bushido_man96

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I agree, jaypo, that training the mental preparation aspect of it is just as important, and can be the more difficult aspect of the training. You can give someone all the techniques in the world, but at the end of the day, if they are a sheep, they are a sheep. Training the mental aspect of it has to start early on, as well, along with the techniques.

I tend to agree with Alex on this issue. It should not take a lot of years or time in to learn how to begin defending yourself effectively. That is not to say that the study of any Martial Art shouldn't be a lifelong journey; I think we all appreciate the fact that it is a lifelong journey. But learning to defend oneself should start on day one, and it should continue throughout.

1/27/2014 Taught TKD: 6:00 - 7:30 pm. Its a testing week, so I hit basics hard, got some good forms work in, covered one-steps to make sure there were no questions there, and then for sparring, I did several rounds of one-technique back and forth, then 2-technique, then 3-technique, and ended with a round of testing sparring.

I'd enjoy the TKD Olympic style sparring more, without the pads and chest protectors. I think it would be a lot better that way.

Its the convenience of the name. I'm not claiming that kata is not a concept. But, when I say "kata training," just about everyone knows what I am talking about, or has a view in their mind of what it is, and what it may or may not entail. I agree. I have around 20 patterns to learn, and our school doesn't work any patterns applications. Its actually a rather new and rather highly disputed activity in most TKD circles, training TKD patterns in the kata concept of bunkai. Some question whether that was the goal or not for TKD patterns; as far as I'm concerned, its not whether or not it was the goal, but if it can be a verifiable and effective way to train with them. That's a matter for another thread. But with that said, I do agree that too much time is spent on forms work, and not enough time on partner work, and I feel that most of this is due to the nature of the curriculum in Martial styles that utilize forms work. To the bold above; you may disagree, but it does appear which kata you learn depends on your rank. My question is, which is the first kata you learned, and do you go back to it often, and do you think it is enough? As for your comments on the maturity in progression of kata, I feel that the parner concept training really works off of a similar model, but is based more off of strategies and tactics to apply, as opposed to the different moves taught in kata applications. I think they are similar in regards here, but the partner training concpets allows for a quicker ability in learning to apply the concepts.

Its not wrong, Bob. Its just that there appears to be a couple of different view points on the issue, which is ok. So, for the sake of discussion here, lets flip the terminology a bit. It is clear that you don't like the idea of someone self-appointing their rank. But what about self-appointing a title, like in your type of heirarchy, which has titles that may not be necessarily tied to rank? Would you view this the same as self-appointing rank, or different?

So, in your one-step sparring, your attacker doesn't start from the downblock position? Interesting. I like that. I've never done this before, but I remember reading about it in Choi's encyclopedia in regards to training for sparring. Its basically a pre-set sparring set, isn't it? I do see the value in this training as a step in "ramping up" step sparring training. I did, on how I felt that it should evolve from the more basic motions and learning to read and react to attacks, to more active self-defense scenarios. Shameless plug here: Step-Sparring and Self Defense I am in agreement here. I feel that it is important to introduce resistance with step-sparring as time goes on, in order to be able to learn how to react to the chaos of combat. To the bold, I agree, it is a very important way to train. I would even go a step further and add an element to it by having the defender start out in a "fence" position, working a scenario where the defender attempts to de-escalate, and then defends if needed based on the actions of the attacker.

MA has been around every since societal groups and civilizations have been organizing groups (armies) to protect their land, family, property, etc. There have always been fueding factions amongst the human race, and therefore, the need to oganize and fight have been necessary. Its likely going to be a geneology that will never be fully traced. There has been a claim for some time that Kalirpayatu is the forerunner of modern Martial Arts, but that claim is tenuous at best. Suffice it to say that most early cultures had some weapons that they trained and used to defend their lands with, and they likely organized at times into groups to defend themselves against other hositle groups, and the Martial Arts were born.

