bushido_man96

I don't think I'll be leaving the school for any reason. If anything, it still provides me a place to train, even if I solo train. There aren't many options here for me to train at. There is a fellow around here that does some ground/submission stuff out of his fitness center, but I'm reluctant to seek any training out there, just from what I know of the place. There is a Karate dojo I'm not really interested in, and also and Aikido dojo. I have trained at the Aikido dojo before, and I like the instructor. I don't necessarily see eye-to-eye with all the training philosophies, but I can train around those issues. If I were to pick another school, that would be the one I'd look to. I guess the major thing I wouldn't look forward to is a newly minted 5th dan starting to pull rank on me. That would rub me the wrong way, indeed.

There's a little bit to unpack there, DarthPenguin, so I'll address them. 1. As for the impact on me and my training, probably not too much. I'm at the point in my journey where I feel I learn more from exploring different things myself, researching and experimenting, than I do from an instructor trying to teach me a new form or set of one-steps. 2. I wouldn't feel the need to leave the school, for sure. Truth is, the student population has dropped so much in the last few years, there aren't many students to teach...not adult students, anyway. What would bother me the most, and this is superficial I admit, is that the higher ranked CI would not be a better instructor than me. 3. I feel I am the better teacher. Maybe that's bragging, but it's how I feel about it. The current CI probably has 1/3 of the training experience I have. I don't think he's a bad instructor at all. He does things differently than I do, and that's always expected. I just don't feel he's a better instructor than I am. Another concern that I've heard brought up in the past is that the GM may not promote to 5th dan if the tester isn't running a school. If that would end up being the case, then the whole situation would take care of itself.

Those are great words, Zaine. Thank you. Contemplation continues.

Thanks for those kind words, Bob. You are very, very welcome.

I know, Bob. It strikes me this way, too. I don't know why, but I feel that if the new owner/instructor gets higher ranked than me...I don't know. All the ceremonious bowing to one with a "higher rank," but lacking so much in experience, turns my stomach a bit. He is currently a 4th dan, same "rank" as I am. Like I mention, it's a weird spot I find myself in, and I don't like it. My other major concern is the sheer cost of the next test, which is ridiculous. In order to stave some of the cost, I had the previous CI start an escrow account for me, basically adding $5 or $10 (I don't remember which) extra out of my monthly dues to put towards the next testing. With that in mind, I should probably go ahead and follow through with it. Like I said, it is a weird position for me, and I'm not necessarily proud of the way I'm approaching it. I've got to get my mind right and test for me, and not anyone else.

I haven't posted here in a while, but I've picked up some more reading lately, and it's brought me back here. With some new faces around, I'm interested in hearing the thoughts and takes of the greater community here To me, this 'expression' seems three-fold here; when we are truly expressing ourselves (and not just going through the motions), we reveal the essence of our "soul," our passion; our expression reveals our "schooling," or what I would guess would be our roots, where our foundations are, be it Martial Art or other athletic or academic expressions; and our "cool" would seem to me to be how we express these thing with our own personal flair. In the Martial Arts training sense, we all have an instructor or instructors that we come from; the one's who began molding us early on in our journeys. As we grow and develop, what we learned sticks with us, but we also learn to start keeping some things and stripping away others. What once was theirs (our teachers) becomes ours, and if we are fortunate enough, we get the chance to start passing it along to others. And in time, they will do the same, and it will become "theirs."

Sure hope your feeling better, Bob! Sounds like things are going well!

I hope your tournament went well! Please update us! 12/8/2022 Strength Training Safety Squats: 60x5x2, 110x5, 165x3, 200x1. And then I had to stop. Health issues are really starting to cause my problems. My head wasn't feeling quite right (Meniere's disease acting up) and as I was doing my warmup sets, I had to stop and rest after each set. The Valsalva maneuver was causing me to get lightheaded, and at one point, the room started spinning. I just couldn't continue, and it's so frustrating.

