Shorinryu Sensei

You don't generally see huge differances between one belt rank and the next usually, but there should, as you progress, be subtle refining of technique, control, power, etc. Between the dan ranks there can be differances that would only be apparent to someone familiar with tht particular system. To give you an example from my own experience, I am ranked as a sandan and my senior student is a nidan. I have been involved in the arts for nearly 30 years, and he has been my student for about 12 or so. He knows just about everything I know and can teach him, but there are differances in movement, crispness of technique, reactions and control that a lot of people wouldn't see without knowledge of the system we practice. He's very good, 13 years my junior, physically stronger and in some ways faster (mostly kicking)...but he's only defeated me once in light, medium or full contact sparring. Why? Well, partly because I'm a sneaky old bastard I guess , and partly because my body reacts better than his does at this point and more naturally. If you were to watch us in class, you would probably see little differance between our techniques, but where you'll see it the most is in sparring/kumite.

Nope, they're not. Shorei-ryu...I think anyway...is an offshoot of shorinryu. Feel free to correct me somebody?

I've only trained in one system for nearly 30 years now. From other martial arts that I've seen over the year, the only other one I would consider to enhance what I already know would be jujitsu for the ground grappling. We do ground work already, but I would say that it is the weakest area of the system in my opinion.

Now there's good advice!

As others have stated already, don't wear your uniform to/from your workout. All it does is bring attention to yourself and could possibly be perceived as a challenge to others. If you have to wear your gi for some reason, take the jacket and belt off and put them in a gym bag or backpack and wear a t-shirt to/from the dojo. Just a quick side note, I had a student years ago that would often go to the local bar after class wearing his complete uniform, brown belt and all. I asked him nicely the first time to please quit doing that, as it reflected poorly on my dojo and myself I felt. Hew said OK, then did it again the next week (I had people calling me and telling me they saw him that way). I seldom do this, but I "ordered" him to cease and dissist doing this. He didn't, so I kicked him out of my class. If you live in this sort of neighborhood, it is pure stupidity to be wearing your gi and walking through there. I would think that would be obvious. Unless you are VERY good and have been involved in the MA's for quite a while, I would NOT recommend standing your ground and trying to fight 4-5 people either. 4-10 of them? Again, leave the gi in a bag, and start finding a different way to get home. Get a ride, or take a different route...even if you have to walks many blocks out of your way. I think there's very few people in this world that could have any hope of successfully defending themselves against 8+ people realistically. To try to fight this number of people is suicide. Yes, it's OK in the power department. However, it is difficult to be accurate with the technique. If you miss, it can throw you off balance. If you hit, it can also throw you off balance. It works GREAT in the movies though! If you are being threatened by thugs as you walk home, you are obviously bringing on the situation yourself and the consequences will be your fault for not being aware of your situation and the obvious reasons that you are in the situation in the first place. Fighting is not the answer against the odds you are describing. Using your brain instead of your brawn is!

Oh, well sure, I guess anybody can learn to swing the nunchaku at somebody's head and split it open I guess (no sarcasm intended), so I guess yes, you can take a flashy technique and turn it into a deadly one. I stand corrected. As just about anybody that reads much on this forum will tell you, I'm absolutly DEATH on flashy and ineffective techniques, whether it be with, or without weapons. Flash, without substance (effectiveness) is pure, unadulterated garbage IMHO and is an embarassment, and a degradation (IMHO) to the martial arts in general. I wouldn't even want to guess how many tournaments I've been the center referee at where a black belt will come up and give me his best during a weapons form, and it is absolutly the biggest pile of dung you've ever seen in your life! And people that are "self-taught", especially with the nunchauku, are the worst IMHO. From what I've experienced over the years , they would be better served by using a twirling baton rather than a nunchauku for all the good their technique would do them in a fight. If my opinion offends you, I apoligise. I'm from the old school and old train of thought of the MA's, where the MA's are designed for one thing only. Effectiveness! I do not, nor will I ever, teach techniques that are a waste of time and effort becuase they are ineffective. If one of my students wants to get flashy, I send them to a gymnastics school, or one of several dojo's/dojang's in my area that do that sort of thing. Do I sound like a hard-*? Well, maybe...and like I said earlier, I've only promoted 4 people so far to black belt...but I can assure you, they were excellent martial artists, and good people. I demand a certain amount of expertise from my people, as I do myself. They know this also, and the people I have in my small class are dedicated, loyal, and strive to be the best martial artists that they can be. Oh geeze...here I go again getting on my soapbox! Sorry people...but sometimes you just have to vent these things or you'll explode ...know what I mean?

