Shorinryu Sensei

I've never taken a San soo class, but there is a local dojo run by a 8th (maybe 9th) degree black belt which I have had the opportunity to watch numerous classes of theirs and demo's. I also have gotten into a discussion in the past with another member of this board some months ago and described (as I will here) what I saw, what the head of the dojo and students have told me, and what my opinions are of the art...as I have seen it done locally. Keep in mind that m exposre to this art is limited to this one dojo, but with a instructor ranked 8th/9th Dan, I would "assume" that he knows what he's doing. Do I feel it's a complete art? No, not even close. As the instructor and his students have told me, San Soo does not believe in defense, but rather overpowers and constantly attacks it's opponents. There are no defensive techniques in San Soo, according to these people. To me, this is just plain foolish, and against another skilled defensive fighter, will leave themselves wide open to counter attacks. San Soo's philosophy is that they can connect and devastate their opponent easily, and defensive techniques aren't necessary. Foolishness in my opinion. Sure, against an untrained, "Average Joe" on the street, it would probably work quite well. Against a good boxer or martial artist...no, I don't think so. For an example, the system I train in (and I'd wager the majority of other systems are the same) is very defensive oriented and we like an aggressive attacker. The vast majority of our techniques and training are geared for an attacker to come at you with hands, feet or weapons. Personally, I'm very non-aggressive when I fight and eat up an aggressive person. One thing the San Soo head instructor told me years ago, and has always stuck in my brain was this. "If you are walking on a path and another man walks towards you, do not get off the path. Rather, make the other person get off the path so that you can pass." This statement denotes pure aggression and intimidation to me, which is what the local San Soo dojo teaches. Sorry, I can't agree with that way of thinking, but to each their own. Again, this may just be unique to the local dojo, and not to all San Soo dojos. Another thing I witnessed in their classes was that promotions, once they reach 1st degree black (takes about 4 years), are WAY to fast. Basically, and this is what the head instructor told me, they can get one black belt per year after their shodan. The local dojo is VERY top heavy with high ranked people. I don't have exact figures, but the last time I watched the class, they had more 4th-7th Dans in it than they had under black belts.

In the dojo, the last thing I want to do is to try to intimidate my sparring partner. That's not a friendly thingb to do, and can leave bad feelings afterwards. I do not allow it in my students either. A real fight however, might be different. One thing though, and I've had students tell me this anyway. I do tend to intimidate them anyway. Why? Well, I'm 6'6" tall and about 240lbs. Kinda hard, even when smiling I guess, not to intimidate lower students sometimes.

Good topic! I';ll have students ask me periodically what we're going to do the next class, and I usually just shrug and tell them "It depends on who comes to class." The reason is this. If the class is primarily newer, beginning students, we will work more on kata and simplier techniques. A more advanced class, we'll work on harder techniques and harder kata. I used to be a school teacher and had to plan every class, but I've found that isn't easy to do in a karate class.

Like most of you I'm sure, I've noticed that all of Naturals posts are written the same way. I'd guess either English isn't his native language, or more likely, he's quite young and hasn't learned proper sentence structure and spelling yet. Can you tell I'm an ex-teacher? I was tempted to try to correct all of the mistakes and give him a "D"...but refrained. Oh yeah...in regards to the thread subject, I've successfully defended myself against 3 attackers in a real fight. It wasn't as tough as you'd think because of how they came at me. It could have turned out totally opposite if they had their s**t together.

Name: Paul (aka Tall Paul) Rank: Sandan in Shorinryu since 1990. Sandan (honorary) in TKD since 1985.

Although I've never trained in either of the AK or SS systems, I have had the opportunity to watch numerous AK classes in several different dojo's, and many classes at a local San Soo school. I like AK, but I feel the system (a often heard comment about them actually) that it's a very complicated and "flowery" system. I have no doubt that it is an effective self-defense system though. As for the local San Soo dojo. I got into a "discussion" with another member last year on this, but my observations and discussions with the instructors and students at the SS school has left me with this opinion. SS is a very aggressive martial art. Basically, as per the head of that dojo, they don't believe in defense at all..it's all ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!!! Sorry, I disagree with that approach. The other member of this forum I talked to on that subject told me that isn't the way they all are, but I would keep that in mind when you talk to the instructor and watch the class. What emphasis do they place on defense?