I hope your tournament went well! Please update us! 12/8/2022 Strength Training Safety Squats: 60x5x2, 110x5, 165x3, 200x1. And then I had to stop. Health issues are really starting to cause my problems. My head wasn't feeling quite right (Meniere's disease acting up) and as I was doing my warmup sets, I had to stop and rest after each set. The Valsalva maneuver was causing me to get lightheaded, and at one point, the room started spinning. I just couldn't continue, and it's so frustrating.

I understand what you mean here, and am finding myself in a similar crossroads in my training. I rarely teach classes anymore, mainly due to the fact that the classes are so small. That, and I'm of the opinion that the gusy who own/run the dojang now are the one's that should be doing it, and not me. But I always love to teach, and will do so when the opportunity arises, but in more of an individual nature. I've gotten to the point where I'm not sure I want to test again. I kind of want to, and one reason is a bad one...I don't want to get "outranked" by the guy running the show now. It's an ego thing more than anything, but I couldn't take this person outranking me seriously. What I have been enjoying is defensive tactics training, and really getting into that for the department I work for. I've restarted with one successful session, and am prepping for the next one in January. I've already got the session planned, and am looking at planning the next one, too. My boss is all-in on providing the training for the department, making it mandatory. He let me order some wrestling mats to train on, some rubber guns for weapon retention training, and we've already got some striking pads for hand and kicking techniques practice. I'm really focused on this. So, back to the thought of testing again. If I did, and passed, it would put me at 5th dan, which is a Master rank in our organization. I wouldn't really want to be called Master, nor would I consider myself a Master. A Master-level instructor, maybe, but just due to years of experience. So, like I say, I'm at a crossroads myself.

Sorry to hear that, Ken. It sucks when injuries set back training. In the meantime, you could probably get lots of kicking practice in. Train around the injury, and perhaps you won't go crazy missing it.

12/6/2022 Strength Training Safety Squats: 60x5x2, 100x5, 140x3, 180x1, 215x5, 215x5, 215x5. Deadlifts: 235x3, 305x2, 340x5. Deadlifts felt good, but...not? Only one rep really pulled away from my shins, but I pretty much corrected it on the following rep. The set was a grind, but other than grinding, there didn't seem to be a lot of difference in rep 1 and rep 5. 12/7/2022 TASER Training: 3 hours of Taser recertification at work today. After some classroom time, everyone went through a few scenarios. It went well.

Thanks very much Second this post! Good luck and go get it!

I agree with Bob; keep up the hard work and the testing will take care of itself. And same to your daughter! What a great deal! The family that kicks together, sticks together!

That remote opportunity sounds like the way to go. I'm sorry to hear that you had to leave the school you were at, but also happy to see you realize that it was time to do so, and that you know your worth. It seems to me, especially in the world of Martial Arts training, that many students think they always have to be beholden to someone of higher rank. I think there comes a time in one's MA journey, especially if it has spanned a couple of decades, to evaluate the training that we do, and determine what it is we want from training ourselves, and begin to seek such pathways out. It appears that is what you have done. What's more, you know what you like, and what you don't like, especially out of the attitude and presence of a higher ranked instructor, and have made a good decision based on this knowledge. Going forward, you can use these experiences to help younger, less experienced students know the difference between bad and good, and perhaps help others make similar decisions, if need be, in order to convince them to extend their journeys, rather than end it based off of some knucklehead's actions. I applaud your decision here. Thank you for sharing it with us.