Personally, I teach nunchaku "grappling" (I assume you mean trapping and locks?) techniques and would be glad to teach you also if you'd like. You just have to join my class, train hard and when you get your black belt (about 3 years of serious training), I will start teaching you those sorts of things. Oh, by the way, in the 26 years I have been teaching classes, I've only promoted 4 (hopefully 5 by the end of the year) people to black belt...so you'd better be prepared to work your buns off! lol And just a comment on your "adapting my flashy stuff into deadly stuff"...it isn't going to happen bud without good, legitimate instruction by someone that knows what they're doing...for real! All I can say is ----->

It sounds like a real good way to hurt your wrists. I wouldn't do it, or have my students do it either.

No arguement from me bud. I'm just trying to stuir up some discussion here. When was the last time you heard of the BBB fining or doing anything against a McDojo that is obviously taking people's $'s, but not giving anything of value? (subjective idea, I know). Granted, it's none of my business..but you and I know delta1 that is is pure *. Well, we would assume that yes, the 10 yr old should be able to handle himself against another 10 yr old. But turn that around, and I know a couple of adult TKD BB's that have gotten their butts handed to them by average, to slightly above average (a little boxing background) individuals. That shouldn't, IMHO, be happening. Of course not. Maybe I'm having flashbacks to the late '60's tonight? Hey bud, I was just trying to spark some discussion. Lower those hackles a bit will ya? [/b]

...that is the question. As most of us know, the martial arts are swarming with Mcdojo's, young children with black belts, bogus "Masters", and just plain rip-off dojo's. So my question for you is this. Do you think that the government, state or federal, should set up a commission of sorts, and regulate the martial arts to insure consistency, legitimacy and to protect the general public from being ripped off? As I see it, there are pro's and con's to both sides of the argument. Personally, when I see a McDojo, I wish there was a governing body, similar to the Better Business Bureau, that would have the power to close a business for bad practices, or the power to impose fines on them. I also absolutely hate to see young children (I've seen as young as 7 years of age) being promoted to black belt. Regardless of what they call it (Jr. Black Belt for example)...it's still a black belt, and I feel it cheapens all other legitimate black belts that truly have the skills and knowledge to wear the belt. Everybody's concept of what a black belt means is different of course, and mine is of the traditional view, where a black belt shoudl be able to teach a class to adults of children, and should also be able to hand your average street confrontation efficiently and effectively. Can anybody really think a 10 year old black belt can handle any average adult man in a fight? I don't think so. But then again, who would we put on the commission to govern the martial arts? Who has the wisdom, knowledge and non-partisonship to choose someone not in their own system to be on the panel? Would I want a TKD sensei to make decisions for my school? A Aikido sytlist? Parker Kempo? I am just trying to open this up for some discussion...so let's have it people!

There used to be a TKD (self promoted) Grand Master in Great Falls, MT that a number of years ago promoted a 7 YEAR OLD to black belt. I hate to speak ill of the deceased, but the Grand Master(bater?) had a heart attack a couple of years later and died, and as far as I know, his association and school died with him. Sometimes, something bad can be something good for all. As for my address...I'd give it to you, but then everybody else on this forum would probably want to send me money too...and I would just hate like heck to have to do all that paperwork that would be involved in claiming it to the IRS.

My pleasure, and glad to be of help. No problem. I don't have a site either, but there are many shorinryu sites out there that offer good ideas of what the system is all about in the more advanced stages. Yep! As a general rule, we don't like to go to the ground, but we like to put the OTHER guy there real quickly! I don't know what schedule your sensei uses, but I personally teach joint locks (tuitte) (pronounced two-i-te) and manipulations of the joints fairly soon to people. Ask your sensei about it. Tell ya what. Send that TKD BB over to Montana and I'll convince him otherwise. Granted, blocking a kick with an arm...force against force..isn't a good idea. You need to know how to do it. Again, this depends on how your sensei teaches his class. In Shorinryu, we NEVER just use force to stop force. Maybe, at your stage (yellow belt), you will learn that, but you will learn differently later on. Hang in there..it gets lots and lots more ineteresting! lol Shorinryu teaches you well how to defend against one person, or 10 (not recommended to stand and fight 10 however! lol) It also teaches defense, which is basically nearly the same type of techniques, against weapons. Train hard, listen to your sensei, send me $50 for the advice, eat your veggies and treat ladies with respect, and you'll go far in life. [/b]