Well, way back in 1980, my sensei quit his job and packed up his family with 2 weeks notice, and moved from Montana to Minnesota. We, his students, were DEVASTATED!!! Patrick was his senior student, and the obvious choice to take over the class, but Patrick had no interest in teaching. He was a 2nd Dan. Sooooo...I, as a 1st Dan, took over the class, and have been teaching ever since. I'm still practicing the same system as taught by the late OSensei Yuichi Kuda of Okinawa. The organization has come and gone in several variations and disputes, and the one I'm in currently..for about a year now..is small, but seems OK. Even after 29+ years in this one system, I don't think I know enough to found my own system, and to be honest, I have little respect for those that do. I've seen a number of systems that have been started by low ranking black belts (or not even that high), and they have never impressed me.[/b]

I don't know about Denmark, but here in the US there's no laws about ANYBODY starting a martial arts class, regardless of legitimate rank held or not. However, if you sensei has a copywited name and logo, then yes, you should be protected from others non-permitted use of it.

Oh goody! My personal pet peeve! lol I have seen a testing of a 6 year old for his black belt which was covered by the local paper and TV station. The kid was amazing for his age, but black belt material? Not even! I've posted this before, but the way that I look at a black belt is this: 1. Does he have the maturity to be wearing that rank? 2. Are his techniques and knowledge of the art where it should be? 3. If I was absent from class, could this person step in and teach normal classes for me? 4. I think this is critical...can this person, against an average individual in a street fight, be able to defend himself or others against a larger, stronger opponent effectively? I used to be an elementary school teacher, teaching grades 5-9 at various times. IMHO, kids under the age of 16 lack #1, #3 and #4.

Do you Practice breaking ? Nope..never have, never will. Do you agree that it is apart of martial arts? For some systems it is a important part, for others, no. Personally, I feel it proves nothing and instills a false sense of power and confidence to students. What type of objects are used to break in your style? Just opponents bones What style do you do? See my profile to the left. Do you like or dislike this part of Martial arts? Dislike! See my reasoning in the 2nd question. Is it Benificial? Again, see my answer to the second question. [/b]

Actually, I think this is an EXCELLENT thread and topic to discuss! Before I started the martial arts, I was rather shy and introverted and found it difficult to stand before a group and speak. Not good for a new, fresh out of college school teacher! lol I have no problems with public speaking now and I attribute that to the confidence I have gained in 29+ years in the arts. The "higher belt" thing doesn't matter to me as I've never really been into promotions. It's the knowledge I crave and seek, not a piece of cloth wrapped around my waist. What I've noticed most out of my training is my reactions to things. For example, if something tips over on the table, or drops to the floor...I can often catch it before it goes all the way down. Along the same lines, I used to work at a grocery store and among my many duties was stocking the beer/pop coolers. and sometimes I would drop a bottle or 6-pack of beverage and I find I can usually catch, or at least prevent that the glass from breaking by catching it with my foot. It never fails to surprise me when that happens, and again, I attribute it to my training. I'm also much more aware of whaqt's going on around me than I was before. People moving about, noises indicating a possible danger...just a heightened awareness of my surroundings that I notice my non-martial artist friends don't pick up on until I bring it to their attention. I feel the arts have done a lot for me, and if I ever hit the lottery, I'll seek out my origional sensei and make the guy realize what his teachings have done for me, and how grateful I am for it.

I haven't personally been bested by a woman...yet, but I have no dillusions about it not being entirely possible at some future date. I've had several ladies in my classes in the past that routinely whipped butts in point sparring against many of the guys who were much larger, and higher ranked than they were. Full contact is another story. Judy P. and Jenny S. were both slim and quick. Judy was around 5'5" tall and liked to fight like a boxer. Lots of bouncing around the floor, jumping in and out with a quick jab. Jenny on the other hand was 5'10" and didn't bounce much (which is preferred), but hand legs I swear were 6' long! She faked a lot with punches and would roundhouse to the groin or ribs quite effectively.

I wear either an all black gi, all white gi, or black top, white bottom or black bottonm and white top. My students are allowed to wear either all black or white....no mixing until they get a black belt, then they can wear black pants and white top. I used to be more traditional, but living where I do, and seldom having anyone higher in rank than myself coming to visit this area..I figured "What differance does it make what color gi they wear?"..so made the change to black or white about 10 years ago. The students like the choice. No blue, red or other colors allowed.

I agree with JerryLove. We seldom do any type of spinning kick because your back is turned to your opponent...not a good idea. To defend against spinning kics, try these: 1. Move towards it. 2. Move back from it. 3. Move laterally to it. 4. Just plain move! Spinning kicks, if they connect, can be very powerful and plow right through most blocks or defenses. However, for the kicker, they can be awkward and hard to keep your center and balance if you miss.