I used squat three days a week regularly, and I like it. Keeps the movement pattern fresh, and works the whole body. It's absolutely the best lift for skeletal loading. As it gets heavier, I'll end up making Wednesday a light day to aid recovery. If and when I get my arm fixed up so I can start pressing again, I'll probably get back to a 4-day split, with just two squat sessions a week. I don't particularly care for the safety squat bar, but I like it better than not squatting. I can't really hit a low bar squat position with it, so I tend to be a bit more upright, and it hits the quads more than my hamstrings. There is a product out there called a Marrs Bar that I'd like to try, which is very similar, but the way it's built, the bar rides lower, into that low bar position, but still taking the stress off the shoulders. At any rate, I'll continue to use it until I get my arm fixed and rehabbed, and then can get back to my regular routine. 11/29/2022 Rowing Machine: 15 minutes, resting 4 times throughout. 11/30/2022 Strength Training Safety Squats: 60x5x2, 100x5, 140x3, 180x1, 210x5, 210x5, 210x5. RDLs: 45x5, 100x5, 140x3, 185x2, 205x8, 205x8, 205x8. Barbell Rows: 155x8, 155x8, 155x8. Stretch: back, quads, hams, glutes. I hadn't had a light day session in a few weeks, due to scheduling and whatnot. The rows felt like they suffered the most.

Congrats to all who won, and thank you to all those who voted! This is such a great community, and the awards aren't possible without all the great interactions that take place here!

11/28/2022 Holiday week, and we had all kinds of stuff going on, so it was a messed up week for training. But, now we're back... Strength Training Safety Squats: 60x5x2, 100x5, 140x3, 180x1, 205x5, 205x5, 205x5. Deadlifts: 225x3, 295x2, 335x5. Stretch: back, quads, hams, glutes. A good workout today. Kept the squats at last week's work weight. Felt good, and not experiencing any soreness. Deadlifts I went ahead and upped the work set 5 lbs. Pulled well.

Congrats, Wado Heretic!

11/23/2022 Defensive Tactics Training: 8:00 am - 5:00 pm. I taught defensive tactics to our department's personnel today. I had four 2-hour sessions, and the focus was on the recent SPEAR training that me and one of our jail deputies went to recently. We've got some pretty green individuals in our department, and quite a few of them that have never really been in confrontations of any kind before (which is a good thing). My boss is very much about getting this kind of training out to our guys/gals, and he's basically given me the green light to hold monthly training. That's my goal right now, is to start having training as often as possible, and basically make each session a building block for the next. It was a good time today, and I got through the sessions without any injuries, which is a huge bonus.

When I was able to do more Olympic lifting, I did the snatch some, but really like to do the clean & jerk. Basically, anything I could do overhead, I was trying to do it. I hadn't broken into doing any jerks yet, but I love to do the overhead lifts.

