Shorinryu Sensei

Kalispell actually. And that's because we changed the normal Cowboy and Indian to Cowboy and Terrorist over this way.

Actually, I'm waiting now for my security cleance to go through (2 more weeks or so), and hopefully get a job at the local airport working for the TSA (Transportation Safety Administration)...a part of Homeland Security. One of the parts of the job is to look for weapons...so I'm sure I"ll be taught what is legal to carry, and what isn't.

I've been carrying a kubotan keyring for over 20 years and have used it a few times for self-defense or restraint while working security or as a bouncer. As tommarker said, I also prefer the striking over the leverage techniques, although I have used those also..but they are harder to apply. Striking specific pouibnts, such as under the jawbone or in the lower throat are quite effective. A pen or similar object works just as well for that application also, but a pen doesn't have the body strength to do many joint locks. I haven't flown since 9/11, and the kubotan keyring that I use mostly (I have 3 of them) is made of wood. I don't know if they'd let me on a plane with it or not.

Talking to you sensei about the "issues" you are having with class can be very hard depending on what sort of a person he/she is. All I can suggest is be respectful and as non-critical of his teaching as possible. I see you are doing Shotokan. I'm wondering if this sort of thing is common in that system, as the local Shotokan dojo here is similar from what I've seen. They do no grabbing techniques, the sparring that I've seen is ridgid, to formal and not very realistic. No weapons are taught, and no defense against weapons. Personally, if you don't get any results from your talk with your sensei, obviously you're not satisfied with what you're doing...I'd leave and find a dojo more to your liking.

I'm in agreement with this. Shorinryu is a very effective, and realistic martial art that trains you in all aspects..while being a traditional martial art. The techniques, depending on how the sensei teaches, are relatively simple, non-flashy, effective and realistic. As for the realistic combat arts taht delta1 mentioned..I have no experience with them, so I really can't comment on them. When I was in the army...back in '72-74 during the Vietnam war, the hand to hand combat training I had was basically a joke. At the time I thought it was great, but a few years later I started my study of Shorinryu, and it was rather apparent that the training I had in the Army was just plan worthless IMHO. One day total is all, and how much of that do you think you'd remember if you really needed it? Zippo! I'm sure Navy Seal, Green Beret, Delta, etrc. training is much better...or I sure hope so anyway!

I'll try to keep this short and sweet (yeah, right!). Back in 1990, I went to Minnesota to train with a 6th Dan for a week, as I had been on my own for the past 9 years without anyone to my knowledge that i could turn to for guidance and training. While there, this 6th Dan promoted me to my nidan. When I got back home I contacted the head of our association in this country (in Texas) and he said that the 6th Dan had advised him of my promotion, but he suggested that I either come down to Texas to test with him, or to Seattle to test before the visiting head of our system in a few months. I asked him why, having successfully tested under a legitimate, and well respected 6th Dan in our system, did I have to travel yet again to test under him (a 7th Dan), or the head of our system? He didn't have a good answer to that question, just said that he wanted to verify it. So, a few months later, I went to Seattle and tested before the head of the system....and passed for a 2nd time. A week or so later, I contacted the 7th Dan in Texas to find out what the fee's were for the test, and he told me I had to come to Texas to test under him. Now..since when can't a 6th Dan, or the 9th Dan head of the whole friggin' system, not promote someone to Nidan without this Texas guy's OK? Long story short (believe me, I'm leaving out some stuff...but you get the idea), I..and the 6th Dan in Minnesota, quit the association because of this crap. I understand that about a year later, the 7th Dan was "relieved" of his position as head of the American association because of this thing with me, and many other things he'd done. Up until about 2 years ago, I had been on my own again. I am now a member of a good, non-political association that I'm quite happy with.

I totally agree with Rich67. If you're looking just to improve your fighting abilities because you love to get into fights, personally as an instructor, I wouldn't let you in my door. That's not what the arts are about. Like Danial said to Mr. Miagi in the Karate Kid movie..."I learn karate NOT to have to fight."...or something like that. I hated those movies, but liked much of the philosophy behind them.

Interesting...and I've heard this before from others. They don't teach you the "correct" way until you get your black belt? Why? We teach the correct way from Day 1 of training.

