bushido_man96

Its a good article, and written by a very knowledgeable Karateka, but I don't think it totally discounts the ability to use high kicks.

This was a reply I made to this comment by judobrah in this thread: http://www.karateforums.com/for-kyokushin-karatecas-video-vt43815-10.html I felt this topic deserved to have its own discussion thread. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this. i couldnt agree more,i hope one day i will get to compete in knockdown karate there are still good figthers with a karate backround in mma(like gsp,lyoto machida e.t.c),but whe dont see karate being that used,even too its proven it can be very effective Part of it has to be the desire of the Karateka's to want to compete, and then dedicate their training schedule to do so. Those who have, have altered their training to be more MMA'esque, and have basically dedicated the time needed to train in a competitive schedule. Its less basics and katas practice, and more sparring, pad work, bag work, conditioning, and then the added grappling element needed to compete. The main hindrance, in my opinion, is the lack of established MMA gyms by a Karate based coached. By and large, your MMA gyms are Thai/BJJ based, or some derivative therein. The secondary hindrance is that when many folks come into MMA gyms, they are competition driven, and the gyms are competition focused. You don't have customers coming into MMA gyms saying they want to earn their black belt in Karate before they start competing. So, if more dedicated Karatekas wanted to see competitors in MMA do things "the Karate way," then you'd be looking at a Karate school that teaches a Karate-based curriculum, holding gradings and moving the students through the ranks to black belt, and then perhaps to 2nd or 3rd dan,(because a 1st degree black belt just means they have the basics down), and then once they achieve a suitable rank, put them forth in the competition world. And that's assuming the Karate school has been able to provide the grappling background the competitors will need to survive a round in MMA competition. So, in order to see more "Karate style" MMA fighters, you have to either be content with the occasional arrival of a diamond in the rough like Machida, or some Karate schools are going to have to make some changes to the way they promote and train students in order to prepare them more efficiently for the MMA ring. That's my take, anyways. Thoughts?

I'm not sure I see what you mean here. Could you elaborate some, please?

That is really great! I am waiting for when my kids get interested in it enough to want to do it on their own, as opposed to force them. I think my middle son might be willing to give Aikido a try, but Wrestling season is rolling around, and he really enjoys that. As an instructor, I love seeing a group of juniors that are pumped to be in class, and really listen well to corrections and do their best to achieve their best.

I think that's the "heavy hips" thing. They get good at smushing you.

10/4/2012 AM session at home, 30 minutes. 10/5/2012 AM session at clinic, 45 minutes. Back to work today, whoo-hoo!

Its cool that they provided the opportunity, though. Hopefully we'll see more of that in the future.

I've been watching a bit of the sparring, and have been rather enjoying it. The gear used is basically what we used in my ATA days, although that has changed now. That's how I'd prefer to spar. The only bad thing about the head shots is you get some of those slug fest flurries going on, and it takes away from some of the kicking.

The only thing really required to compete in the Olympics is being a member of the WTF. And the hard core North Korean ITFers will not likely ever, ever decide to do that.A black belt I know in the ATA once competed at the Olympic training center in Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA for TKD competition, and won the Colorado state championship in his weight class. He was I think an ATA 3rd degree at the time, but paid WTF dues so he could compete. I'm sure there are some other requirements that need to be met that I'm not thinking of, black belt rank being one of them, but that's about the extent of it.

I agree with this. And I as well. Well said.

I don't listen too much right now, but anything with good beat, likely hard rock or such.

Agreed on all accounts. Breaking brings together focus, distancing, technique, speed, and power. It is a great way to evaluate a single technique. These are some great ideas to deal with the psychological aspect of getting over the boards. Thanks for sharing them! Sometimes, we'll draw some funny faces or something like that for the kids to focus on. I can think of some pictures of some people I'd like to tape to a board I'm going to break.... This is a very good exercise. The first time I did it was with one of my ATA instructors, and it was a great way to get everyone to focus on really good technique and targeting, and was a very inexpensive way to practice board breaking. Here here! That drives me bats, ESPECIALLY when I am the board holder. That's where confidence in technique comes in. Unless I have to make some serious adjustments to the holders, I line up once, then smash. And I know every holder appreciates it. When I was in the ATA, if we lined up and contacted the board on a practice technique, then that counted as an attempt, and we only got three attempts per station. I wish our school would do that, too.

No worries, judobrah. I didn't think you were being rude, and I apologize if I hadn't elaborated well enough initially. You are right about the child black belt being a touchy subject, too. Lots of opinions to look at there. Good point, BB of C. I didn't talk get too in depth on the topic at the time; everyone was ready to get home, and I didn't want to keep them while I rambled on for 15 to 20 minutes, as I easily could have. But, I don't think others enjoy the sound of my voice as much as I do... But, in regards the thoughts on power and technique, I agree with you. I think what your Kuk Sool Won instructors may have been trying to accomplish is to teach technique first, and then add power, so that as a new student one doesn't try to hit hard by sacrificing technique. But, like you say, I think they go hand in hand, and it is important to bring both aspects around in a fairly simultaneous fashion. I kind of have a theory or equation that I try to relate to those who start breaking boards. I tell them technique will get them one board, power will get another, and when you can bring your technique together with speed to generate power, then the sky's the limit. I haven't really had a way to test this yet, but I use it to try to calm their minds when they get wound up about breaking their boards or not. If their technique is sound, and they are confident in it, and they do a board break technique the same way they practice their basic technique, then they shouldn't have too much to worry about when approaching a break. And if their technique is sound, then they should be able to add a bit of speed or power to it to get a bit more oomph for breaking a second or third board. I can understand your consternation in discovering you were doing something right that another told you was wrong. Frustrating, to be sure. That's why when I've been doing something for as long as I have, and someone else comes along and says "no, no, do it this way," I will gladly listen to their advise, try things out the different way, and then try to make my own informed decision. Your last statement that I highlighted in bold, I totally agree with. That's why I told the students that we really harp on them as instructors during basics. Every technique they do should be "kyuk-pa," or the term for "break" in Korean.