Chosun Yun Moo Kwan: "School for Martial Study." One of the Original Kwans founded after WWII but before the Korean War. Later became known as the Jidokwan, "Institute of Wisdom’s Way." The Chosun Yun Moo Kwan (or just Yun Moo Kwan, or possibly Yun Mu Kwan, more on this later), was founded as a Judo school in 1931 by Kyung Suk Lee, but things changed after the Korean War and the school was later re-established as the Ji Do Kwan. The Jidokwan became renowned for it’s excellence in sparring. Martial Heritage As mentioned above, the school was originally founded very early, in 1931, as a Judo school, by Kyung Suk Lee. The history of this school intrigues me deeply. Unfortunately, there just isn’t much to find on Kyung Suk Lee. What most sources seem to point to is that Sang Sap Chun (Chun, Sang-sap), who learned Karate and Judo while going to school in Japan, came home to Korea and joined the Yun Moo Kwan. Taekwondo Wiki states on Sang Sap Chun’s page that, "before the end of World War II Chun was approached by the head of the Yun Moo Kwan judo school and asked to teach karate there. He agreed, and also taught judo there." Taekwondo Wiki has a timeline on their site of the nine kwans, and on that timeline it stated that Sang Sap Chun "took over" the Yun Moo Kwan in 1946 (May 3, 1946 is noted in A Modern History of Taekwondo). His page on the same site denotes that he opened in another location, establishing the Yun Moo Kwan Kong So Do Bu, essentially a new branch of the Judo school. He apparently trained with his brother, Il Sup Chun, who later opened a branch of the school in 1947. This is very interesting to me; it appears that the early roots of this Kwan had both Karate and Judo to draw from, forming a very rich and well-rounded art for that time. If only it could have perpetuated that way… Unfortunately, Sang Sap Chun went missing after the Korean War, and not much more is established about him. The Wikipedia page stated that Sang learned Shotokan Karate while in Japan, but I saw on the Traditional Taekwondo Ramblings webpage that it is entirely possible that Sang could have learned Shudokan Karate from Toyama Kanken. Byung In Yoon and the Yun Moo Kwan According to the Yun Mu Kwan Wikipedia page, a man by the name of Byung In Yoon (Yoon Byung-In) shared teaching duties with Sang Sap Chun at the Yun Moo Kwan. Wikipedia has a page on Yoon Byung-In with lots of interesting stuff on it. It stated he was born in Manchuria, due to his father moving the family to China after his distillery started to falter during the Japanese occupation. His grandfather was a Korean noble. As a youth in Manchuria, Byung In Yoon studied Quan Fa under a Mongolian instructor "for an unspecified period of time." The page also states that it is believed that Yoon is one of the first Koreans to study Quan Fa and return to Korea to propagate it to others. He went to Tokyo, Japan, in late 1938 to university, and he took up Shudokan Karate under Toyama Kanken. The Wikipedia page goes on to state that eventually Yoon and Toyama exchanged training with each other; Yoon teaching Toyama the Quan Fa that he’d learned, while Toyama taught him Shudokan (although it was stated that Toyama had previously spent 7 years training Quan Fa in Taiwan). Yoon was eventually awarded a Master’s certificate and the rank of 4th dan by Toyama. In 1946, Byung In Yoon left the Yun Moo Kwan and founded his own school, the YMCA Kwon Bop Bu (or Kwon Bup Kong Soo Do). Unfortunately, Byung also went missing after the Korean War, leaving his Kwan up in the air. I delve into much more detail about Byung In Yoon in my article on the YMCA Kwon Bop Bu. This is even more interesting to me, in that it appears this early Kwan had instructors teaching that were influenced by Karate, Judo, and Quan Fa, forming a very rich Martial experience. In particular, I noted that there was no mention of a Taekkyon influence on any of these early instructors. In A Modern History of Taekwondo, the authors denote that between the mid 1950s and 1960s, many "Annex Kwans" sprang up in Korea, and the Yun Moo Kwan is one of these Annex Kwans listed. The Korean War happened from 1950-1953; Sang is missing after the Korean War, and the Kwan is renamed Jidokwan. So what is not really known is whether or not some former students of the original Yun Moo Kwan continued to perpetuate the style they learned from Sang prior to the Korean War and continued to carry the mantle of the original Yun Moo Kwan. Jidokwan A Modern History of Taekwondo states that Sang was kidnapped to North Korea during the Korean War, and thus the Yun Moo Kwan was abolished and it was renamed as the Jidokwan in 1953 by Kwe Byung Yoon and Chong Woo Lee (or Lee Chong Woo). Kwe Byung Yoon is said to have studied Shito-Ryu in 1940, first under Kenwa Mabuni, and later under Toyama Kanken. Kwe Byung Yoon had some interesting goings-on while he studied Karate in Japan. He was named president of the Kanbukan Dojo, which