Shorinryu Sensei

A skill limit? Oh heck no! In fact, you don't even hve had to take a single lesson to start your own style! Just look in the back of any martial arts magazine and buy a gi, gelt and off you go! No kidding..it's that easy. Well, being old enough to walk would probbly be a good thing. But honestly, who's going to take a 16 year old Master of the Martial Arts very seriously? As opposed to starting a new martial art based around somebody else's skills...or no skills at all? Ah..now we're getting down to the nitty gritty here. How about giving us some idea of your martial arts background. Start with your age, how many years (months?) of training in what arts and what belt you currently are. That will help us a lot in helping you make this major decision about starting your own style. I anxiously await your reply, as I really want to help you with this.

Exactly! All systems do the same "basic" techniques (a front snap kick for example), but it's the reason or application behind how and why they do them a certain way that is the difference. I've also seen this in blck belts..even HIGH Dan black belts. They can do the technique, but can't explain WHY they do them a certain way. This is not a good sign if you ask me. Yes. I've taken low ranking belts into other dojo's to watch their classes (with their sensei's permission of course) and then gone back to our dojo to talk about what they've seen. Obviously, low ranking belts normally will miss the subtle differences in systems unless they are pointed out to them. We use these excursions..which I haven't done in a long time...as a training tool. Well, not necessarily. I've found that people that come into my dojo thinking they already know how to kick, punch and block from another system...have a tough time adjusting often times to the way that we do it. I think a lot of it depends on how open minded they are and how flexible in their thinking they are. Some people get stuck into thinking they know it already and won't change. Some of these people stay, some don't. My senior student...a Sandan now..was origionally in Goju Ryu. His transition was relatively easy, but also had some "bumps" to overcome.

I'm not saying that a well placed head kick isn't going to work IF it connects, but a BJJ guy with any sense, especially knowing full well the TKD guy wants to kick him in the head, is going to go under it and take that base leg right out from under him and have him wrapped up like a Christmas present in no time at all. From what I've seen of BJJ, or JJ in general, they start out in a similar stance to a wrestler..low, weight forward and ready to dive at your legs. The absolute worst thing IMHO, is to raise your leg and try to kick them.

I've been in the arts for over 30 years now and have tried to expose myself to as many different arts as possible through observation of them. I love the art I'm in and feel it is the best for me, so I've never tried another one, but through observation and many conversations with sensei from other arts, I feel that I have a pretty rounded background in what I feel works..and what doesn't. Are the different styles of karate different? Oh, most definitely! As I've said before, they have commonalities in that they all basically kick and punch, but for example, HOW they kick and punch can be different. For example, the basic roundhouse kick. We teach it that (using the back foot for example) you come up to your knee just like you're going to do a front snap kick. After it leaves the knee, it swings out in a SHORT arc to your target. The vast majority of other systems I've seen bring the back footed roundhouse out in a wide arc starting as soon as it leaves the floor. To them, this is good technique...to us, it is horrible technique and and needs to be fixed in the student. The wider arc is a major telegraph and is much esier to avoid or block than the way that we do it. Take the same kick, the roundhouse with the front foot this time. Again, we bring it up straight to our knee first, then hook it in a short arc to the target. Other systems I've seen bring it from the floor and start to arc out immediately. Again, it's right for them..wrong for us. Now, take the open hand block as another example. Many systems bring that block back to their ear and "chamber" it to strike the incoming arm. Again, to them, that's correct..to us, that's a major mistake. While the arm is back by your ear, your torso/face is exposed. Rather, we take that same blocking open hand and bring it up slightly at a 45 degre if front of us, leaving both of our arms in front of us for coverage and blocking, and strike down in a short, quick snapping motion and across for the block. This is all MUCH easier to demonstrate than to type out to make it clear to you and all reading this. Anyway, I'm not saying what other systems do is wrong...just different...and to us, yes it is wrong. Actually, where your hand, arm or leg is positioned during a technique can radically change the apllication and power behind that technique. Another example of differences such as this would be the high block. There are systems out there that teach that the high block ending position is with the arm parallel to the ground. To us, this is another major error and needs correction. Think about it...if you're blocking an incoming punch to the face, that block would work just fine...but change that incoming fist to a downward striking base ball bat aimed at smashing your skull. With your arm parallel to the floor when you block it, what is going to happen when the bat strikes your forearm? It's not only going to probably break your arm, but probably still make good contact with your head and knock you senseless...so what did you accomplish by it? Not much I'd say other than to slow down the bat so it didn't hit your head quite so hard...but it still hit your head! Now, the way that we do the high block, and I won't get into the exact procedure for the entire movement, is that the arm ends up at a 45 degree angle to the ground with the elbow at about mouth/chin height...much lower than most systems use. With the arm at a 45 degree angle, the bat is deflected downwards and to the side, and the most (I've actually done this in class) injury you will recieve is a bruised forearm...not broken. Plus, the bat won't hit you in the head. There are literally hundreds of other examples I can give you, but I hope you get the idea. Yes, all systems of karate have simularities...but they don't all do the same thing and for the same reasons. What's right in one system is wrong in another.

