Shorinryu Sensei

What I was referring to with the dates was delta1's comment about moving into that area and teaching classes. To long ago....plus I HATE Great Falls!

Actually...back when he and I were still on good terms, I asked him about that. Nowhere on this certificate does it say anything about being "honorary". he told me it is the same exact certificate that he gives to his own black belts, and that technically, I could take it and go to any school in his association and present it to the "ruling" sensei, and he would accept it as a legitimate 3rd Dan BB in that system. I kidded him (you know me ) that maybe I'd start travelling around the country to visit his schools and walk in and tell the studetns..."OK, we're going to make just a few "minor" changes to what you're learning"...and start teaching them Shorinryu instead. Also keep in mind, this all happened back in 1986 or '87. Ancient history.

Let me see if I can put this in a way that you'll understrand from my own experience. I've been in instructor of the martial arts since September of 1978...long before your parents probably even met, let alone you were born. Duringthat trime, I have had many people come into my dojo that had prior experience in other arts, including TKD, TSD, Kempo, Kungfu, judo, etc. Ranks of these people were from still white belts, to 2nd degree black belts (TKD). Some of these people wanted to start out as other than white belts..but most accepted the fact that what I was going to teach them was different than what they had learned previously. For example, the 2nd degree black belt in TKD. He wanted to start out as a 1st degree...possibly he'd "settle" for a brown belt in my system, because he felt taht his 8 years of TKD was a sufficient base that he didn't need to know the basics of Shorinryu. I said OK...if you can do the basics like we do the basics (blocks, kicks, punches)..I'd go for that. We started out with the blocks. Each and every one of his blocks was wrong (as we do them), from the actual execution of the block, to the final placement of the arm. I showed him the reason we did our blocks the way that we do them...and he couldn't argue with me. Kicks..same thing. He wasn't chambering any of his kicks to the knee first..had absolutly no power behind any of them, and was jsut plain sloppy by my standards. His stances were way to wide for what we do...he couldn't step the way that we do...,and I could go on and on. You get the idea. This 2nd degree TKD black belt accepted that he didn't know even our most basic white belt level techniques, let alone any of our more advanced techniques...so why should I give him anything other than a white belt? Yes, he stayed in the class for about a year, and yes, he advanced faster than your average student during that year...as yo umay also. But what you're failing to unbderstand is that you want to skip the funbdamentals of a system and dive right in ot the "good stuff". It's good to want to do that, but not good to skip the fundamentals of a syste Now, if you already have a good foundation in TSD, yand already knowthe basics of it...the instructor shoudl see that and move you up accordingly. Maybe not in belt colors...but allowing you to progress quicker to the advanced techniques.

I'm not sure what you're asking here. Certainly, without quesiton, I would say that yes, his school was probably nearly a perfect example of a McDojo while he was alive. As I understand it through friends that live in that area, when he died, his school and followers folded and "died" also.

That's easy. Drugs, alcohol, and inheriting a bunch of $$$'s unexpectently and being able to let his TRUE personbality come out. That's what lost him all of his friends, most of the members of his "association", and the respect of his peer's. Gotta get off this thing and do SOMETHING productive today!

Well, other than the fact that he's been dead for 7-8 years now and his class and association went with him...not a bad idea! He went from basically the "top of the heap" in this state in regards to putting on good tournaments and being a nice guy...to falling down into the "lower than a rattlesnakes belly" catagory before he died. No one would attend his tournaments except his own students, or have anything to do with him. Long story as to why, but I also would have nothing to do with him the last few years before he died.

I found it interesting at the 1st seminar that I taught in his school, that at the end of the 2 hour session...that the majority wanted to do more. Some people had to leave, but most stayed for another hour and a half. Afterwards, I had a group approach me and ask if there was anybody in their area (I lived 240 miles away from where this seminar was taught) that taught this system. There isn't.

Thanks for that. He also wanted me to join his organization...The American Korean Karate Association (Now defunct I think), and I told him "Ray, I don't do Korean karate"..but he just wanted a mix in his group. I wasn't interested. I had taught his sizable class (70+ people) several times and given seminars that all of his students attended. His people ate up what I gave them and screamed for more. What he was teaching his students was very basic technique, with no practical defenses against the "grab" or weapons.

In hindsight, I wish I would have politely declined the "honor" he was giving me with that 3rd Dan certificate, but like I said, at the time he was a very good friend...and I was taken by surprise by it. I did tell him later when we were alone that I felt a bit insulted by his request for me to give him a certificate in return. I didn't realize that he was "rank collecting" and gathering rank from many different people besides me at the time.

Some people just don't like hearing the truth because it's not what they wanted to hear.

I voted "stomach", but actually it's lower than that at the lower abdomen. And for you guys that say "drop you hands and I'll kick you in the head"... I hope you are done having children or walking with a limp for the rest of your life.

The problem is...there's nothing that we can do about it, short of fire bombing their dojo's or walking in the door and challenging them to a fight. Neither prospect is realistic. Claiming false rank isn't a crime.

