DWx

So bascially what they did in this meeting was agreed to have another meeting.... Yeah.. they don't seem to be doing much apart from agreeing that there are differences between the styles (I could have told them that!). There are a couple of bits though:

Your videos are really good ps1. Your good at explaining because even I can follow on.

I don't think its time wasted... they must have had to work out feasible applications for the moves so there's your bunkai. And being able to deliver them properly requires speed and precision, something which you'd need if you ever had to use your Karate properly. Its only slightly more showy than a set sparring environment. And if it inspires others to start training its a good thing right?

Junior & Veteran Worlds are on this week. My instructor is competing so hopefully they'll put up some webcams so I can watch. http://www.taekwon-do.uz/

ITF/WTF held another meeting, details of which are on the ITF website: https://www.itftkd.org (on the right of the homepage).

I want one of those!

I didn't realize that Hangul is a letter system. When you stated that 24 is the smallest number to be divisible by exactly eight factors, DMx, it got me thinking to solve it (1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 12, 24), and as you stated, eight is an important Asian number. There was a book called The Celestine Prophecy that was popular back in the '90s. One of its thought-provoking claims was that there are no coincidences. I don't know whether "letters" is the right word for it. I think the proper term is "Jamo" (sp?) but anyway there are 24 bits that you put together. And thank Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_(number) , for the number fact. I'm not that clever to just think these things up. I don't know whether Gen. Choi would put that much thought into the whole 24 forms for his system. I would expect that most of the mathematical properties just like an added bonus after the idea of 24 hours.

Actually thats a pretty good point BlackSilver. Although I think its a bit of a gamble because you don't know that always work. The victim could be in a situation where, although the attacker is distracted, they or an accomplice have now pinned them down and there is even less of a chance of escaping because the attacker has been able to put themselves in that controlling position. Also I think it would be very hard in a situation like that to think clearly and wait for the best opportunity. Still something to think about though. BTW, nice signature Roys15.

We actually learnt quite a nice little application for the tornado kick at the weekend. Surprised me how effective it was as I usually don't bother with spinning or jumping. If an opponent is rushing you and you do a side kick and get pushed backwards without finishing the kick, you can use that momentum to push yourself off and spin 360, getting them with the kick as you land. Works equally as well with a jump back kick and you are moving away whilst they place themselves in the path of the kick. Will see if I can get a video to explain a little better. I do agree less is more however I also think that everything has value and a potential application even though it may not suit your style or fighting ability.

When I started it was called "Korean Karate". That doesn't mean its an offshoot. A lot of schools called it Korean Karate because they didn't have a name for it yet. Particularly when introducing Westerners to it because a lot of people knew what Karate was but they didn't know many other styles. It was probably becaucse most Westerners associated the term "Karate" with unarmed combat orignating from the East. There is definitely something there. This is attributed to the "can do" spirit of the Korean people (indomitable spirit), as well as their spirit of "Hongik Ingan", and sense of national pride and identity. They took a country left in ruins, and turned it into a thriving economic powerhouse. Under Japanese oppression, during the occupation (ending in 1945) they took what they had, and transformed it into something unique, and beautiful. It does not, however, change the fact that it was strongly rooted in Japanese Karate. I dont really give Tae Kyon too much credence as an influence on TKD...Choi Hong Hi claims to have studied it, but to me"it just dont add up" . Hwag Kee says he witnessed it, and secretly watched men training from afar, copying their movements, because he was refused to be a direct student, coincidentaly, Soo Bahk Do's kicks strongly resemble tae kyon as practiced by students from the Song Duk Ki lineage. I don't deny that a lot of Korean MA comes from Japanese lineage. However I just don't think you can really call TKD an offshoot per se. I might be being a bit pedantic about the semantics but "offshoot" implies that Karate was the parent style and that TKD is a branch of it. I don't think this is really what TKD is. For a start the Karate influence itself comes from all over the place as those that did learn Karate didn't learn it from one source. And there are so many other elements to it that TKD doesn't exactly stem directly from Karate. I'm confused, you just attributed Korean MA to a Tae Kyon influence, and said it was not so much Karate influence (see above post), and then this? For the most part, I agree with the end of your post...But not all Korean MA fall under that lineage...Kuk Sool is definitely one of them, and their are others that were and are practiced in Buddhist temples still...Sun Moo Do, Iron Wheel Kwon Bup etc. I never attributed Korean MA to authentic TaeKyon. I just said that there is something there that makes TKD and similar Korean styles distinctively Korean and there is a possibility that TaeKyon could be an explaination for this. However I also said it could be because of the effort to revive Korea's cultural identity by a concious effort to try to make these systems more Korean and less Japanese. Rather than being decendant from TaeKyon or containing real TaeKyon elements I personally think its more of a combination of "We hate all things Japanese, we love everything Korean" and "Hey anyone remember that old kicking game TaeKyon? Lets try to copy some of that and put it into our style to make it more Korean". Then you get the history stories of "This new Korean art came from our country's proud heritage and has nothing to with our Japanese oppressors" in order to further distance the styles from the Japanese methods. There was a discussion on the forum some months back where TaeKyon's influence was discussed: http://www.karateforums.com/tae-kyon-s-kicking-influence-vt31257.html "Japanese influence" and "Japanese MA influnce" are not the same. I meant that the Japanese occupation had an effect on Korean MA and not just that Japanese MA had an effect on Korean MA. The Japanese occupation itself had a number of effects. Firstly they tried to erradicate all elements of Korean culture, including Korean methods of fighting, resulting in very little of the Korean MAs surviving. Aside from the Muye Jebo, Muye Dobo Tongji and what was continued underground nothing survived. Secondly they did expose the Koreans to Karate but they also exposed them to Chinese methods after some Koreans went to Manchuria and China. And finally once Korea was given independance the Koreans underwent a period of cultural revival to try to restablish themselves and recreate a national identity. With regards to this methods of "Korean" fighting were promoted. I also said "nearly all". I don't claim to know anything about Kuk Sool I was merely responding in agreement to the comment made about the majority of Korean arts claiming they come from an ancient lineage when in fact they most likely do not.