Well, I'm glad we're all in agreement on this point then! Sorry bud...you expect me to pass up such a good opportunity as that one? ..I marked B & C. I will show my students the bunkai of a kata technique, usually giving them 2-3 examples of what it can be used for, then give them a few minutes with a partner to see what else they can come up with. It's really amazing that after all these years, some lower ranked student will find something now and then that I hadn't thought of. Just when you think you knew it all, huh?

Well, I don't know how "crazy" this is, but it was very a very interesting experience for me. Back in the late 70's through the late 90's, I was heavily into judging and ref'ing point tournaments in this state. I still do now and then, but not to the same extent. Anyway, despite this fact, I had never actually competed in a tournament..just worked at them. In 1989, I was going to take about 8 students to a big tournament (we look at them as a fun experience, not required) and on the 4 hour drive to it, my students talked me into entering the competition...not just working it. It wasn't an easy thing for me to contemplate, as I'm not a competitive person by nature, and to think about competing against these many friends of mine that were serious competitors and attend dozens of tournaments/year, I figured I'd get creamed and be out of the running rather quickly. Another factor that I worried about was the fact that I was still recovering from a torn ACL injury about 6 months previously, and I had done practically no sparring or forms during that time to let that heal completely. Soooooo..upon arriving at the tournament, many of my fellow black belts that I had been working with for the past 10 years or so always asked me if I was going to compete this time, and my normal (and by now, expected) answer was "No, just judging/ref'ing."..so they were surprised that I said "Yes, actually I am this time. Kata and sparring." At this tournament, the black belts compete first so they are "fresh" and not tired from judging/ref'ing all day and we lined up to bow in for the kata competition. I was nervous as hell! The center judge was Sue Phillips...a TKD sensei that I'd known for years, and I had asked her to PLEASE not call me first because I was so nervous! When she drew the first name out of the hat (well, shoe box actually), she started laughing and looked right at me. Oh hell...I WAS FIRST! I took a deep breath, approached the judges..announced my little intro and was given permission to start. Keep in mind, there were 5 judges here that were my firends, and yet not a one of them had ever seen me do a kata before. For all they knew, I was really BAD! Hell, for all I knew..I was too! I stepped back, took a deep breath...bowed to the judges, and performed Chinto for them. I really remember very little about it, and when the judges scored me, I was so busy feeling relieved, that I forgot to look at what there scores were! I sat down..shook hands with a few of my friends that were waiting to compete next, and watched everybody else compete in turn. I was done...I didn't fall on my face...and I felt that I did my best, so I was happy about that! At the end of the kata competition, the scores were added up...we lined up awaiting the results...3rd place was called...not me....then 2nd place...and they said my name! I was really shocked that I had beaten so many (15 or so) other competitors that I knew did such a great job! OK..on with the story (bored yet?) ...next came sparring. Single elimination...meaning you lose one match, your done. Again, I asked Sue Phillips to please not call my name first. Guess what? First out of the box...me against some 3rd Dan TKD guy from Oregon that I'd never seen before. OH CRAP! Well, I got up there wearing my gloves, cup, foot gear and mouth piece. One thing to keep in mind here people, is that I rarely wear a groin cup (Yeah, not real smart sometimes), and have NEVER had foot pads on my feet or a mouthpiece in my mouth before. I was uncomfortable and it was awkward feeling. This TKD guy and I squared off, and at the end of the two minute period, I beat him by a score of 4-1. Next up was another 3rd Dan TKD guy from Ohio that I had never seen before also. This was a really good match, because he was tall also and I could tell he wanted really badly to kick me in the head. The score was 3-3 I think, when time ran out..so the winner would be decided by sudden death. The first point won! We got on our marks and I got into a really wide and low stance from what I normally do. The guy side stepped in and launched a kick to my head (that's what I wanted him to do ) and I dropped to the floor and launched a side kick at this groin...PERFECT! Oh man..was this guy PO'd!!! But I won! My 3rd match was against Jan Marcus (don't let the name fool you..he's a guy) who is about 5'7" tall, nearly round..and a dang good, serious and great competitor. He does a mixture of kung fu systems and is quite good. Jan and I have been friends for a long time and we both went into the fight with smiles on our facres and cracking wise cracks at each other. Keep in mind also that all of the ref's (5 of them total) are our friends. As we circled and "felt each other out", we both were cracking comments at each other like "If you win, you buy the beer tonight" and such. We had all of the ref's and people within ear shot laughing at us because we were having fun in that ring. We clashed a bunch of times. Jan scored on me..I scored on him. A few times one of us scored and knew it, but the judges didn't see it..so we just smiled and kept on fighting. At the end, we were tied 4-4 when time ran out. Sudden death again! ARGH! We lined up...Sue said "FIGHT!" and Jan lunge punched at my gut. I blocked, but it got in just enough. I was out! At the end of the sparring competition, I had no idea where I was sitting in relation to a trophy..and to tell the truth, I didn't care. I had sparred with my peers, done well I thought, and gained new respect for each other. When we lined up to award the trophies. I was given 3rd place. At this point, I told my friends that that was good...and I retired from competition. It's just not "my thing". At the end of the tournament the promoter awards an Outstanding judge/referee plaque that is voted on by all of the other judges/ref's, and I was given this. An honor, to be sure. Also, the judges/ref's vote on who the outstanding competitor of the tournament was. This isn't necessarily based on who won the most, but that is a factor. Attitude plays a big role also. I was also awarded that plaque. So...my first (and only) tournament as a competitor, I walked out with 4 trophies/plaques. It was a good day, but not one i will be repeating.

