John G

It makes no difference whether General Choi was a nationalist, communist, socialist, democrat, republican or dictator, that is unless of course your definition of a martial art is that to which ones political affiliation lay. Although politics has shaped the direction of TKD from its inception, one should be cautious not to throw the baby out with the bath water based upon political ideologies alone. TKD (generically speaking for the purpose of this discussion) was at first introduced as a tool to be used in hand-to-hand combat by its fledging Korean army. Instead of re-inventing the wheel the Koreans decided to beg, borrow or steal from other martial arts of the time to fulfil their immediate requirements. It was at a latter date that politics both private and national, influenced not only the direction of TKD but also the writing / re-writing of its history’s and systems. To think that ones martial art is pure is delusional. Re-engineering systems and re-writing histories to suit a militaristic, nationalistic, or a private agenda is nothing new, and not exclusively the domain of Korean martial arts or those arts developed within the Asia pacific region. As a martial artist it is important to keep an open mind and seek the truth no matter how disdainful it may be. Therefore “Is TKD considered Karate?” the answer depends on what version of TKD history you want me to tell you, and what your definition or version of Karate is. The scope of the answer is same as if I were to ask the question “is Karate considered a Chinese martial art” Respectfully,

I agree equaninimus. The only difficulty is finding out what the real truth is, and once found, would we dare tell others? The truth behind TKD is much the same as any other martial art taught to those of the privileged. Respectfully,

Keep your class constantly flowing, as soon as they start to loose concentration switch to another task or send them off for a quick drink break. Constantly switching between primary type lesson plans (What if scenarios; stranger danger, fire, snake bites etc), secondary type lesson plans (Games: team building, self control, strength, stamina, balance, hand/eye co-ordination etc.) in 5 – 10 minute blocks gets you through the hour without to many problems. I have 40 of these little tykes (not all in the same class thank goodness) and have a lot of fun helping them grow and develop both mentally and physically. Make sure they all have had a drink and gone to the toilet before starting the class. Have fun and enjoy… Respectfully,

Don’t be too concerned about what you have heard, as TKD clubs can vary from full on Olympic sports TKD through to full on martial arts TKD. All I can suggest is that you make a list of what you want out of TKD and go down to the local WTF and ITF clubs and ask the instructor/s if they can meet your requirements. As long as you are polite I can’t see you having any problems. Respectfully,

I teach much for the same reasons as people have stated above, the reality is that I was thrown into the position through circumstance and a sense of loyalty to my fellow students. Jury is still out with regard to whether or not I will continue teaching. There are many positives to teaching but there are equally as many negatives. The positives generally fall into helping to build well-balanced people for the stability of our society category; negatives generally fall into the political * and financial viability category. The thought of immortality through teaching is seductive; taking the weekend off to go fishing with a few mates (now improbable) is equally appealing at times. I have yet to find the right balance. Respectfully,

pmh1nic, Couldn't agree with you more, instructors need to know when to let go especially if there is no follow-up for black belts. If its a monetary thing thats just plain selfish greed. Monkeygirl and CloudDragon, I know what it's like to turn up to every week after week, year after year, and only pick up a bit of technique here and there from the master instructor or from a Senior belt. You have to personally evaluate why you are there and what you want out of it. For me as a student, I go to class pickup the little (but important) things I missed out on in the mad rush to black belt. Besides enjoying teaching other what I have been taught, I enjoy the company of the people ( both higher and lower rank) I have trained with over the years. Every Wednesday we go out (after class) and have a pizza and socialize. As an instructor there are other reasons why I attend my master instructor's classes. Respectfully,

I may have read your post wrong, but if your asking as an instructor do we get upset or disappointed when a student leaves, I guess that depends on the circumstances. If your student achieves the level of black belt and leaves the next day without a word, sure I would be upset. Not for what the student has done, but for what I have or haven't done. If your student comes up to you and says "Thank you for what you have taught me however I would like to explore other arts". I would understand. If a student says "Your crappy, I'm going to train under another instructor and or art", Well what would you say... Respectfully,

Happy new year to all the staff and members of KF

MadCapoeirista, I think only the first 5 chapters have been translated and placed on the web. It is predominately about the evolution of the WTF and KTA therefore is bias toward those federations. I have read General Choi's Memoirs which is obviously bias toward his federation (ITF), I guess somewhere between what they said, and what he said, is the truth. Respectfully,

Toast, Having faith in only what is taught, although admirable restricts us as martial artists to communicate and help each other develop. What is spoken/ written or what we see with our own eyes is not necessarily the truth, one has to seek as much information as possible from all sides before formulating in our own minds what our version of the truth is. To find the truth about anything one has to go back at least three stages and continually ask the question why. Here are a few links to help you on the way: http://www.beckmartialarts.com/ctkdfaq.html http://www.mooto.com/eng/webzine/news_view.asp?news_no=776# http://www.martialartsresource.com/anonftp/pub/the_dojang/digests/history.html Respectfully,

My comments were directed toward ITF/WTF TKD sportive sparring specifically. No one yet has given an good explanation on why fist/hand techniques are given a low scoring value in ITF sportive sparring, and fist/hand techniques are illegal in WTF sportive sparring. No I haven't had experience fighting in Olympic style tournaments, however I am a ITF short heavyweight mens fighter... 5'9". kg. and after having tournament sparred for the past 6 years can attest to the fact that my longer limbed opponents have it over me. Taking out fist/hand techniques would make life easier for me. Respectfully,

I hope you’re not serious! ...