What you need to realize here is that you're dealing with a typical school yard bully. nothing more, nothing less. he is physically larger than most, which is typical of a bully, and because he's insecure with himself, he feels he needs to bully people to get attention, and to be better than others. My best suggestion at this point is to go up to him and give him a great, big HUG! OK..just kidding on that part. Ryan gry, you need to be a bigger man than this punk. He's a coward, a bully, and most likely an idiot. Avoid confrontations as much as you can, but not at the expense of your own safety. If he says "Meet me in the alley after school"..don't go there. You don't know what the situation will be, and he could be setting you up to get trounced by his friends. Or worse, he could come with weapons. It's not good to come to a knife fight, and not have a knife ya know. This is an idea I suggested for one of my students years ago. My student was having similar problems with the local school bully, so I suggested he ask the bully to come to class one night. I was actually amazed that the bully showed up about a week later, and I paired him with a girl that had been a student of mine for about a year, and I knew could handle him quite well and wouldn't be intimiudated by him. The student that was having the problems with him at school was lined up next to the bully with his partner, and I watched the bully watching him quite a bit. Long story short, my student didn't have any problems with the bully again from that point on. There was no fight, and I think that the bully realized that he was going to get a severe butt-whompin' if he continued to press the issue...so he dropped it.

Ah..we get to some good info now. At 16, and no offense meant here, you, like most people in America, want to know it all..RIGHT NOW! I've raised two sons myself, and have been teaching Shorinryu since 1978, plus used to be a school teacher, so I understand where you're coming from now. Shorinryu is an EXCELLENT system for self-defense purposes. If that's what you want from a martial art, I'd suggest staying with it. BJJ is great if you have to go to the ground, but not so good if you have to fight more than one person at a time. MT is also a good fighting art, but again (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here), not designed to fight more than one person at a time. I'd like to address this. How does a TKD black belt, who I assume isn't taking karate (specifically Shorinryu) themselves, know what they teach you in Shorinryu? And believe me, you don't want to block a kick at the knee, as you won't stop it there. Dodging it is the preferable method, (are you learnign body shifting or change of body movements yet?) but that's not always possible, so yes, sometimes you have to block it. And no, you won't break your arm (hand perhaps though) blocking a kick if you do it properly..that's why you drill on your blocks over and over again..so you do them properly if you need to. Yes, they do have powerful kicks. However, generally with years of toughing up exercises that they do, these can leave you crippled later in life. At 16 now, you aren't looking down the road at the consequeces of your actions when you get to the ripe old age of 51 like I am now. Talk to your Shorinryu sensei about kotoate (pronounced coat-oh-ah-te) drills..which are the Shorinryu body toughening techniques. Some sensei do them, some don't. I do and have so for nearly 30 years with no ill effects or loss of abilities. {quote]sayockali: i want to become a master at fighting with a knife and stick (seperatly), i just love the knife, and this art seems like the best knife art for me. I'm not familiar with this system. Perhaps others that are can comment. Knowledge of the knife would be good. First of all, you won't get sued defending yourself...IF you don't overdue it! This is the self-defense law in Montana, and it is similar in every state in the USA. 45-3-102. Use of force in defense of person. A person is justified in the use of force or threat to use force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or another against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, he is justified in the use of force likely to cause death or serious bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or serious bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony. I hope this helps.

You're taking Shorinryu, and you feel it won't work in a real fight? Well, I don't know who your sensei is in it, or what he's teaching you of course, but believe me...if you're REALLY learning true Shorinryu...take my word for it...it works, and it works VERY well against one, or multiple attackers. Personally, I've been involved in Shorinryu for nearly 30 years and have to use what it has taught me on numerous occassions, including about 2 weeks ago. It hasn't failed me yet (not even faltered a bit), nor do I think that it ever will. Does your Shorinryu sensei have a website that I can take a look at and possibly see what he's doing? Like any dojo, there are good sensei, and not so good sensei. Not that I am calling yours not so good, but it's possible that his training may be lacking in some areas. What are you learning, or not learning, that you don't think will work in a real confrontation? How long have you been involved in it?

Unfortunately no, I don't have any nursing home contacts. Good idea though, so I'll keep my ears open.

I work with numerous kobudo weapons and like them all pretty much the same (except the nunchauku...ARGH!), but I would have to say that the cane is my favoite, and I think the most versatile. Unfortunately, mine broke a few months ago and I've been cruising the thrift stores looking for a suitable replacement. Yeah, I know there are numerous places on the net to buy them so don't post any links please. I'm just looking for a good, old second hand cane tht needs a new home.

