Zanshin

Outside of the fact that there are good schools and bad schools in the same MA (which is a fact of life), often, different groups within the same style will operate their own unique syllabus.

I am afraid I have no knowledge of Chung Do Kwon Tae Kwon Do, but I am sure that if it has been recognised as a style in its own right, it has tangible tenets/principles that sets it apart from other styles. Groups and schools that operate under the umbrella of "Chung Do Kwon" almost certainly work to a syllabus that best engender these, how they do it though is probably entirely down to them.

In other words, it's down to your association to set your syllabus and not the style itself.

If your question is about what makes "Chung Do Kwon" tick, well that's probably down to you to fathom out and is all part of the journey I suppose.

Is the back foot in line with the front, or set shoulder width or so off? Mine's offset by about shoulder width.

As far as the actual foot position goes, I alway prefer to keep the pack foot pointed at the bad guy as well, this assist in movment forward and back. It also tends to keep the knee bent. The heel is up that way, so you don't get settled into a spot.

My front foot turns in just a hair. That way, when it's raised, it brings the knee over just enough to cover the groin from attacks from the front.

The foot position this way dosen't keep you "square" to h im, but cants the upper body to about 45 degrees. This keeps the weapons in play and give your body a bit of angle to deflet things at it. It's actually pretty close to ba boxing type stace and lets you move well.

At our club we use the traditional Karate posture of "Hanmi Gamae" for free sparing which literaly means "half preparation/posture"

It pretty much as you describe tallgeese, with the shoulder at 45 deg angle to the front.

An important princple of Karate Kumite is defending the centre line and by adopting "Hanmi" with your guard in the correct possition, you close down your vulnerable target areas whilst giving you prime positioning to launch an attack.

I also agree about the positioning of the back foot; for correct weight distribution, to allow the back foot to articulate correctly and most importantly to allow rapid forward and backward movement.

How many sprinters do you see "Take Their Mark" with the toes of the back foot pointed out 90 deg. Not only that, it also opens up your groin... Never a good idea.

See Tallgeese I dont think we are that far apart after all.

Zanshin-san

I completely understand your question, I have thought that myself on many occasions but such is life. I cannot continue to study two arts so merging them will allow me to perfect the techniques and Kata I have chosen.

This is an ongoing situation, until I reach a standard that I can do that I will continue to teach Ashihara Karate.

Again I must re-iterate that I owe it to my Sensei for showing me the way in martial arts

Hi Dobbersky,

I see, I think, so are you going to continue with training in both for the time being?

You have the advantage over me, as I have never done Ashihara karate, but I am sure that there are techniques that are common to both styles.

The only thing that I would worry about perhaps, is that by practicing them both and merging your training, you are not doing Ashihara or Wado. There is a risk that you will develope a sort of "homogenised" karate.

Now that appeals to some but most Wado-ka would be completely turned off by the idea.

I expect a lot from myself. I work hard, and will put my mind to it, so I will expect a lot from myself.

Quite right, it would be a waste of your time and money if you didn't.

I should have perhaps said don't expect too much from yourself too quickly.

I always think it is a shame when people start training in arts like Aikido and leave before they have had time to understand what makes it work. They often blame the instructor or the system itself for the shortcomings particularly if they have come from other systems with the preconceptions that often accompany this.

But I am sure you are not one of these people Bushi

Oh, no, I haven't been quiet. I've got it posted in The Martial Artists' Training Log thread. That's where I'll usually post my training stuff. If I have other ideas, questions, or concerns about Aikido itself, I'll prablably post them up here, though.

I have been reading through the student handbook I was given this Saturday, and I asked about some other suggested reading material to check out as well. Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere was suggested by the teacher and another student, which I already own and have read. Dynamic Aikido was suggested, too, so I'll check it out, too.

Understood.

Dynamic Aikido is that the one by Gozo Shioda? If so I understand it is a very good book for beginners.

I think that the basics will come along rather quickly. I don't think I'll master anything anytime soon, and that's ok. I wouldn't plan on it being that way. But, as for learning the basics, I think I can do it in a fairly good period of time (maybe not weeks, but months) and get good at it that I can really start putting things together.

Well I suppopse only time will tell. My advise to you though would be don't expect too much from yourself.

One issue is, I love traditional Wado Ryu Kata and enjoy Ashihara Karate, but I want to blend the 2 this is not an option with my Sensei.

With respect Dobersky, how are you going to "blend" Ashihara and Wado when you have only just started training in Wado?

Hi Bushi,

The Knee walking is called "Shiko" very important as a way to teach you how to move correctly using your hips.

Have fun

Emptying in a context of not using preconcieved notions to interfear with learning new aspects of fighting is a good thing. That willingness to learn is what keeps your own skills evolving.