I don't want to turn this into a TKD bashing thread, but since the subject has already been broached, I'll add my 2 cents worth here. In my 29+ years in the arts, I have had the opportunity to watch, and in a few cases, participate, in dozens of TKD dojangs in Montana, Idaho, Washington, California, Wyoming, Colorado, Georgia and Florida. I have also, as a judge and referee in dozens of open tournaments, gotten to watch and judge God knows how many TKD exponents in sparring, kata, breaking and weapons competition. Not all of these people I would classify in this manner, but I would say that the vast majority of TKD people I have met are grossly over-ranked for their skill level. By that, I mean that I have seen probably a hundred (+/-) TKD blackbelts, some ranking as high as 9th Dan, that I wouldn't consider skill-wise to be better than MAYBE a brown belt (just under black belt). Obviously, different people/systems have different standards for rank, and I'll readily admit, mine are quite high. I do not give out black belts to children (for example), because I feel that a black belt means that you should be able to teach ANYBODY if needed to, and I can't see a 6-12 year old black belt teaching a class of beginning ADULTS, nor being able to spar realistically with them. Also, a black belt to me means that that person should be able to handle MOST self-defense situations on the street against your average adult. Tell me honestly, can a 8 year old black belt, regardless of which system, really handle a 6', 200lb adult that is trying to take their head off? I don't think so, unless they are very lucky. With this in mind, my favorite term when talking about TKD is "McKwanDo". Basically, just like McDonalds, they have served over 4 BILLION, there's one on just about every street corner, they pass out belts like fast food burgers, and the quality of their product is poor/sub-standard. As I said, this has been my experience, and doesn't apply to all dojangs and TKD participants I have seen...just the much larger majority of them.

Basically, we test one kata per belt, but there are a few extra non-test kata's recently introduced into our system. I've found those new kata to be excellent and well worth the time to practice. My students practice all katas at every class and are expected to practice on there own at home. Depending on who is in the class that evening (small classes), we will run through each kata 1-5 times.

I don't do breaks at all and don't believe in it. But if you want to, this is what would really impress me in a break. When I go to tournaments, there is always a breaking competition. It really bothers me to see some guy stand up there for 5 minutes..make 20 practice movements at the stationary board/brick...scream at the top of his lungs...sometimes stopping short of hitting the objects..then starting all over again. What would really impress me is this. Take any 3-5 people, hand them a board or two and tell them.."Hold it any way that you want to hold it...high, low..whatever." Then walk over the the judges, tell them that you have no idea how these people are going to position the objects, but you will attempt to break them as fast as possible (no practice or warmup shots) just as you would hit a real person if that object was them. You don't get to practice your distance in a fight, do you? Then get out there, look at where they are..and as fast as you can, whatever technique you chose to use..break those dang boards! Now...THAT would impress me! And to be honest, board breaking really doesn't impress me at all! Probably the best break I ever saw, and it impressed me, was Gus Fandonola, a Hung Gar instructor, do a one finger break of a board. He jammed the heck out of his index finger, but he broke the board! Afterwards, he came up to me and said "Paul, If I ever try that again, stop me!" lol Good luck!

Personally, I think anybody that breaks boards or bricks with their heads, needs to have their heads examined anyway!

The system I practice is very defensive, and counter-strike oriented by nature, which suits my personal beliefs perfectly, so as a general rule, we don't strike first in a situation. However (there's always however's aren't there? lol), what I teach my people is that if the person confronting you is much larger or stronger than you, or if you are faced with more than one aggressor, or if he has a weapon... and an opening is present, I wouldn't hesitate to make the first strike...and make it a good one! Trying to put that person down as quickly and decisively as possible.

I wish I had actual statistics to back this up, but I don't think the majority of crimes involving guns are by people that plan on anymore than the intimidation factor of displaying that gun. If your average "mugger" comes up to you empty handed and asks for our wallet..he usually won't get it, so he uses a gun to intimidate you. Sure would work well with me! lol I agree that yes, you, as the victim, have to assume the assailant will use the weapon, and that is what the BG is hoping for.

Oops...I should have read ALL the posts...sorry! How about Shoju for a name? Or Go-Kan? Goju-Kan ShojuGoKan???

I agree. Without knowing anything about your system, it's really quite impossible to help you. I'd suggest finding a person that speaks and write fluent Japanese to help you with a name and the kanji for it. I'd suggest having a few names already picked out, and I don't see where we can help you with that without more information. I've designed 2 different patches over the years with help from more artistic stuents in my class. They turned out pretty good, but have been discarded because of new affiliations with associations I belong to.