A lady-friend of mine's son lives there and she wanted to go out for a visit....so I went with her. About the highlight of the trip was two days of "crabbing"....mmmnmm...tasty!

I've been a judge/referree at tournaments since 1980 and I have no problem with "flashy" techniques, as long as they have a purpose other than for show. Flips, splits, weird faces (wish I had a camera for some of them) etc. are not rewarded with good scores in my opinion. I, as a kata judge, look for power, precision, good technique/balance. timing and control. regardless of the type of kata they do, or the system they practice. I have seen countless times, competitors that will throw a high, flashy kick during a kata, that has no more power behind it than if you were slapped in the face by a 9 year old girl. When I see that sort of technique, especially out of black belts ranked as high as 7th Dan's, I will deduct one whole point out of a possible 10 because they are doing something that would be useless in a fight. Now, if they did that same techniqe with good power behind it...fine, I have no problems with that. The same goes for weapons competitors, especially the nunhauku. Holding the weapon high on the stick gives you easier handling properties and ability to do much flashier techniques, but the power is DRASTICALLY reduced by doing so. To the point that they are handing a weapon capable of crushing/shattering bones, but by holding it high on the stick, they geneate only about the amount of power necessary to leave a bruise....period. I will give anybody doing that sort of technique a low score, regardless of how well they can twirl the weapon, and how flashy it is. I must be doing something right in this regard, as I am consistently asked to be the center judge during kata competitions in both empty hand and weapons. I have also been asked and given seminars in PROPER weapons handling and usage by numerous sensei that have competed and recieved low scores because of their previous technique during tournaments.

Wise words from granmasterchen. You have to keep in mind when thinking bears, that they are much faster and stronger than a man is...period. Yes, it's possible that a skilled (or lucky) man iwth a good katana could defeat a bear, but more likely than kill them, the man would most likely wound the bear and the bear would choose to leave the confrontation. However, this would depend a lot on what type of bear you're dealing with also. Any bear is normally non-aggressive and would prefer no human contact if possible. Worst case scenerio is if you surprise a bear, especially a sow with a cub...THEN you have problems. A bear will normally bluff charge you to try to scare you off, but attacks do happen. I live close to Glacier National Park in the middle of the Rocky Mountains, and there are an abundance of black and grizzly bears here. I have also had close contact with black and grizzly bears both in the wild, and through a business here that has various "wild" animals that qre used as "models" for various photographers to make calendars and posters. If you ever see a healthy, adult bear of any species, you can't help but be impressed, and a bit intimidated, by the natural strength and speed of these animals. Back to the katana vs bear idea. If you tried to make a downward strike to a bear, chances are that you won't stop it. Period. Hurt it, yes, but kill it..doubtful. Trying to take out a bears limb would be very difficult, as a bear doesn't stand up like a man does (contrary to what you see in the movies), and you'd have to be VERY close to the bear, well within its own striking distance, in order to reach a bears front leg. All I can say is, most likely, you'll just PO the bear if you cut it, and then you could become its lunch! When I go hiking/camping in the woods, I carry a .44mag on my hip, but those are illegal in the Park, so it's in my backpack and hopefully won't have to be used at all. The Park Rangers use a .44 mag themselves, and anything less than that is doubtful that it will have much of an effect on the animal if you need to use it to save your life.

I just drove from Montana to Tacoma, WA. a few weeks ago. It seems to me that I saw a TKD school somewhere along the way. Maybe try Nebraska?

I haven't seen any yet...but I'm still looking just in case I missed something .

I'd have to say the most interesting weapons kata I've seen was a guy doing a 20' bullwhip kata. He cracked that thing and in the gym with wood floors and cement walls, it sounded like a 30-06 going off! The entire place came to a standstill until he finished. I can't say it was good, but it was "different".

I had never heard that before WW...thanks for the info. Does that only pertain to the Chinese systems, or the Okinawan/Japanese systems as well?

I practice with a variety of weapons in kobudo, but my favorite would have to be the bo. But then again, there are nights that tonfa or sai just feel right, and the flow with them is almost magical! My least favorite is the nunchaku by far. I can work them pretty well enought I guess (non-flashy stuff), but I've never really liked them very much. To many bumps/bruises I suppose on the back of my head, shins, elbows, and once to the groin (learned a good lesson of what NOT to do that night! ) I also had a real nasty experience once with the kama, requiring 12 stitches to the bottom of my foot after class (not my smartest move that night). Weapons...a truly unique learning experience at times!