I really like that analogy - Nice. Also 24 is a mathematical factor of 108 - a very important number in Eastern MA. Could be a coincidence, but I doubt it. There's also only 24 Hangul letters. And 24 is the smallest number to be divisible by exactly 8 factors (again an important Asian number) but I think that last one is just coincidence.

Very nice. Especially the aerial kicks to takedowns as they require a fair bit of precision.

I would pick Tong-Il. Its a powerful form and makes use of both slow and fast motions. But I wouldn't pick it just because of the physical aspect but more because what it represents philosophically. It is the last and 24th tul of the Chang Hon system and in simple terms represents the unification of Korea and peace across the peninsula which was one of Gen. Choi's dreams. Whereas for all the other dan grades (in ITF) you learn 3 tul per rank, Tong-Il is the only one learnt at 6th before you grade to 7th & become a Master so it represents mastery over the style and the whole cycle starting again. It being the 24th pattern also has special significance because Gen. Choi specifically used 24 tul to represent how, compared to eternity, we only have 24hrs to make our mark on the world.

How is Hwarang Do connected to Kuk Sool? I think most people take the line that HWD evolved similarly to the TKD Kwans and has very little to do with the Hwarang themselves. And I wouldn't necessarily say that TKD is just an offshoot of Karate. Depending on which Kwan sometimes the Chinese influence is equally important and there is definately a strong Korean element present in the system. You can attribute that to either TaeKyon or you can say it was a product of post-Japanese Korea trying to rebuild a cultural identity but its still there, sometimes much more than the Karate links. IMHO nearly all of the modern Korean styles have been influenced in some way by the Japanese occupation and have very little to do with the ancient Korean styles such as Subak. Its all down to trying to Korea-fy themselves and get rid of Japanese elements.

How many books do you have?

IMHO it depends what you're doing and how you fight. In a kicking art like TKD I'm looking to build up the major leg muscles, the quads, hamstring, gastrocnemius etc. Something more focused on the arms and you'd want good biceps, triceps... I think compared to a lot of other physical activities, MA requires strong, fast muscles all over the body as you use every bit of your body. Best to train it all .

To be honest I don't think those claims carry much weight and even if they did what does it matter, the N. Koreans probably tried to use all sorts of people to assasinate the S. Koreans. If you notice who their source was, Choi Jung Hwa, it doesn't exactly mean all that much. Choi Jung Hwa always had a problem with the N. Korean government using Gen. Choi and the ITF as a political tool. He was actually removed as Gen. Choi's successor because of his issues with NK. His "confession" seems to be more politically motivated than any else, especially given NK's 60th anniversary.

Agreed its very unlikely that ITF have the numbers. The WTF and its regional unions represent far more countries than the individual ITFs and probably far more individual practitioners (it is hard to say though with the ITF split into three at the moment). Also am I right in thinking that the ITFs being private orgs as opposed to a public org is a problem for the Olympics?

Would be cool if they did even the smaller papers. I always wanted to research our family history fully but found I couldn't get local papers from abroad easily.

I personally don't have a problem with people studying at home. IMO it shows real dedication as they want to put time into things outside of class. I would draw the line though if a student was attempting to learn a new form when their current form was far from perfect. Likewise when they start trying to learn the really advanced moves when they can't really do the basic ones very well.

The amphibious RV reminds me of that kids show, The Wild Thornberry's. Wouldn't mind having the personal aircraft .

Chang Ung's ITF is currently involved in talks with the WTF and IOC: http://www.internationaltaekwon-dofederation.com/ Out of the three, the other two being GM Choi Jung Hwa's http://www.itf-administration.com/ and Master Trân Triêu Quân's http://www.tkd-itf.org/ , Chang Ung probably has the best chance at agreeing a merger with the WTF. He is a member of the IOC (this year he got to hand out some Judo and Boxing medals) so has pretty close links to the Olympic side of it. Although GM Choi Jung Hwa's has some close ties with WTF, they are too small now to make anything of it. And as for Master Trân Triêu Quân's they don't seem to like WTF much: (from the homepage)I don't really know what the WTF would want from an ITF. There doesn't seem to be much benefit for them. However, as for the ITF, the only thing I think they could want is the Olympics. After this year's games they could have a chance now at getting in but it seems unlikely.

I've just watched it properly and from 1st school they showed the guy asks one of the girls if she's angry yet because the other kid messed up her hair. Sure a bit of anger is good to have but at that age linking anger to fighting to sport is not not good. If I had a kid I would much rather put them in the play MA even if it isn't that combat focused, broken bones at that age just aren't worth it.

I gotta admit I like all the Wushu and wire work. Hero and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon are on my lists of favourites as is Kung Fu Hustle . Van Damme films are pretty good too and of course all the Bruce Lee movies.

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=5615095 What are all the opinions on this? I've only watched about 2 minutes of it (with the sound off because I'm at work ) but I'm shocked at the fact that these kids appear to be going full contact without minimal protection. They all seem to be taking a right beating. I would have expected that they'd had on some head gear and maybe some chest gear at that age. As a rule I'm not against kids in MA but looking at this they just can't handle it.