How so?? Well why do you need to be a nidan? Or a sandan? Or a kudan? Why not just a Blackbelt? It is a tool to distinguish you from him or from her. That you are Bill's senior but Bob's junior. Early on rank is an identifier so your instructor and others can gauge your progress on a curriculum but when you are training for training's sake why do you need to be promoted further. IMHO it's to maintain that hierarchy so that both the rank holder and their peers know where within that hierarchy they fall. I don't need to be anything except a student of the MA. Those type of things are there, and were there before I came onto the MA picture. I am what I am, but it's not because of something that I did beyond my training. No one falls into the hierarchy, they're selected via an established voting proxy. Not everyone is of the hierarchy!! We use the word "hierarchy" within Shindokan circles to only note whom lies within the Administrative Chain of Command, and not within the ranks, as you're viewing it. It's an unfamiliar term for me to see rank as you're explaining it. Before I was elected into the old Board of Regents, I was NOT part of the hierarchy, nor was I privy to anything Administrative and the like. When I speak here at KF and I use the word "hierarchy", I've always been referring to those members, those chosen few, that are part of the Administration and the like. Ok...I've babbled enough...sorry! It's seems as though you use the word "hierarchy" within Shindokan to refer to something specific? In the strictest sense of the word, everyone who wears belts is part of a hierarchy whether they want to be or not. Taking this definition: (n) a system in which members of an organization or society are ranked according to relative status or authority Belt ranking seems to fit into this pretty well. Once getting the next belt stops opening up a new part of the curriculum for you, why do you ever need to be promoted again? To the bold type above... I refer to something specific, because it is specific within the Hombu! Not my rule, but the established rule as set by our Soke!! Our hierarchy is the recognized authority within our Hombu and the SKKA. Our ranks are NOT part of OUR hierarchy, and not all, but very few, are nominated/elected to be appointed to that status from our specific ranks. It's OUR way!! Not the way of others!! I see what Danielle is saying, and it does fit into our discussion here. By and large, many of the organizations we are a part of have a hierarchy that is determined for the most part by the rank of those in the organization. The head of an organziation is usually the highest rank of that organization (usually). And we have also determined through the course of our discussion that most people who do promote themselves are likely doing so in order to move up in some hierarchy, whether it be their own or somebody elses.

Congrats on this accomplishment. What exactly is this black belt club, how do they differentiate between the other students, and what do you do as a black belt club member?

Super Bowl 48 is set! Seattle Seahawks vs Denver Broncos. Who do you got? By my very nature, I cannot root for Denver, so go Seahawks! Seattle was an AFC west team at one time, too.

I understand that he has a black belt in Judo, as well. I enjoyed watching both when I was younger, and still do. I'd probably lean towards Chuck.

I agree that it tends to be an old-school mentality. I don't think its the case that it should take years and years to develop an ability to defend oneself successfully. Nor do I think one should stop developing said skill over the course of the years. But I think it can come sooner than what Cho feels is the case.

Half-swording was a much used tactic, and probably safer than one would realize.

The only issue I have with this concept is that kata have become a tool used in curriculum to determine rank. The first form I was taught was the ATA white belt form, Songham 1. In the TTA, it was Chon Ji. These are white belt forms, and as such, although may have many applications, they may not cover it all. In the past, forms weren't taught according to rank. But it is, now.

I agree, and this is another concern that those who participate in styles like Wrestling and Boxing don't have to worry about.

Bob, when you do your bunkai and oyo bunkai, do you ever present it in a step-sparring fashion, like what Danielle alluded to in applying forms applications?

What I do like about it is, at Blackbelt level, because you don't know what your partner is going to do, you have to learn to get really good at reading the signs. Broadly I tell students to classify attacks into: - straight, such as front punches, front strikes etc. - outward, anything coming across the body like a knifehand side strike, back fist - inward, such as ridge hands, swinging haymaker type punches - downward, downward strikes, getting hit with a beer bottle or something - miscellaneous Roughly speaking you can usually tell which class the attack will fall into based on how they shift their weight and start to move their hips/body. This gives you a split second heads up to start your block or evasion or whatever and then react further enroute. But if in doubt, always dodge. I like your classifications, and working towards learning the tells the body makes when attacking. When you do your higher ranking step sparring, do you do it all from the typical down block, front stance starting position, or do you change it up? One thing I did like Sang H. Kim's book Taekwondo Step Sparring is that for more advanced step-sparring, he shows the use of sparring stances as opposed to the down block/front stance typically used.

Great points, Danielle, and great descriptions of how your step-sparring training changes as rank goes up. I also like the different styles, as in block counter, evade counter, and intercepting. Very nice, and a very good program that builds. That's how I'd like to do it. I also like how you use it to break apart the material learned in the forms. It would make it fun to pick apart and apply the moves, as is, in the patterns.

I think you make a good differentiation between the two, Danielle. Solid points.

Great responses, Bob. Thanks for the reply!

This topic is another that sprouted from a passage I read in Grandmaster Hee Il Cho's book, The Complete One and Three Step Sparring: The emphasis is on the word use is Cho's. A few things I agree with here: continual practice, yes, and mental fortitude, yes. But, I don't think that learning self-defense necessarily takes as long as it does to actually master the physical aspects of the techniques. I think it should all come along together. Cho goes on to say: He goes on to point out that this exposure to sparring helps students to get over their fear of physical confrontations, which I tend to agree with. However, in the class room, sparring is much different than the approach will be in self-defense, and sparring helps more if it is geared more towards what self-defense will be like, and less like point sparring. So, some things I think he hits on the head, and others, I think are off base a bit. What are your thoughts on this approach?

Welcome to KF!

That's a cool honor. Congrats! Where it with pride!