" We have horses that are GREAT at letting us know when we have "visitors", and also a great big black lab that does the same. I am well armed with a variety of "reach out and touch someone" firearms for both long distance (30-06 that I cat hit a gallon milk jug at 300 yards), mid-range (SKS at 100 yards) and close quarters (home defender shotgun, .357 mag, 9mm and a couple of .22's) and have a military background and training. If there would happen to be civil unrest in town, I would go to work using a route which would avoid that unrest and the same with going home. There are 2 small towns close by, so I could avoid "the city" totally if needed except to work. I have a ton of pellet stove pellets in the garage, and I tend to buy food in bulk. I have my own well and a gas powerede generator, which gets used several times during a typical winter here. I'm not paranoid by any means, but open minded enough to understand that "stuff" happens sometimes, and I'd rather be prepared before I needed to be, rather than after it's to late.

2 day tests? 7-9 hours of testing? Music??? I'm sorry, but what does any of that have to do with the martial arts and what you know? I like the way the head of our system tested, and the way I have been testing my students since the early 80's. When you know what I want you to know and do it with the skill level I want you to do it at, I give you a certificate and you're promoted. Takes all of 2 minutes. Then we get back to work and train some more.

Along the same lines as this topic, I studied and got my shodan from my sensei in June of 1978 and about a year later my sensei moved to the other side of the country. Living in a small town in Montana (12,000 people) with no other sensei in my chosen system any closer than a 10 hour drive away (Seattle, but I didn't know it at the time), myself and the other students were left to our own devices pretty much. There were 3 shodan black belts altogether, myself being the most senior time-wise by over a year. Long story short, we three and our students trained as well as we could, but eventually one of the other black belts started being a real pain and wanting to change everything to the way HE felt things should be done, which was contrary to the way we were taught by our sensei. So we split off and the other black belt and I went elsewhere and took about 75% of the class with us and started another dojo in my basement. Life was good for a couple of years until the "renegade" blackbelt called me one day and said he was in contact with a 4th Dan BB in Minnesota that was going to come for a weeks visit soon, and if we agreed to pay half his expenses he would allow us to train with him. We agreed, and that's when all heck broke loose! This 4th Dan changed literally EVERYTHING from what we had learned. Blocks were higher and more extended, we started throwing hips into techniques (not something we were taught origionally by our other sensei), katas changed, etc. So we changed to this new way of doing things, and continued that way for maybe 5 years or so, until I found an address from a 7th Dan in our system by the name of Ron Lindsey in Texas. Sensei Lindsey is one of the top Shorin Ryu Matsumura Seito people in the country. Sensei Lindsey sent me a couple of excellent video tapes he had made and when my senior student and I sat down to eagerly watch them, we were just about floored! Sensei Lindsey did things the same way we USED to do them before meeting the 4th Dan from Minnesota!!! Within a week we changed back to the way we had origionally learned. I offered to make copies of the tapes and give them to our renegade "partner", but he declined saying that the way the 4th Dan was doing things was correct. So our split continued, which was fine with me. My gut told me the way the 4th Dan was teaching us wasn't right because it contradicted what we were taught by our origional sensei. I should have gone with my gut, but all has been well since that time, and we continue to practivce true Shorin Ryu as it was intended to be leanred. What the "renegade" is doing, I haven't a clue, and really don't care.

Something to also consider is that getting a BB in that system will not win you any respect in the martial arts community, despite any other BB you might attain. You would always have that little stigma hanging over your head. My thoughts anyway.

Sorry, but I couldn't help myself. Unfortunately, having been in the arts some 35 years or so now, I've had the dubious privilage of seeing arts like this being taught around the country. It's sad that the public that is seeking a legitimate martial art to learn doesn't have a clue that they are being taken by people like this.

Agreed, except in my case it'd be a 12 guage Home Defender loaded with alternating rounds of O-O buck and slugs for close in defense, and my Chinese SKS with hollow points for that "reach out and touch someone" situation. Very accurate at 200 yards. Or there's always the .357, .44 mag. or the ..... But for walking the streets during a riot (which is asking for trouble), it would be just me and whatever weapon I have at hand if the situation warrants.

A very solid post!! Agreed!!!

Hand chambering is used to learn proper technique for punching, not for sparring.

Well, an "example" of my response could be (but not limited to) to leap backwards a half step to avoid the attack causing the attacker to miss, which makes them off balance and exposing their side because they anticipated striking me, then to lunge forward with a snap kick to his lower abdomen/ribs or a groin/knee kick (whatever is available) and followed up with punches. There are many other options of course including what we call "change of body", or body shifting where your front foot remains stationary and your back foot shifts away from the opponent and you simultanously (sp?) move your body, block and throw your counter strike, usually followed up immediately with low kicks to vulnerable parts of the knees, groin or lower abdomen. Body shifting is hard to explain in print...much easier to show in a demonstration, but unfortunately I can't do that. I tried to get on utube to see if I could find an example of this and it wants me to register..what is that about? I tr4ied to register and it was supposed to send me some sort of "pin number", but it failed because I don't have premium messaging on my phone. Sooo...if you want to do a search for shorin ryu body shifting and see if there's something on there about it, feel free! lol

There is no "best technique" for any given attack. What works for me and that I choose to use at 6'6" tall and 245 lbs with 35 years of experience and training, may not work for the 5' tall, 100 lb women with 6 months of training and experience. That's why different techniques are learned and practiced.