If it were me, I don't think I would, but not because I really have anything against the idea. I just don't think I would do it.

Ok, I agree that the ITF one was lots better.

I don't know how often the sheepdogs become wolves, and I'm not saying it doesn't happen. What I am more inclined to believe is that those that appear to become wolves have always been wolves, but have been able to either hide their true side, or do a profession that allows their wolf side to come out in order to slake their thirst from time to time with no one the wiser. But, I think by and large that when something like that is seen, its one of those cases that its blown up to the point that makes it appear to happen at a greater percentage than it really does.

You are right, boards don't hit back. But a makiwara doesn't either, but their usage is hardly ever discounted as a verifiable beneficial MA experience. Or the wooden dummy of Kung Fu. I don't hold it against any style that doesn't break boards, and I do think the choice has a lot to do with the philosophy of the style or instructor. A lot of styles don't incorporate board breaking, like MMA, Boxing, and like your style, and that doesn't mean that the practitioners thereof can't demonstrate the power of their techniques. They most certainly can. But, I do think board breaking is a good way to demonstrate power, focus, and technique, and is great for higher rank requirements in showing the development of power in techniques.

It wasn't a "kids black belt testing;" we had a testing, and one of our kids was testing for black belt. She had to demonstrate all the forms for each belt level up to hers, all one-step requirements, sparring, plus her black belt form and basics, and board breaks. The same requirements for our adults that test for black belt. The only difference is her age. I apologize if I was confusing in my initial post on that matter. We don't have different standards for kids or adults in our style. All requirements are the same, kid or adult, for each of the ranks. So, I don't see anything wrong with an 11 year old testing for her black belt. She has been with our school since she was 5 or 6 I think. She did a great job at the testing, her technique looked great, and the only thing I could think to coax out of her would have been just a bit more power and speed. Aside from that, the point I was trying to make was in regards to board breaking, and teaching students how to become more comfortable with board breaking. I save the "black belt kids" subject for a different thread.

Yep, pretty much. But, does it hurt or help a cause? What do you think?

Nice. Definitely worth checking out. Thanks for sharing it.

Our experience in board breaking isn't to the extreme. The idea behind the breaking requirements for testings is to demonstrate power and technique, and not necessarily to see who can chop the most firewood. Our view on breaking is that its a display of the power of a technique. Its not necessarily the best way to do it, but between the display of basics, forms, one-steps, sparring, and breaking, it provides a good cross-section, in my opinion. I'll bet it was fun watching that world record attempt. Those guys are definitely talented!

Cool vid, Danielle! Thanks for that. I love the breaking sequences, and seeing all that wood flying. I liked that power break of the 360 roundhouse, too; very cool. The last few were really cool and impressive athletic feats. Which demo team did you enjoy more, the ITF or the WTF?

My instructor had me set on a testing panel just last week, and we had a few brown belts and a black belt kid testing, all of whom had to break boards for their testing requirements. They did a good job, and our black belt girl even broke two of the kids boards on her side kicks. But, as the instructor had the holders set up for 2 boards on the breaks, I saw the girls eyes kind of widen, and it got me to thinking about the board breaking in general, as it tends to be one of the areas of testings that is of the most concern to many students. I watch the students do their forms, one-steps, and sparring during the testing, and see consistency in their techniques for the most part, as far as power, speed, and focus goes. But when its time to line up for board breaks, everything changes for them. They spend anywhere from 5 to 10 reps lining up a side kick, and then when they go to kick it, they fidget and change things, either trying to kick harder than usual to get the break, or stop the technique upon reaching the board, before going through it. So seeing all this, I decided to use the opportunity afforded me at the end of testing to address the students: "Board breaking isn't about the boards. Its about the technique." I went on to elaborate that just because a board goes up in front of you that you don't need to do anything differently. Just do the same kick you always do. If you work and focus on your techniques like you are supposed to all throughout the basics, forms, and one-steps portions of the class, then when it comes time to do a break, you should be golden. I also told them that is why we as instructors constantly hound them on technique during basics and forms; don't shrimp on it, because if you do, it will show up sooner or later. Now, when I discuss breaking, its in the scope of our testing requirements, which is rarely more than two boards at a time, except for at 3rd dan levels, where one has to be a power break of 3. So, I'm not talking in regards to the kind of extreme breaking seen in contests and the like. But, even in those situations, it all starts with proper technique, then the toughening, callousing, and extra power need all fall in place after that. I'd love to hear the thoughts, experiences, and teaching ideas behind everyone else on board, as well!

Not according to my wife sometimes....

This is something the ATA has done in the past for folks like Bill Clinton (who being in office in Arkansas, and that being the HQ location of the ATA had some affect), Jaleel White (Erckel), Penny Hardaway (former NBA player), etc. The idea behind the honorary black belt was that it showed that the person awarded such was recognized as the "black belt equivalent" in their chosen profession. Perhaps the person showed or provided something else to the organization rewarding it, as well, and was done as a show of thanks. I don't think its a bad thing. Cooperation and publicity can be good things for a style that may be reaching out to kids, and bringing in celebrities the kids recognize brings in another form of attachment for what they are doing. It can be the same for adults, too. It just has to all be kept in context. They aren't earning an actual black belt. Could they do some other certificate of acknowledgement or something? Probably. Either way, who and what does it really hurt?