That's right...so get the heck off my thread! Just kidding folks....but I agree. If you want to have a UK gathering, I think that would be GREAT! I have strong reasons for wanting to go to the UK myself, but like you guys, money is a problem.

In posts you've made in other parts of this forum, it appears you are new to the martial arts Lisa? If so, what the heck are you doing learning the bo, when you said earlier that you don't know your basic kicks and punches? *shaking my head here* Lisa, almost every question you've asked on this forum, including this one, can be answered best by your sensei much more effectively than we can. We can't see what you'd doing wrong with your "spinning the bo", but your sensei can. The same goes for your kicks and punches on another thread. I'd suggest starting with him/her. We, on this forum, would be glad to help you, but some things are best left to your sensei and his/her teachings. You appear to me to be in a hurry to learn as fast as possible, which is a good thing...but some things in the martial arts take time and patience. Maybe you're not ready for the bo yet...maybe you are. Personally, I don't teach the bo to a student until they are into their brown belts...about 2.5 - 3 years of training. They need to be able to use their karate effectively and understand the physics and mechanics behind it before they start weapons.

If all you're interested in is tournament competitions and weapons, I'd suggest doing whichever weapon you are most comfortable with, and good at. If that's the bo, then stick with the bo. I've been a judge since about 1980 at open (all style) tournaments, and for me, I'd rather see a good, strong effective bo kata any day over a flashy junk kata with any other weapon. I'm sitting there as a judge looking for good, strong, solid technique...not flash. The weapon you chose doesn't matter...technique and knowledge does.

My classes are two hours long, twice/week. Times aren't set in stone, but this is close: 20 minutes: stretching/warmups/basics. We run through them pretty fast. 1 hour: Self-defense techniques/Sparring. Generally we'll do a theme for the day. Defense against grabs, kicks, weapons, punches. 30 minutes: kata 10 minutes: stretching

I'll tell you exactly what is going to happen Saturday when you do a high TKD kick on a BJJ guy. He's going to duck under the kick and tackle your base leg and take you down to the ground and have you (assuming he's any good of course) wrapped up and tapping out within seconds. Any bets?

What I was getting at was that like karate with its kicks and punches, all cars have engines and transmissions, so basically they are the same in certain aspects. Like karate, cars can vary quite a bit in their function and effectiveness. Some are very basic transportation and very limited as to how they function and what they can do...the same with certain karate systems IMHO. I don't want to get into specific martial arts and bashing them, but there are systems out thee that kick, punch, block, grapple, etc, but they are not doing realistic fighting techniques. Basically, all flash, and no "go. Take a basic car like the Ford Model T. Not fancy, but it gets you from point A to point B just fine (kicks and punches). Many people are satisfied with this sort of "car" and not looking for anything beyond what it is capable of doing for them. Then we have the vehicles like the SUV's. Able to go places other "cars" can't go, do things other "cars" can't do and in general, more realistic and versatile in what they offer and are capable of doing. Re-reading this...maybe I've made it even more confusing. Basically, looking at all of the different forms of karate out there in the world, there are those that are very good, and those that aren't very good. But there again, it all depends on what you want out of a karate system. If you want flash and no substance (think these mini cars out now with huge spoilers, graphics, HUGE stereos, etc...but a 4 cylinder motor)...there are those out there that do that. If you want substance and effectiveness in any situation (think "Hummer"! ), there are systems out there for that also.