However, prior experiance can be a good touchstone for basing new knowledge gains. It can lead to quiker learning of similar movement patterns. This is useful as well. Also, you always have to keep your own combative plan and principles in mind so you can assess how these new skills fit into your strategy.

So, as an actdote to learning it seems sound. However, you have to keep the grand strategy in mind at all times as to now get side tracked into areas that aren't propelling you towards your goal, whatever that may be.

I think you are right on top of it here, tallgeese.

I had an "empty your cup" moment at the Aikido seminar I attended last weekend. I went in with my prior knowledge, and even had to stop myself from my natural TKD tendencies (which was my "it hits all by itself moment" ). But, what I had to do, was try not to do my natural TKD/Hapkido stuff, and just do things the way the Sensei was showing us to do it. This worked surprisingly well for me, too. I still used my Hapkido knowledge of wrist cranking and joint locking, etc., to work on some of the locks and stuff, but with the new Tai Sabaki and such, emptying my cup was the only way to go.

Man, I'm getting all spiritual and stuff....

Tell me about it! I gotta back off a touch...

初心 = "Shoshin" or beginners (first) mind

To get the best out of anything new that your are learning from an MA perspective, you must empty your cup.

Not picking on you Bushi, but I noticed something from your "Aiki" thread about how you thought that the basics were a little different but in time you could get them down. Well...I am not sure this will be quick my friend, as it takes years to learn how to move well in Aiki-do and yes, I know you guys don't see the utility of studying any art that takes more than 5 minutes to learn how to become the next Chuck Liddell! lol.

Seriously though, I hope it is going well.

How did your training go this Saturday Bushi. You've been unusually quiet about it.

Thanks for your replies, I will check these sites out.

Gmac,

Lovely part of the world. My company has an office just near by that I work out of regularly.

Shotokan is very much alive and kicking in the South Hampshire area. The group that DWx highlighted has Dave Hazard listed as one of the top boys.

If I am not mistaken, another KF member "TraditionalDan" once trained with them / him.

Perhaps he can throw some light on them.

How do you feel about open-hand blocking techniques? Do you believe they have a genuine value, or that they are really useful only on odd occasion? Do you redirect when sparring, or do you feel that that's only done in self-defense drills and have little application other than knowing this aspect of the art?

I think open handed techniques (blocks or otherwise) are a very important application and work well particularly in close quarter fighting / manipulation.

I love the work the "Wing Chun" guys do with their sticky hand techniques.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PKKz6885KRE

Think you have answered your own question then!

You can afford to be entirely selfish in your decision.

I agree that loyalty is a fundamental part of what makes us what we are, but it can also tie us down and restrict us.

Weigh up what gives you the best opportunities for your own personal advancement and goals, both now and for the future. If that is staying with your current sensei then so be it. If however this will limit your access to higher level training, gradings, courses, and competition which you may feel are important to your progression, then maybe this is not the best move for you.

Its art over instructor really. I know what I would choose.

There you go, lookin out for me as always Z. Thanks.

I still have trouble buying into the one punch one kill that this seems to put forth. I've always been a combination guy myself. Still, it's good to know what they're acually talking about.

No worries.

Actually I agree with you and I have always looked at this expression as more of an idiom.

I think a previous poster mentioned that it was probably a hangover from Kenjutsu, which I feel is a valid explanation.

I have also heard that Kiai (shout) points in kata are supposed to be a reflection of " Ikken Hissatsu". Sort of makes sense to me if you take the term Kiai literally (harmonising of ones energy/will into the ultimate strike).

May be as a final part of a combination.

Interesting. I would interperate it to mean total commintment to attack. Leaving all behind to damage the opponant.

I'll have to bounce this one off a friend of mine who is fluent and see what he has to say.

一 (Ichi) = One

拳 (Ken) = Fist

必 (Hitsu) = Certain

殺 (Satsu) = Kill

Spoken "Ikken Hissatsu"

There you go tallgeese my man.

I think if you already have a core art like Shoto, learning Goju for the few years whist you are at Uni could be counter productive to the principles inherent to Shoto.

Personally if I were you I would go to the Aiki club. Get your movement and "Aiki" down. It will only enhance your Shoto.

Doing Goju will screw it up.

...I may be entering another tournament soon so I'm starting to examine my blocks and stance, which is when I turned to YouTube for references and found people doing it WAY differently to the way I was...

When I did my first tourney I used a more boxing-esq stance but after my first round a guy from our club (who's a black belt in Shato, Wado and Judo) advised that I use a block that also covered more of my body (as per a drill like fighting stance) as the most common moves I would encounter would be: front snap kicks to the body, side kicks to the body, jabs to the face and reverse punches to the body... his advice did work for me (I won men's 3rd Kyu and bellow ) ... But I started to re-* that advice after visiting YouTube and seeing this very relaxed, low guard used so often.