Well, I don't know if these gals are your type really. Both around 5'7" or so...slim...cute...GREAT personalities..can't dance worth crap, but I'll fix that given time. One has hair down to her rear...other has hair about 1" long. Share? With you? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OK, I know about where you're at. I should have thought about this when I went to Tacoma 2 months ago. Should have stopped by and said "Hi" or something. It's always nice to put a face to go along with letters on the screen. Especially when they're Member of the Month! I'd love to see that rainbow belt in person! I promise not to rub it in that I was Member of the YEAR last year! lol Got a whole 7 votes!

Ahhhh...I know that place! lol I just didn't know that it had a fancy name. Names are my biggest shortcoming. I know where things are and how to use them...but what the heck they're called? Beats me! lol I just tell my people..."Poke that with this"...it seems to work.

ACK! I darn near spit my coffee out all over my screen at that one! Meteor shower last night? Dang..and I missed it because I was dancing with two beautiful ladies instead! Only if they have Canation Irish Cream Creamer! I'm so used to that, I'll hardly drink coffee without it any more. You did say you were buying? At 9-9:30am??? Uh huh bud...WAY to early for this guy. I don't pop tops until at least noon as a rule. Wait a second...it's gotta be noon someplace in the world...right? By the way delta1...what city is close to you in central WA? Ever get over to Kalispell, MT?

Some instructors, such as myself, don't have white belts (or any other belt for that matter) do white belt techniques over and over again until they get promoted. I toss them into the middle of class (the 'ol sink or swim method) and they do whatever the entire class is doing that night. It might be pretty basic techniques..or rather advanced. Sure, they don't do well sometimes..but you'd be surprised at how fast people can catch on a lot of times. Anyway, look around your area. There might be something like this out there. As for wearing a higher belt when you start...don't count on it.

Yeah, I knew you weren't endorsing him or any of the others...just giving out options..which was GREAT! What the heck is a "triple warmer 17 shot"? I've never been to one of his seminars, but have talked to a few that have. Apparently his own students are real good about falling down and being "knocked out" when he does his stuff on them...but non-students of his don't always have the same reaction. I guess it depends on if you rely on his OK to get a promotion or not?

I can't help it. When I read this, I envisioned tommarker pulling out his Swiss Army knife..fumbling through the various blades... "Spoon? ..no...Nail file?...Maybe....bottle opener?...Nope..." It's early and I need more coffee...sorry.

Personally, I wouldn't give this guy a penny, whether or not his books/tapes were any good or not. The man has been making false claims for years that he can't provide any proof for, or has blatently been proven false. This hits close to home because he claims to have learned his deadly and secret tuite techniques from the late OSensei Soken Hohan, who is an important figure in my martial arts lineage. And no, tuite isn't a secret. There are no secrets in karate...but rather things that you haven't learned yet.

Who elected you head of the Redneck Police? Look...Kentucky Rednecks, Texas Redneck, Alabama Redneck...or New York Rednecks...an idiot is an idiot. Your logic of going out and drawing trouble to yourself is just plain idiocy and suicidal. Are you and your friends (or your instructor) going to start nightly bar-hopping wearing t-shirts that say Don't pick on the innocent..pick on me instead!"? These "rednecks" are all over the world, but are go by different names. A bully is just that...a bully. Unless there's a rule about the fewer the teeth, the more of a redneck you are? If you and your friends want to jump in and protect the innocent..go for it. I've done that a few dozen times myself, but looking for trouble isn't to bright because you will find it. As good as your instructor is, there's always somebody better out there. Plus, a beer bottle or chair to the back of the head when he isn't looking is a great equalizer.

Yep...never heard of the guy...it wasn't me...I DIDN'T DO IT!!!

Here's a link to Frank Hardgrove. Not the same Shorinryu I do...and not sure if this is where I've heard of him. http://www.usashorinryu.org/Dojos/showdojo.cfm?ID=SN001

Agreed! Personally, I don't train with real sharp weapons. I used to, but cut myself a few times, stabbed a hole in the ball of my right foot once (don't ask! ), and cut a few holes in my gi. Soooo...I stored my sharp weapons and opted for the exact same weapon in balance and feel...but not sharp. Trust me, I know when I make a mistake with them and would have cut myself or something else.

Yes, I understand that you have to have more "respect" for a knife than you do a hand of foot , but in the system I practice, the techniques are very close to the same that you'd use with, or without a weapon. Accuracy is more important with a bladed weapon of course. And who's Illustrisimo? I've never heard of him. Well, that's all nice to say, but if you'll notice under my name and system to the left, I live in Montana..specifically about 60 miles from Canada, and 70 miles from Idaho, and seminars of any sort are few and far between around here. Of any martial artists of note, the only one I can think of to come to this state (other than the had of my system) in the nearly 30 years I've been training, was Ed Parker about 2 years before he died. And yes, I did attend that seminar. I've taught a number of seminars myself at the request of other sensei, but you don't hear about many (if any) seminars in this area. We have a saying up here that goes something like this. "You can't get anywhere from here". It's pretty close to the truth. That could be true, but I think seeing a trained knife fighter would definitely help. Absolutely in agreement here!

Heck Mu Ryuk, I can name you 5 dojo's that I personally know of, some local, some around the state, where the black belts are handed out like confetti, and their skill levels, from what I've seen, are incredibly poor IMHO. They're all over the place, and I'm sure just about any person on this forum that's been in the arts long enough can tell you the same thing. McDojo's abound in this land, and they're growing in numbers every year.