I had a guy about 5 years ago when I was doing security at a local bar, pull a knife on me. He held it up in front of his face with the blade pointing up. I did a quick disarm and takedown on him, my partner handcuffed him and the cops hauled him away. He never actually came at me, but pulling the knife was looked at as a threat. As for the thread topic, anybody that pulls a knife on you MUST be considered skilled and potentially very dangerous. You don't know until he attacks you, or defends against your attack, if he's skilled or not. The nice thing about defending against a knife, baseball bat, or other weapon, is that they are limited in the angles of attack they can use, and if you understand those angles, it gives you advantages. I've seen a lot of martial arts schools teaching some really stupid, "Hollywoodish" techniques against weapons, including trying to kick a knife out of someones hand or kick them in the head without doing anything at all about securing or neutralizing the weapon. Pure stupidity IMHO.

Look at it this way...are all cars the same? Well, basically...yes. They all have 4 wheels, an engine/transmission, etc...but they are not all the same. Karate is the same way. Basically, they are all the same, having kicks, punches, etc...but they are not the same in what they do with them, or how the execute them.

I wouldn't recommend trying to copy kicks and such off the internet, as different systems have different methods of doing the same kicks. Just because you missed a couple of classes shouldn't put you behind. Be patient and ask yoru sensei the next time you're in class to show you what you missed.

Actually, it would be cheaper if you made your martial arts school a corporation for around $150. Keep the school seperate from your home, so that if you did get sued...which I've never heard of a school being sued in the 30 years I've been in the arts....they can only sue the corporation, not you personally. This protects your personal belongings, such as your home. Gotta love loopholes!

So far, I'd say it looks like just a couple of people planning on coming so far. As for working out....how can you get a bunch of martial artists together and NOT work out?

sho = show (long "o" sound) to = toe (long "o" sound) kan = kahn...as in lawn (soft "a" sound)

It's not a matter of putting down someone Angela, it's a matter of believing that someone can attain multiple legitimate high Dan's in multiple systems, such as mentioned on Mr. Moneymaker's website. Founding a unique system gives you the right to claim a high Dan in that system, but IMO, numerous Dans above 4-5th Dan in multiple systems gives me pause to become suspicous of fraud and self-inflation for money making (hey, that was clever! ) purposes. IMO, even starting at a young age, and I don't know how old Mr. Moneymaker is, I don't believe that someone can legitimately attain a 9th Dan black belt in ANY system in 25 years. A 9th Dan, IMO, is a rank that is achieved after many, MANY years of study and work in a system, such as 40+ years in just one art. Mr. Moneymaker is claiming a 9th Dan in Torite-jutsu, which he founded apparently, so that would be OK. Also a 9th Dan in Okinawan Kempo Karate-do...but who from is my question? Then a 8th Dan in World and British Kenpo Arts Federation...again, who from? Not to mention a 6th Dan in TKD, 5th Dan in Isshinryu Karate-do, 4th Dan in Aikibudo and 2nd Dan in Japanese Goju-ryu Karate-do. How old is this guy...150? Did he train 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for 50 years to attain such high belts in so many systems? I'm sorry Angela...I'm afraid we're going to keep butting heads on this one and I'm going to remain very skeptical about anybody that claims such high ranks in so many different systems. I've seen people that self-promote themselves to high rank, usually starting their own "styles" when they do it, and then exchange high rank certificates in their systems for high rank certificates in other systems with other people that are self-promoted and having their own "styles". I myself was given a 3rd Dan certificate...as legitimate as any in this guys organization (American Korean Karate Association...now defunct) and in return he asked me to give him a 3rd Dan in Shorin Ryu. I flat out refused, but told him if he'd like to take classes, he could get it in about 10-15 years or so. Well...he wasn't interested in that. I still have that certificate he gave me...it's good for a laugh. He had certificates hanging all over his walls claiming he had at LEAST 6th Dans in about 8 different systems, and had never taken a class in any of them. To me, that is a HUGE pile of *, and reflects poorly on the arts. People comijng off the street into your dojo don't know the difference usually, and think "Wow, this guy must be good!"...and he wasn't. Skill-wise, I'd place this self-proclaimed "master" of the MA's at MAYBE a brown belt level...that's it. Oh wow....got on my soapbox there didn't I? Sorry folks, but a nerve was struck there when I start talking about this subject.