I've since watched this(Kyokushin): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7cHghqmUEg

and I can certainly see a high guard working very well in their style of karate; very few "linear" or straight attacks are used, lots of high round house, crescent and axe kicks and a lot of the punches are a bit "hooky" or at least don't come out as straight as the ones I see in sparing in Wado.

Also can you post a link to the particular Wado clip you are refering to.

Zanshin "As a compound of two Japanese words - “Higi” = elbow and “Te” = hand"

I look at Higite as grapling or controlling the uke's by thier elbow or hand as you are punching. Higite also works great for finger locks.

Yep,

Works for me

I've just looked up some random Wado Ryu & Wado Kai Kumite on YouTube and almost every fighter keeps their hands low and leaves their centre line open.

By contrast, I (a very inexperienced fighter of about 4 months ) keep my leading hand around nose height, quite far out, but with the elbow still bent and tucked in, with the whole arm coming slightly across my centre-line. And my ready-hand slightly away from my body at belt height just in front of my navel. Mimicking, some what, the fighting stance done during drills.

Am I just doing it wrong or being too defensive?

Thanks.

Hi Waza,

If its the same clips I have seen on you tube, in the most part it is "Shiai" or semi contact point scoring karate.

As such, it is a game, where the objective is to beat / outwit your oponent in order to score the points (very much like fencing).

These guys train purely to compete in this type of event and as such they utilise specific techniques and "tricks".

The lowering of the guard and opening up of the center line are just a couple of these , and are used to entice your oponent into an attack, and/or set up for a counter technique.

In this type of Kumite its all about gaining the upper hand in the tactical exchange, and therefore the "fighting stance" has evolved as the most effective to this sort of kumite.

It is also not unique to Wado. It is the way that most of the major styles fight in competition under WKF regulations.

Shiai Kumite should not be confused with Jiyu Kumite (free sparing) which most good Wado dojos will practice.

Have you ever trained in a Wado dojo? just out of interest.

i think rohie is a good kata to sum up my style its all about timing and breathing.

Rohai?

Just out of interest, what is different about the breathing in Rohai compared to any other Wado Kata? Curious, caus I have never looked at it like that.

Rohai has many dynamic jumps, and one leg stances that call to for special breathing in alignment with posture and balance...

Hi Tenshika,

In Wado Katas it is my understanding that breathing is performed naturally as an important part of all katas.

I have never been taught that this Kata has more emphasis on controlled breathing.

Also Wado Rohai has no jump in it.

But thankyou for your explanation from a TKD perspective. Interesting.

Oops just spotted I already mentioned that in a previous post.

My thoughts on sweeps, Kuzushi, balance breaking call it what you will is that sometimes less is more.

Just do enough to off balance your oponent or break their posture (shisei) so as to leave them open for whatever you fancy next.

I like Bushi's mates approach of throwing in some feints in order to pre-empt a sweep.

I forgot to mention, but for those of you who have this theory(some of you may not, it is usually a high ranking theory), or any of you who have the basic idea of this theory...i've learned a lot from the opposite circles theory, applying to jujitsus(off balancing/takedown techniques). For those of you who don't know it, perhaps researching it or asking an instructor would be up your ally. It is a wonderful and confusing theory having to do with what's being said here.

Very hard to explain out of a dojo setting, though.

Referred to as "Kuzushi" in Japanese.

i think rohie is a good kata to sum up my style its all about timing and breathing.

Rohai?

Just out of interest, what is different about the breathing in Rohai compared to any other Wado Kata? Curious, caus I have never looked at it like that.

Well, I have updated my Aikido experience in the Martial Artists' Training Log thread, so I won't rehash all of it here. But, I will throw in some information here as well.

I really enjoyed the seminar, and I learned a lot of new things about how to move, and how to stay more relaxed and use my "center" to help with techniques. Several of the guys there commented that I had a good center (which means I have a use for my big hips! ), if I can just take the time to work on it. The basics were kind of confusing, but with time, I can get them down.

The seminar was put on by the Fort Hays State University Aikido Club, and this club is under the Aikido Association of America. Sensei Stephen Toyoda was the seminar instructor, and I thought that he was a very nice, genuine person. He was very helpful when we had questions, and I thought that he was a very good instructor.

The best news that I found out over the course of the weekend was that the Aikido Club has a class on Saturday mornings, and the club is free of tuition. So, I may go back on Saturday for a class.

I am really glad you enjoyed it Bushi, maybe you even picked up some Japanese lol.

Learning how to move correctly from the "hara" (center) is very important in most traditional Japanese MA. My students will tell you that I "bang on" about very little else.

The Basics you were referring to, did they call it "Jumbi" by any chance?