would pioneer bogutsuki karate and full contact karate (according to the Yun Kwe-Byung Wikipedia page). After the end of the World War II, various disciples of Shudokan tried to form a Karate school amidst the post-war martial arts ban enacted by GHQ. To get around restrictions, the students named the school Kanbukan ("Hall of Korean Martial Arts"), and named Yun Kwae-byung, who had special status as a third-country person in postwar Japan, as the head of the dojo. This allowed the members of dojo to practice Karate freely, as well as editorialize Karate booklets without unwanted attention from GHQ (taken from his Wikipedia page). In A Modern History of Taekwondo, it is stated that these two (Kwe Byung Yoon and Chong Woo Lee) ran the Jidokwan until 1967, at which point conflicts between the two arose due to the efforts to unify the Kwans. Chong Woo Lee planned to unify Jidokwan, but Kwe Byung Yoon, along with Hwang Kee, declined to unify. From what I’ve been able to find, Kwe Byung Yoon was basically ostracized from the Korean Martial Arts circles after this dust-up, which I find to be a really sad loss to the rich Martial roots of Korea. Kwe Byung Yoon’s legacy can still be seen, however, in the sparring of TKD. He is considered an innovator of jiyu kumite and is also credited for "hogu daeryon" ("sparring with protective armor") practice in Taekwondo (from his Wikipedia page). The Jidokwan went on to distinguish itself as a school that produced sparring excellence, and the school’s practitioners dominated the early tournament circuits as a result. Sihak Henry Cho, who penned the books Tae Kwon Do, Secrets of Korean Karate, and Korean Karate, Free Fighting Techniques, was a student of Kwe Byung Yoon’s, and from the Jidokwan. Interestingly enough, when I read the books, it appeared to me that the sparring style reflected in the books was that of the Karate style of sparring in which the goal is to score an ippon with one decisive technique, as opposed to the type of continuous TKD sparring we are used to seeing now in the Olympics. The Jidokwan, under the leadership of Chong Woo Lee, went on to unify with the other Kwans to form Taekwondo. In 1977, the Jidokwan agreed to recognize the Kukkiwon and WTF as the promotional body of the Taekwondo, and agreed to the black belt certification process and certificates. However, I did find a Jidokwan school website that went opposite the way of the unified Jidokwan. The rivervalleytkd.com/history-of-ji-do-kwan/ site page talks about their school’s founder, Choi Bong Young. Choi Bong Young came to the US in the 1960s, taught briefly in Ohio, and then moved out to the San Francisco Bay area. His instructor was Chong Woo Lee, and he has a dedication to his instructor in his book, The Way of Martial Art. The site goes on to say that Choi’s reluctance to adhere to the Kukkiwon methods seems at odds with his instructor’s views. The site mentioned that Choi may have been loyal to his teacher, but also spiritually adhered to the values of Kwe Byung Yoon. It also states that it’s possible that Choi didn’t know of Yoon’s values, and instead may have been following some other influences in deciding to keep the Jidokwan name. What I also found interesting on this website was mention of Choi’s three core values. One was that his brand of Jidokwan was not a competitive style. This seemed odd to me, considering how the Jidokwan established itself as a school of sparring excellence. I also found a website for the American Jidokwan Association, americanjidokwan.com. On their curriculum page, they present the Pal Gwe and WTF (or I guess now called WT) black belt forms, along with Tang Soo Do forms, and a set of Tae Guek forms that they state are not the WT Tae Guek forms, but instead are Korean versions of the Taikyoku series of forms. The site also denotes that it teaches Taekwondo and Tang Soo Do, but they are two different branches under the same federation. The association also states that it has a heavy focus on bunhae eungyong, or the practical analysis and applications of forms (or bunkai). The site also states that it is a branch of the World Taekwondo Jidokwan Federation, located in Seoul. The creator of the Tang Soo Do branch, William Sirbaugh, studied under Robert Moore and Curtis Herrington. Moore was a direct student of Kwe Byung Yoon at the Jidokwan when stationed in Korea in the military. Herrington was one of Moore’s first black belts, according to the site. Sirbaugh went on to later study Moo Duk Kwan (I’m guessing the TSD derivative), and Hankido later on, which he stated was more like Aikido than Hapkido. This branch is interesting, and it sounds like it has evolved much. The section the site has on Jidokwan Taekwondo states that after joining the Kukkiwon, the Jidokwan retained it’s identity while endorsing the Kukkiwon and competition under the WTF. "When the Kukkiwon was established, it was intended to be the international governing body