(Affiliation, insurance, hall fees) + (advertising, flyers, handouts) + (equipment procurement, replacement) + (transport costs) + (tax) + (your time) / (total number of students you expect) I charge about $30/month per student for 2 days a week. Respectfully,

I agree, its not what I train for, as one only use a handful of techniques when sparring. However the general public perception is that our sparring represents the martial art. And I have to admit that it appears (from posts to these forums) that the sporting side of TKD is taking over the MA side of TKD Some years ago I was told why WTF TKD was included into the Olympics from a well known international ITF master when asked about ITF and the Olympics. Needless to say that this story revolves around money, power and prestige. It’s no secret that ITF and WTF have been at each other throats for years to become the “one and only”, “truest of true”, original, Korean martial art. It’s also no secret that the Japanese also wanted another one of their martial arts included into the Olympics. The only reason why TKD is in the Olympics today is because of the constant pressure placed on the IOC by both WTF and ITF and more importantly by the Japanese IOC delegate at that time. WTF from its beginnings was constructed not to look like ITF, therefore WTF sparing rule were modified not only to look different, but also to bias towards smaller framed Korean fighters. ITF also has this bias but to a lesser extent. See your average western fighter has longer arms and legs than you average Korean, so by taking out or reducing the points scored for punches half the problem was solved. Another fact is that taller people tend to telegraph middle/high kicks to a greater extent than that of a smaller person, smaller framed people can move quicker around a taller opponent. This is why TKD sparing rules are the way they are. So why were the Japanese so adamant that TKD should be included in the Olympics? Simple, It’s easier to change the rules of a second Asian MA sport than to introduce a new one. That is to say, allow WTF to showcase their form of sparing (and we all know what that looks like). Then let the ITF “have a go”. Once the ITF rules are in place claim that since ITF looks like and feels like Karate why not have the real thing. Anyway, so much for the Olympic martial arts conspiracy, time will tell. If anyone would like to put forward their Martial Art for inclusion in the Olympics to replace TKD you’re more than welcome. Sooner or latter the MA defence side will cave into the money orientated sporting side. No disrespect was meant for those athletes who have dedicated years of blood sweat and tears, training and competing in the Olympics. These people should be congratulated for representing their respective countries in these events No problems, its that time of the year I have grown to respect your opinions on these forums and don’t mind the occasional dig once in a while. Most of the time I feel you already know the answers to the questions you pose and just want people to open their minds and research rather than trolling or starting flame wars. Respectfully,

Man/woman with biggest stick...

Depends on your TKD instructor, TKD ranges from a full blown martial art through to an Olympic sport. Respectfully,

Ouch!! Shorinryu Sensei, WTF TKD is considered more sports orientated than ITF.. Typo I’m sure At your present level (1st Gup) you SHOULD have been taught 10 stances, 23 blocks, 20 punches/strikes and 5 kicks from your tulls/katas/patterns alone. 5 kicks represents at best 10% of your training requirements, if your instructor spends 90% of your time teaching a handful of kicks you would be well advised to get out now and find an instructor who will teach you the necessary requirements. It is indeed disturbing (although not surprising) to think that standards have slipped to this degree. If you wish, privately email me your instructors name and dojang and I will do what I can to have this matter rectified so others don’t get fooled into wasting their time and money at your dojung. It makes no difference what you replace TKD in the Olympics with, if it involves rules and there’s someone judging; it’s a sport, full stop. In the end, martial arts is what YOU want it to be; as an participant it can range from living, eating and breathing war, death and destruction through to winning a gold medal at the Olympics. Fortunately most of us are some where in the middle. Respectfully,

Shorinryu Sensei, Ninjanurse and MadCapoeirista summed up much of what I had to say. The senior BB who stated "We don't attend open tournaments because we would DOMINATE them so much that they wouldn't invite us back again." is either an idiot or just yanking your chain. Sparing is only a sport, it doesn’t represent real life combat, nor is it touted to be the be all and end all of martial sports. It is what it is, a game played like any other game with rules. Somehow I think you already know this… Respectfully,

If you enjoy the MA club you’re in and the people involved, who cares how much it costs or doesn’t cost. If you desperately desire a black belt I have two plans: 1. Pay me $16.00 + postage and promise to be a good girl or boy and uphold the laws of your country, and I will send you a black belt with your name embroidered on it in white. 2. Pay me $20,000.00 + postage and promise to be a good girl or boy and uphold the laws of your country, and I will send you a black belt with your name embroidered on it in gold (and I mean real gold thread). This way you can walk down the street with (or without) your black belt on and stare that warrior stare to the people who pass you by. If you own one of my gold embroidered belts, feel secure in the knowledge that it is of better quality. ...

Welcome to the forums TKD...

Thanks JerryLove, defiantly food for thought.