I'm not familiar enough to know which system he is doing, or trying to do, but I know dillman has been making claims for years that he is the sole possessor of OSensei Soken's "Secret" one touch, no touch knockout techniques. He as never been able to verify any of these claims, and the only thing that has been verified (from what I understand) is that he worked out with OSensei for a day or two...period. Anybody knowing OSensei, and most of my instructors had trained with him prior to his death, knows that OSensei wouldn't pass on ANYTHING of real value to someone just for the asking, or some guy (especially American) that trained with him for a few days.

It isn't Dillman's teaching style that bothers me, and just about every other Shorinryu follower of OSensei Sokens teachings, but rather Dillman's claims about how he learned all these "secrets" from a weekend workout with OSensei. If Mr. Moneymaker broke away from Dillman, that is a point in his favor IMHO.

Fly/drive/Amtrak/hitchhike into Kalispell, Montana. Weather permitting, we might camp out in Glacier national Park, or at least at my house. Interested?

Is...or was Rick Moneymaker under George Dillman?

If you are a senior student...at least a black belt from the same club, I think you may be able to ask NICELY to confer with the judges. However, if you are under a black belt in rank, I'd suggest keeping quiet. Personally, if a lower belt came up to me...even nice and respectful, and told me I was missing points...it would, IMO, provide possible cause to have your team mate disqulified.

Different tournaments have different procedures, so that will vary. In the tournaments that I attend and judge/referree, the competitor (unless he/she is the instructor) isn't allowed to challenge the judges with a call/decision. They have to have their instructor, or one of their assistant instructors talk to the judge/ref. You do NOT want to wait until the end of competition, as the judges/ref's may not remember the specific event. After a full day of watching sparring or kata, they tend to blend one into the other. However, and again, this will depend on the tournament, I would think that if you approached the judge/ref respectively and asked them for a time out and an explanation of the point awarded (orwhatever you want to know)...I would think they would be willing to do so as long as it didn't happen often, and didn't slow down the competition process much.

School colors: black and blue...with a bit of greenish yellow mxed in...but usually only after we do kotoate drills (maybe have spelled that wrong).

Well. let's take a look at it. From his webpage: The first thing I noticed was that he got his 9th Dan in Torite-jutsu (which he co-founded) and his 6th Dan in Tae Kwon Do on the same date. Interesting, and suspicious. *hackles raised here* Just a mere year and a half before that, he got his 8th Dan in World and British Kenpo Arts Federation ..whatever that is. It states a bit further down that he has 25 years of experience in the martial arts. IMHO, that isn't enough time, regardless of how hard you work at it, to get anywhere near 9th Dan in one system, let alone several. As for being inducted into any Hall of Fame (Shame?), that's relly not a big deal in most instances, as there are many Hall's of Fame's for martial arts out there...most of which all you have to do is pay them some money and you're in! The fact that he's written books and made video's has no merit as to his legitimacy in the arts. Heck, I can write a book or make a video, publish and distribute them, and that doesn't make me any better than who I am right now...except that people might recognise my name more. Interesting to note that I can't find any reference to who this guy has trained under. Personally, I'd wear a neck high set of waders if I walked into his dojo....but that's my personal opinion. Update: Upon further browsing of that website I found a link to "Hohan Soken's SECRET Notes"...this is starting to smell like a George Dillman clone, or student of his perhaps? The biggest thing I see about these "Secret" notes...are that OSensei Soken spoke NO English at all, yet the notes are in English and Japanese. Oh yeah...OSensei Soken knew, but seldom spoke Japanese also, as he hated the language and wasn't to fond of the people either. So why would he write his Secret notes in those languages???