Elky

Good old Mr Dillman, apparently he was once a well-respected martial artist but the no-touch KO stuff has ruined his reputation.

That's illogical too. So anyone who doesn't train in okinawan karate is doing a sporting style? Do you think that's what the fukien white crane or other CMA practitioners are saying about Okinawan karateka? "They've made a change to that stance from White Crane style - they're clearly doing a sporting style". Martial arts evolve - they still are evolving. I don't doubt it, my point is that shotokan kata emphasise strong technique and solid stances - generally good qualities to be found in a striking art. The strength of technique is integral to successfully performing the shotokan kata. Many so-called "authentic" styles of karate teach kata without the same degree of physicality meaning that the benefits of training in the kata are limited to memorising the sequences.

What is the logic behind that? Why would a long stance need to be introduced particularly for schoolchildren?

If you dont consider this to be a sportive aspect, how would you describe it? Basic "on the job" physical conditioning. I do not believe that the archetypical shotokan zenkutsudachi was introduced just to look good in tournaments.

Overly long stances, modifications to original kata for the purpose of excercise and physical strength. Hmmm, I agree with you about modifying kata for competition, that is annoying. But I disagree about the "overly" long stances. They're a feature of shotokan training generally (and let's be honest, they're not that long!). Shotokan kata do value ballistic movement, focus and power over subtlety, but they do instill these values in students, unlike many other styles which teach sloppy kata under the guise of "authenticity" and then don't bother teaching the bunkai anyway.

What do you feel are the "sport like" elements of shotokan kata?

Well done mate! Sounds like you've really earned it!

ITF taekwondo people do!

Thanks everyone! You're a friendly bunch - I feel most welcome!

Ha ha! Ya big meany!

Hi! I've been here a couple of weeks now but never got around to posting an intro. I've been training in shotokan karate with the KUGB for seven years but I take an academic interest in martial arts as a whole. Anything to do with the history and origins of martial arts styles or customs interests me. My other big interest is in realistic applications of martial arts. I get quite annoyed when people say "oh, that technique is to block a guy throwing two simultaneous punches" - people don't throw simultaneous punches! I'm a traditional karate guy at heart - I've tried loads of different martial arts but karate has always seemed like the "right way" of doing things to me. Nice to meet you all!

By the time they reach black belt, most people have realised how little black belt means. I don't mean that in any kind of spiritual zen "bcoming nothingness" kind of way. I just mean that a black belt is just another grade. It's a fantastic one and all those who have it deserve a pat on the back, but black belts are just brown belts who've done one extra grading. It's the person that makes the martial art.

I personally don't like bouncing but then if you watch all the world champion WKF karateka (eg ), they bounce all over the shop and they probably know much more about it than I do. On the other hand, the top kyokushinkai karateka bounce much less (e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DAepRbZC6E). Bouncing seems to be about vying for psychological advantage and position, which only seems to work if your opponent is willing to play the game too.

The fighter with hair in the first match was quite unlucky not to have scored with the two ashi barai / kizame tsuki combinations he did.

Do you know what's been going on with karate england recently? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,28910-2431341,00.html

Karate Union of Great Britain (KUGB)

How are you used to training? Point sparring is a crappy term that to me describes American teenagers in satin pants trying to tap each other with a flying spin kick. This isn't how most shotokan dojos train, but on the other hand they likely won't be kyokushin style full-contact either.

Could "Neon" be "Nihon", meaning "Japanese"? So he's saying he'll teach you "Nihon kata" meaning Japanese kata? Just another stab in the dark!

^^This^^Call it a lucky break and don't give it a second thought. Think of it as the clothing equivalent of taping a couple of CDs

I agree ashworth. i have a friend who has a Black belt in another style and has started training in GKR. when they start sparring my friend is always getting in trouble for using techniques that are not part of the system. they have also asked him to start teaching the kids classes because he is showing SKILLS of becoming a good Black belt. with this he now gets to train in an instructors class. he has worked with some people that are graded higher than him, that have an ego problem. so doing what hes trained to do, he throws different attacks to them and gives it back to them. I know i strayed off track a little but in the end, my friend now teaches GKR with 7 months of training behind him, but luckely has trained for 5 years prior. Five years isn't a lot in martial arts terms. Most people are only just getting their black belt by that point.

There's a book called "karate kata applications" by Aiden Trimble. It doesn't have a lot of applications in it, but it's got lots of nice clear detailed photos to guide you through the shotokan kata. Lots of people in my club have found it very useful.

I think ninjutsu make a point of not doing high kicks. Same with kenpo. Probably a karate based style. From the jumping spin kicks either kyokushin style or taekwondo/tang soo do.

I'm hoping they'll introduce hyakyuhachiho to the mainstream - it seems like quite a cool kata. Maybe sanchin too.

We've got (I think) 26 and I know Kihon/Taikyoku shodan Heian 1-5 Tekki shodan Bassai Dai Jion Empi Hangetsu Kenku dai and getting there with Nijushiho That's interesting! Which two are they bringing in?

That's tough, I've had odd lessons in karate, japanese jiu jutsu, Brazillian Jujitsu, tae kwon do, ninjutsu and kenpo but only ever stuck with karate. So I guess really I'm a 1 (although I've trained in 3 different kinds of karate).