Just a quick "resume" of my background so you can get an idea of the extent of my knowledge on thsi subject. I have ALWAYS practiced my chosen system with an attitude towards self-defense, not sport. I feel it is a very realistic system and doesn't waste time with * techniques. I have been involved in this art for 29+ years now, and I'm 6'6" tall and weigh about 240lbs. So, I'm not a little guy with a little bit of training, and I have some pretty good experience in real self-defense situations. With that said, and reading the context of the author's thread in the given situation, I would respond by giving the BG my wallet, laying on the ground when told to do so, and watch him drive away with my co-worker (that's a key part of my answer to this). I would then report any information I had to the police as soon as possible and hope for the best. Am I a coward for not trying to stop the BG from taking my co-worker? No, I think "smart" would be a better term. I work a lot in my class with defenses against weapons, specifically knife and gun encounters. If the BG is farther than easy arms reach from you with a gun, odds are that you will get shot before you can effectively defend against it. However, if he's within close proximity..enough so that you can reach the firearm without having to move your entire body forward..then POSSIBLY you might be able to do something about it. However, in the given situation, the BG is asking for your wallet..give it to him! He then tells you to lie face down in the street..OK, I'll do that rather than risk my co-workers or my life. But after I'm face down in the street, he decides to take my co-worker..you just aren't in a position to do a dang thing about it I'm afraid, and trying to stand up and defend her is just plain...a bad idea! You could get yourself shot and killed! Sure, I will, and have, used my martial arts experience to protect loved ones, and more total strangers, but in the given scenerio, my life, and what the loss of my life would mean to my loved ones, is more important than the potential rape or murder of a co-worker....whether or not I liked her. If you change that scenerio to my wife, fiancee, daughter or another loved one..then yes, I would react differently. Just a quick comment also to the post about putting your finger behind the trigger to prevent firing the pistol...HA HA HA! Take a pistol like that (unloaded of course) and try that a few hundred times. You can't do it unless the guy holding the gun is cooperating quite a bit and letting you get away with it. That goes also for many instructors that say "kick the gun out of his hands"..like in the movies. The BG would have to be nearly totally inept for that to work, and your accuracy would have to be PERFECT! I have an old .22 cal revolver that I use frequently in class. The "BG" is ready for us to move when we work on the techniques, and everybody in class is an observer to tell if where the gun is pointing when the hammer falls. If done properly, and the situation is right..it is possible to keep from getting shot...possible even where the gun won't discharge. Distance from you to the gun is CRITICAL, as is positioning of your hands before you attempt the techniques. The type of gun is also a factor..does it have a hammer that needs to fall for instance? Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.

Oh heck, creating your own system is easy! 1. Grab any martial arts magazine on the newstand and order a gi (that's a uniform), preferably black as that's cooler, and a black belt. You can order black belts with stripes already on them. I would recommend, since you're just starting out, no more than 7 stripes..and you can progress to 10 by aqdding one more per year. That should be an acceptable rate I would think for self-promotion. Cost for the uniform/belt will be around $50-60 or so I think. Don't forget to also order as many patches as you can to adorn the gi, inclding the sides of the pant legs. A good general rule of thumb is the more patches you can put on a gi, the better and more experienced you will look to new students. 2. You probably should consider also getting as many video tapes as possible, and maybe watching some legitimate classes and taking notes of them, so you actually have something to teach people when you're ready to start classes. 3. Open a dojo. Take out a huge loan and get the most traffic visible store you can afford. You need big, splashy signs out front with the name of your system/style on it. Remember, the bigger and flashier the better if you want to draw in new students. Charge at least $100/month, because a higher cost means better product in most peoples minds. 4. Don't forget to name your system. Something like Bullcrappieryu...or Fooldya Kenpo. You also want to make up good, plausable storys and linages on your system, because somebody might ask you "Where does this system come from?", and they expect an answer. Try "I learned it from an old Chinese guy that used to work at the local laundry down the street, but he died a couple of years ago (then they can't trace it back to him and ask embarassing questions). You were his only student, and he was the Supreme Master of his little known system. That's always a good dodge and most people will accept it. Don't forget to make up a good name for the guy. Lee is always a good last name for a martial arts master. 5. Another good idea is to have a good "escape plan". You need to consider what would happen if a guy with 3-6 months of boxing, or maybe a year of real martial arts experience comes into your dojo and wants to train. Of course, because you really don't know much, you can't let the guy in because the first time you spar, they're going to probably wipe the floor with you and make you look stupid to the other students..so you need to come up with a good way of not letting the person into your class without opening yourself up to a lawsuit, or a challenge match. Something like..."I'm sorry, the class if full right now..let me put your name on our waiting list" should suffice. I'm sure others will come up with other ideas, but that should give you something to think about and get you started on the right path to starting your own system and making it work. Good luck...and please, keep us posted as to how you're progressing.

"Sophisticated Basics, finding hidden moves in basic techniques or forms applications that can enhance their effectiveness." as I'm sure you know bud, is called bunkai in Okinawan/Japanese martial arts. I find it one of the more fascinating things about the art that I study. As for the specific technique Mr. Tatum was demonstrating...yeah, we do that too. It's an excellent and bversatile technique that gives you many different avenues of attack. Low kicks, lots of hand techniques, speed....same as we do. I'm pretty familiar with AK, but have always felt it was a far to complicated system. or rather, more complicated than it needs to be. But then, that's just me. We work on the K.I.S.S. system...Keep It Simple Stupid.