bushido_man96

Thanks for this review. I know that nutrition is a point in my life that I fall short in, as I'm sure many others do. This sounds like a good read for the serious Martial Artist.

I think that finding a different school might be the way to go. You can try to approach him and let him know that you have no interest in anything outside of a professional relationship, but in the end, this may make things uncomfortable, especially if he doesn't let up. I think the best idea is to walk away, and find a different place to train.

I agree with this, 100%. I learned from an early age from my dad, but, not for very long. I eventually joined a school, and it went from there. If my kids ever decide they want do TKD with me, I'll bring them in. But I won't make them do it. I have both of my boys in Wrestling, and I help them there as much as possible (probably too much at times), but its their thing, while TKD is my thing.

Great advise here so far. Keep things moving, keep it fun, and I wouldn't go for an hour with that young an age. Around 30 - 45 minutes is where you will see good attention out of that age group. This gives you enough time to do around 3 drills that focus on the topic of the day.

That's a good point, Bob. Also important to stance training is the transitioning from stance to stance. Make sure not to just sit in stances and work them. Move from stance to stance to get the feel for how to do so smoothly and comfortably.

Aha...Thanks, Brian. I'll look for that much closer!! Thanks, Bob. This weekend, we will be in Dodge City for Gun Smoke Nationals. It looks like Kendall only has 3 in his bracket, and one is a national placer. But Kenneth is in a novice division with 7 wrestlers. So it should be a fun day!Ok, here is Kenneth's next tournament, the Ellis Novice, 01/18/2015. Match 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nrsvD1xfag I think Kenneth wrestled this kid once before, but lost. He opens up with a tackle for a takedown, but once down, he has trouble keeping his weight on top and holding them down, so they tend to get up rather easy. You will have to excuse the shaky video, Kendall was the filmographer on this expedition. You can here is coaching commentary, as well. I wonder who he gets that from, anyway. Anyway, he rolls around most of the first period, but keeps fighting through it, and manages to do some rolling to keep from getting pinned. He starts the 2nd period with a takedown attempt, but instead of shooting, he bends over and grabs for the knee, which doesn't work out well for him. He fights off another pin attempt, and does eventually reverse, but he keeps a funny hold on the kid, and doesn't really get into good position. He starts 3rd period on bottom, and his stand-up attempt gets stifled, but the kid pulls him down onto him, and if he would turn into him, he would probably start getting some points, but he's still figuring it all out. He does eventually get free, but gets into just grabbing and pulling the kid, onto him, instead of pushing and driving. Towards the very end of the match, he gets pinned. The upside, though, is that he did score some points, and kept moving for the most part. Score was 9-13 before the pin. Match 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjE8Hh6ni5w He gets taken down early, and fights off a pin. He bellied out some off the takedown, but not enough, and gave up the back points. After he got rolled over with the half-Nelson, I don't know how he wasn't pinned sooner, but it took a while for them to call it. Still learning. Match 3: Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dusBC9t8QJc Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9bN6KYRQUQ This one was pretty quick, but this little guy was pretty darn good. Aggressive, and pretty good with his body positioning, too. Once on his back, he didn't try to fight it off at all. After the pin, they started again, with pretty much the same result. But, after all said and done, they did give him a 4th place medal.

It would be like training wall sits for an extended period of time. If you do that, guage it off that. Some stances will be more taxing, as well. A sitting stance will hit both legs well, where a back stance will focus on one leg more. Play with a timer and see how you do.

NOTE: if you go back to page 3, I've added Jee Sang to the list of forms for 4th gup discussion, if you are interested in see that form. I also added in Taegeuk 2 on the 2nd gup discussion...I didn't realize I had left it out... So, just an update here, I've been spending the last month or so practicing all 4 of the white belt forms here, Chon Ji, Taegeuk and Palgwe 1, and Songham 1 (and reviewing the one-steps). Here are some observations I have so far.... 1. Very few of my forms end on the same spot. Songham 1 is very close. Palgwe 1 gets close, but Chon Ji is off some, but I don't do any footwork adjustment; I just step from stance to stance. Taegeuk 1 doesn't even get close to being on the same spot. I think it must have something to do with the walking stances. I think I make them too long and too wide. 2. I don't like the walking stances. I think I make them too long and wide, and if I narrow them up, I don't feel like I have a very comfortable base. But I am going to try to focus on this more now.

I think I recall reading about this in Gillis' book, A Killing Art. So much going on there, its really too bad that some forms actually got caught up in that mess. But, it gives more forms for me to look at, so I'm the winner! I thought the kick looked pretty good, Danielle. You made good contact to break both boards, so kudos to you! Yours looked like a good split, too. Mine won't look near that good. It will look more like a side kick to one side, with a trail leg to the other. Can you do full side splits to get that extension?