You know, way back in 1978 I was in a similar situationb as you're facing right now. Although the head of the system I practice isn't nearly as well known as Sensei Yamashita is, he was my sensei's instructor from Okinawa and we had heard countless tales of how good he was. I was a 2rd brown belt, just before black at the time. It was funny really, half of the class quit coming to practice when Sensei Kuda arrived because they were worried about what he would think of them. Sensei Kuda was there for three weeks of intense workouts and fantastic training. It was an experience I will never forget...and also, Sensei Kuda promoted me to my shodan at that time. I've never met Sensei Yamashita, but I'd be willing to be that he's just like everybody else..and will be very nice, understanding, and extremely informative. After the first day, I'll bet you'll relax and enjoy the experience. Actually, I'm rather jealous! I'd like to meet the man myself and train with him. We do a different branch of the same system.

Absolutly on the first part. As for a bad name..depends on the school. Mixed martial arts is a prime example. Many (most?) teach exclusively fighting techniques and little or no philosophy or tradition. This is OK if that's what you want out of an "art", but some can give the rest of us a bad name because they are training people to fight...not how to get out of a fight without fighting. As I said, not all do this of course, but I think many do. There is a school locally..a "traditional" school of Chinese origins, that teaches purely aggressive techniques and used to (doesn't any more) encourage its students to get into fights to hone their skills. I took me years of teaching classes in this area to get people to realize that they are an exception, not the norm in regards to the martial arts.

Not to get off the subject here (to late!), but I think I missed the news story on this one. Who are you talking about is "the greatest master of all time"?

I know exactly what youi mean. Some competitors are very polite and humble at tournaments, and respect their opponents and accept victory..or defeat..with grace. Others, like you say, are physically, and sometimes verbally, very un-humble about it. In my experience, it seems to depend on the particular system, and sometimes the individual school in how they behave. I've noticed (and not slamming here, just an observation) that Ed parker Kempo people tend to be good sports and bow/shake hands, but when they get, or think they get, a point they are quick to raise their hands and "dance" a bit. I believe this is taught to them to try to "nudge" the judges into seeing their point as opposed to their opponents in the advent of a "clash" where it's possible either could have gotten a point. I've given official warnings, and even disquaified competitors out of competition for bad attitudes (always warned at least twice before this happens), flagrant "I kicked your a$$!" attitudes, and general disrespect. Once, kid got disqualified because his parents were jerks in the audience...even after I stopped the ring action and went up into the stands to talk to them and give THEM the warning that if they didn't cease and dissist, I would diqualify their son. Well, they didn't..and I did disqualify their son. Boy, were they po'd! People need to realize that tournaments are for fun...period! They shouldn't be taken very seriously, and you need to aproach them with a "Lets have some fun and enjoy the experience" attitude.

Personally, I wouldn't double test one of my students. The way that I test them is when they are ready, they test. I determine when that is...not them, so when I feel they are at that stage for their next test, they test. With that method, you can't really skip belts or double test.