providing a standard for Dan (Black Belt) certification but the Kwans were still very much in control of the training. However, over the last several decades the Kukkiwon has tried (successfully for the most part) to suppress the influence of the Kwans to become the sole source of Taekwondo, leading many to believe in their extinction or that they only exist as fraternal organizations." In the other sources I searched, they basically alluded to the fact that the Jidokwan was one of these "fraternal orders" at this point. It appears that this organization is refuting that statement, and continues to teach Jidokwan with it’s own curriculum and control over it’s own testing. Han Moo Kwan Apparently, there was some dissention among the students about the changes made in the curriculum during the transition from Yun Moo Kwan to Jidokwan. Losing a school owner/grandmaster like that could obviously cause some issues among a group of students scrambling for some leadership and direction. According to the Yun Mu Kwan Wikipedia page, Lee Kyo Yoon (Kyo Yoon Lee) was a practitioner who originally trained under Sang of the old Yun Mu Kwan. He initially began teaching Korean Karate under the Jidokwan banner at the end of the Korean War to fellow returning Chosun Yun Mu Kwan students. He subsequently left, and founded his own school, the Han Moo Kwan. In later years, Lee Kyo Yoon maintained that his school traced it’s roots back to the original Yun Mu Kwan, and not the Jidokwan. This is also corroborated in A Modern History of Taekwondo. I will be looking into the Han Moo Kwan more, and I’ll see if I can find enough information to put together a separate article on that Kwan. Yun Moo Kwan later on? According to the Wikipedia page, the names of Yun Moo Kwan or Yun Mu Kwan still linger on, especially in areas in Latin America. The Yun Mu Kwan Wikipedia page notes that in the 1950s, a man named Min Kyu Pai immigrated to New York City and settled near Chinatown. One of his students, Francisco Miranda, went on to popularize the art in his native country of El Salvador. If Min Kyu Pai came to the US and began teaching in the 1950s, then it’s possible that he trained in the Kwan when it was the Yun Moo Kwan, and either prior to or right up against the time it became the Jidokwan. Pai would seek out training from more senior Karate masters at the time, reportedly seeking out and training under Jhoon Rhee. Pai’s original school in New York City was called the Yun Mu Kwan Karate Institute (documented in an issue of Popular Science magazine in the late 1960s). Being established near the Chinatown district, Pai became deeply involved with a number of Chinese Martial Artists in the area. Thus, his teaching and practice began to absorb many of the Chinese concepts and techniques, and eventually began to change so much that by the 1970s, the style he was teaching became something entirely different than his original Yun Moo Kwan style. The evolution of a Martial Artist at work here. The most important influence on him at this time was Yang style t'ai chi ch'uan, and Pai had become a formal student of fourth generation Yang style T'ai Chi Ch'uan master Cheng Man-ch'ing. Apparently, some of his former students still practice and teach the original Yun Moo Kwan style Pai brought with him from Korea. It becomes difficult to determine if other schools using the name have an actual connection to the old Yun Moo Kwan, or if the old name was dug up and pinned on the side of a building for marketing reasons. This was a fun bit of research to do. I enjoyed it, and it took me down a lot of rabbit holes along the way. I am interested in whether or not the old Jidokwan actually perpetuates through some of these other organizations. I’m also interested in whether or not the Yun Moo Kwan perpetuates in any way. Lots of rich martial heritage.

Happy Half-Birthday KF! Danielle, you've been such a great member and moderator over the course of your 16 years here! This site is great because of members like you. Best of luck in your endeavors moving forward, and we look forward to still seeing you around the forums! Thanks to Patrick for providing a great environment for people to meet and share their experiences in! And to all the members here that stir up great conversation by sharing all their experiences. You all rock!

Hey all! Let's take some time today to wish our awesome administrator Happy Birthday! Have a great day, Patrick!

I've found over the years that the basic barbell exercises offer the most bang for the buck. They make everything stronger. The squat, bench press, press, and deadlift, primarily, along with power movements like the power clean and power snatch, if knees allow for these to be done. The main exercises provide an overall development in strength (which is an overall general physical adaptation that makes everything better). And they apply to everyday needs, too, and not just Martial Arts or other sports development.