JerryLove, did Jiang Fa "soften" the art for any particular reason?... I was one told that Tai Chi was developed by a Master who found that the rigours of an art he trained in since youth, weight heavy on a old body therefore he modified the art to suit his needs in old age. Is this just another one of those wives tails or is there some truth to it? Respectfully,

The origins of tai chi go back many hundreds of years. The person who is traditionally credited as being the 'founder' of tai chi is the monk Chang San-feng, who was stationed at the Wu Tang monastery, and, depending upon sources, lived somewhere between 960AD and 1460 AD, although some scholars question his existence at all, ascribing him to a mythical figure. The theory is that Chang San-feng originated a style that combined both existing combat techniques and other movements, primarily designed to increase the flow of chi energy through the body, thus creating a form that was a physical manifestation of Taoist thinking. Going back even further, the ancestors of tai chi can be seen in the sixth century: Bodhidharma visited the Shao-lin monastery, and developed a system of excersise for the monks, who he saw in poor physical condition from too much meditation. This was known as the Eighteen Form Lohan Excersise. Later, in the eighth century, this was developed into a 37-form 'Long Kung-Fu', which unlike other schools of Kung-fu, was based upon a 'soft' or internal approach, rather than a 'hard' external one. Looking back even further than this, we can see that in the third century, the physician Hua-tu'o created a system of excersise to aid digestion and circulation, based upon the movements of animals and birds. The effect of this system was to move every part of the body. Tai Chi Chuan, the original combat form of Tai Chi, translated means Supreme Ultimate Fist, 'chuan' meaning a method of boxing or combat. Unlike many other martial arts, which were 'aggressive' or outward, Tai Chi Chuan's main principle was that of a 'soft' combat - absorbing the opponent's aggressive energy and using it against him. This is a principle of yin and yang, a balance of opposites where soft is used to overcome hard: the maxim "four ounces to deflect a thousand pounds" or "overcome a weight of a thousand carries by four ounces" is often used. Imagine an opponent twice your weight throwing a powerful punch - the Tai Chi Chuan adept would step back, absorb the punch by grasping the fist and pulling it past him, using his opponent's own forward energy and motion to overbalance the attacker. Or he might respond in any number of ways, always using the same principles. Although 'soft', this was a very violent form, designed for killing and maiming (lest we forget), in an efficient and scientific way. Modern non-violent tai chi as a form on its own, rather than being a part of chuan, was developed much later, as the need for combat gradually decreased - although the tai chi practitioner is always aware that the forms that he is using are the same as those of combat, but slower. In the eighteenth century, Yang Lu-chan removed the label of 'secrecy' on the form, and started his own 'Yang' style of tai chi, becoming known at the imperial court as 'Yang the Unsurpassable'. After his death, one of his students, Chen Hsui-feng, became head of the Yang School. One of Yang Lu-chan's sons, Yang Pan-hou, had a student called Wu Quan-yu, whose son; Wu Chien-chuan became disillusioned with the Yang style and created his own 'Wu' style. Another of Yang Lu-chan's sons, Yang Chien-hou, had three sons, one of which, Yang Chen-fu, is largely responsible for popularising the Yang style and bringing it to the West in this century. He became known as 'Yang the Invincible' source: http://www.soton.ac.uk/~maa1/chi/taichi/origins.htm Comments?

van allen.. Weren’t they a famous pop group back in the 80’s?

WolverineGuy, As I work out of town halls/YMCA etc. and have around 40 regular students, my main concern was to save enough money to cover 6 months hall fees and 12 months insurance fees. Since I have full time employment already (Non instructional) any money I make from my clubs goes directly back into the clubs in the form of equipment, advertising etc. It’s only been 5 months since my clubs were opened, a few thing I have learnt are: 1. Be yourself, work within your own limitations and have confidence in your abilities. 2. Be aware of seasonal influences. 3. Make sure you have reliable transport. 4. Show respect and you will be given respect. 5. Try to remember the names of all your students as they respond better if their name is called rather than just pointing to them or just saying next. 6. When working with kids, be flexible with your attitude but always maintain control. 7. Treat adult students as adults and not as school kids. 8. The greatest number of injuries occurs before the class starts when people are mucking around. 9. Do a basic first aid course or have some form of contingency plan in case someone gets hurt. 10. Always remember what it was like the first day you started MA or what it was like before your first grading. 11. Keep your accounts up to date, you may have to employ the services of an accountant and remembers the Taxman, avoid cheating the system, as you are likely to get caught 12. Try to avoid anxiety attacks 15 minutes before class when no one has shown up. They will show (eventually). 13. Don’t take it personally if someone leaves. 14. Define and make sure everyone is aware of your standards before signing them up. 15. Be aware of political influences within your group and keep in the loop. It’s a big step from being “just a student” to a club owner/instructor, one that shouldn’t be taken lightly. Make sure you know exactly why you choose this path is it fame, fortune or a little of both. Have a business plan, and be prepared to work hard over the next 3 – 5 years before thing start to take off. Remember, if you fail, the dreams and aspirations of your students are also goes down the gurgler. Best of luck with the finances and I hope your club does well. Respectfully,