Good information there foreveryoung001. A few added thoughts. In the tournaments I judge/referee, head kicks are allowed, but only get one point. Also, the groin is a target..so if you're not used to protecting that, be aware. As foreveryoung001 said, they should go over the rules before the tournament starts. If you're not clear on anything..don't be afraid to approach a judge when he's not busy and ask questions. Another thing I think is important, is if you're entered in sparring, watch people spar before it's your turn to do so. You'll get a feel for what you're up against, it will mentally prepare you, and you'll get to see what is working, and what isn't. Stick to the basics. Don't think "I'll dazzle them with my jump spining 360 kick with a full twist and nail him"..and you'll probably fall on your face. Roundhouse kicks are quick and relatively safe techniques to use often, but you need to mix it up a lot. I've always had a very good, and fast backfist which I can put exactly where I want it to go. If you have a fast one (lots and lots of practice), I'd use that a lot also. Be very respectful of the judges, score keepers and your fellow competitors. Avoid growling at them, arguing, making faces..that sort of thing. It will get you nowhere except possible disqualified. I've kicked people out of tournaments just on their attitude, and have never had a problem from a promoter for doing so. Also, don't get cocky and jump around pounding your chest if you score a point, or win a match. Bow humbly to your opponent..win or lose, and I would suggest thanking the referee's and judges when you are finished...again, whether you win or lose. Keep your guard up at all times even if you know you, or your opponent socred. Ref's sometiems miss, or don't think a technique is good enough for a point, and both people wil lback off wiating for the ref's..and they tell you to "FIGHT!" You can lose a point real fast that way. It's entirely possible that judges might miss pionts scored by you or your opponent. It's a fact of tournament life, and the worst possible thing you can do is to argue with a ref/judge. You won't win that argument, and it will not make you popular with the judges. Being a "good sport" is very well recieved by judges/ref's. Touch gloves or shake hands (if that's permitted) with your opponent before, and after the match. If your opponent scores a point on you, acknowledge it to him with a nod, or touch gloves before the action starts again. If you hurt your opponent...accidently of course ... kneel down immediately with your back to him. Never, ever gloat! God, how I hate competitors that do that! I hope that helps...and good luck!

Ahhhh..now here's a topic that's sure to get a lot of action! Keeping in mind that some systems are more "acrobatic" than others, or have a much higher level of emphasis on "sport" than other systems do, I think the level you achieve (not necessarily the belt level, but referring to skill level) in the arts depends on what art you are practicing. For example, TKD, with it's flying, acrobatic techniques and head kicks demands a higher level of physical fitness than most. You don't see to many 100+lb overweight people taking TKD...or at least. not that I've seen. On the other side of the coin, you have Shorinryu...or at least, the particular branch that I practice, where it's nice to be physically fit, but not required as much because we don't jump, flip or fly during the course of our training. Probably the biggest, most out of shape student I've ever had was Anthony W. Anthony was 6'4" tall, and tipped the scales at about 320lbs. Regardless of that, Anthony was a good student that worked hard every class, and when he quit, he had reached a mid-level kyu grade. My general philosophy is that karate...or the MA's in general..is for self-defense and should be available to the masses. It was designed for self-preservation, not sport..and that's how I teach it. Are we to say to Joe BigFellow that "Hey buddy, I'd like to take you inb as a student, but you won't be able to do it because you're to fat to do most of what I teach."? I tell new students that I don't teach physical fitness or weight loss in my dojo. I teach karate. Yes, as a result of their training they should improve both of those things, but that is not my focus. I'm here to teach them karate and all of the aspects associated with that training...and that's all. If they want better bodys, I tell them to go to a health club or gym.

I'd say you are prefectly correct. Especially the hand/knife block has many different methods of execution in different systems that I've seen...and like you said, most of them end up the same way. BRAVO for you in realizing this!

I would hate to have noone respond to your thread MJ, so here's SOMETHING at least! I've had a couple of student stay at my place for short periods (days to weeks), but not in the sense you're talking about. While they were here, we trained quite a bit and I showed them things that I hadn't really showed anybody else at that point. It was kind of nice actually.

Don't feel alone bud. I've been doing the same art for 30 years as of this January, and I'm constantly learning and discovering new things about it! It is an amazing journey full of discovery of "self". You're never finished, so just sit back and enjoy the ride! I know I do.

Um, I don't think that is a plausible explanation for the origin of the sai, as the sai were used before the invention of the automobile. Now I have heard one theory where the sai was supposed to be the pin connecting wooden carts or something, but I am of the opinion that the sai was of Chinese origin and always used as a weapon on Okinawa rather than being modified from some sort of everday implement. Metal was pretty expensive on Okinawa... I was going to comment on that also, but Shorin Ryuu beat me to it...as usual! Good news here! I have just re-established contact as of this morning, with one of my instructors from quite some time ago! This guy is the "real deal" and has a great background in this system. I'm looking forward to renewing our association and friendship. Sorry...off the topic (what's the topic again? ), but I just needed to share that with you guys.

I think that they need to do it the way that it's supposed to be done for the system they are testing for. Isn't that pretty obvious? Just in comparison, Shorinryu does their hand rising to the outside. It makes it considerable less likely trhat you'll break your own nose, or uppercut yourself under the chin! No kidding! I've seen people do it.

There is a Kung Fu San Saoo dojo here locally. Total emphasis is on pure aggression...ATTACK ATTACK!!!..and none at all on defense...per their 8th Dan instructor. Personally, I don't like it much and feel anybody with a good defense and counter fighting abilities would wipe the floor with them given a "fair" fight. Fair being defined as squared off with them and seeing it coming...not being blind sided or surprised. *edit after reading those 3 links* Checking out those 3 sites you linked...this is a quote from the 3rd site: "It is highly aggressive and offensive in nature. San Soo does not bother teaching “defensive” techniques. The San Soo fighter is trained to be in control under any circumstance." I had the opportunity to work with a 3rd Dan from the local school fotr about an hour after one of my normal classes was over. He was a silent observer during the class and did not identify himself as being from the local San Soo school until I talked to him after class. Since I had observed his instructors class many times over the years, and watched numerous demonstrations of theirs, I was fairly familer with their philosophy and methods of attacking. We talked nicely for a while about our different approaches to fighting, and neither could convice the other they were right...which is OK with me. I asked him if he wouldn't mind attacking me so that I could show him what I was trying to verbally describe to him. He was more than willing. Basically, I stood in front of him, feet about 1 1/2 feet apart with my hands facing him palm outwards. It is a very non-threatening stance that we use in the more advanced levels for self-defense purposes. I told him to attack when ready. He assumed a boxer-type stance..and lunged at me with a hard punch. I sidestepped (change of body) and nailed him lightly (pulled it) in the temple as he came in, then followed up with a nice (and knee safe) kick behind his knee that put him on the ground. Basically, I moved my body out of his way as he attacked, struck him using the force of my punch and body shifting and his own momentum against him. If I hadn't have pulled my punch to his temple, I'm quite sure I could have knocked him out...or at least to the point I could have walked away safely. He was not amused by my demonstration, and wanted to do it again. I said there was no point in it, as I had proven my point, and he would be more wary the next time, so the results would possibly have been different. My opinion...for what it's worth.[/i]

The sword/katana woukld be made of much finer, better quatilty steel of course. than a sai would...but normally with a sai, you don't block directly against a sword in a equal energy vs energy strike. More of a deflection movement at an angle. As I understand it though, a katana wasn't that strong (brittle?), especially on the sides of the blade. Against something else steel...I'm not sure.

I didn't take it that way. Just keep in mind taht a guy you are fighting for real isn't necessarily going to give you just "a slight beating". It's possible, as in any real fight, that you could DIE. Some peopel carry weapons. some people will stomp and kick you without mercy if you fall on the floor, possibly causing fatal injurys, or permanent disfigurement (broekn cheekbones, teeth, jaw, groin, etc) It's not worth it bud...trust the voice of experience on that one. You need to keep in mind that your inbstructors were not the same as a guy you would be fightingfor real. No doubt..rough as they were..your instructors knew when to stop, or when to pull a technique. A street fighter won't. Getting a torn gi and a few bumps and bruises from friends/instructors is one thing...fighting a total stranger that is hell bent on kicking the crap out of you is another.