Everyone's got different ideas on bunkai, so it just depends on the practitioner and instructors. If you are looking for some resources to start with, here are a few I like: Bunkai-Jutsu: The Practical Application of Karate Kata, by Iain Abernethy: http://www.amazon.com/Bunkai-Jutsu-Practical-Application-Karate-Kata-ebook/dp/B00A79N8OO/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1423767286&sr=1-1&keywords=bunkai+jutsu The Way of Kata: A Comprehensive Guide to Deciphering Martial Arts Applications, by Lawrence A. Kane and Kris Wilder: http://www.amazon.com/Way-Kata-Comprehensive-Deciphering-Applications/dp/1594390584/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1423767407&sr=1-1&keywords=The+Way+Of+Kata Abernethy's work is more specific, showing particular applications to particular moves that he teaches from the kata's he practices. Kane and Wilder's work is more of a book on guiding principles to follow to help you "find" the best applications you can to the moves in your kata's, whatever they may be.

Bob, I post up the bracket of the tournament the boys are doing that day. It just depends on which one you saw, I guess. I take a picture of the bracket and post it, and then give updates throughout the day.

We were working this the other day, and a guy I was working with kept getting his feet wrapped up underneath me when he would reverse, like he was still in a guard or something. I wasn't sure what he was doing wrong. Any thoughts on that? I didn't seem to be having that problem.

Looks like a good book, Danielle. I do enjoy reading Kane and Wilder, and none of their works have disappointed me yet. I will keep this one in mind, as well. Sounds like a must-read for any instructor. I recently finished the book Taekwondo Poomsae: The Fighting Scrolls, by Kingsley Umoh. This book was a bit, different, for my tastes. Its published by Strategic Book Publishing & Rights Co, which is one I've not heard of, but, I don't mind trying something out that looks a bit different. I caught wind of this book after reading an article in TotallyTKD Magazine by this same author, and thought I would check out his book. He uses some different writing styles throughout the book, some in a story telling mode, others in a more factual and research type mode, so it can seem kind of random at times. He starts out with chapters on Yin and Yang (Um/Yang in Korean) philosophies, and relates this into the way the applications of the Taegeuk and Palgwe forms work, according to his study. Chapters 3-5 focus on Taegeuk and Palgwe forms applications, with interesting comparison and contrasts for the opposing Taegeuks or Palgwe forms. For example, chapter 3 poses the self-defense question, "Response to an attack from the front," and then presents applications. If he uses applications from Taegeuk Il Jang, he poses an application for the opposite form on the Taegeuk, Taegeuk Pal Jang. One application he refers to as Um/Yin, and the other as Yang. Its an interesting take on the approach. After these initial chapters, things get different, at least to me. Chapters 6 and 7 are on Taoist Ki Energy Theory, and Modern Ki Energy Theory, respectively. From there, he goes into the black belt forms, and delves even more deeply into Ki energy, talking about drawing it in, storing it, etc. Kingsley is a medical doctor, and it appears that in this book, he tries to use his medical knowledge to justify the existence of ki energy, and how it is used, stored, and strengthened. When he gets into the black belt forms, each chapter seems to have a different approach and subject in the matter of ki energy usage, and I have to admit that it got tough for me to keep reading through it. I just don't buy into the ki energy thought process he presents in the book, but I am sure there are some practitioners out there that would really like to delve into it. The author has various drawings throughout the work, but I see no sources for them, so I think they are his own work. He does draw up quite a bit of anatomy along with his ki discussions, but I know so little about it that I don't know what to think about them, let alone offer an opinion. Now, the applications themselves, are interesting studies. It will be interesting to work with some of them. They take a different approach than the application of the Taegeuk forms undertaken by Simon O'Neill in The Taegeuk Cipher, so if you would like a different take on some applications, its a good source to look into for variety. He also includes Palgwe applications, the first of which I've seen in any book. Unfortunately, the pictures are small, like they are in O'Neill's work, making interpretation a bit difficult. The descriptions of the applications can be somewhat vague at times, as well, but the move count he uses for the forms matches those I've seen in manuals I have, such as Lee/Kim's Complete Taekwondo Poomsae. If you are not a WTF student, then having a resource such as this to refer the forms can be helpful when deciphering what the pictures are getting at. This book is a toss-up. I guess it depends on what you like to read about. If you are looking for a source that really gets into some of the Taegeuk philosophy, and the channeling of ki energy, then you may enjoy this book. If you want some application ideas to work with, then this will help get you started. If you don't like what you see in the book, it will at least get you thinking about how and what you would do differently, which is a good thing, for sure, for anyone's training. I think the quality of the book could have been a bit better, and the obscure publishing company name may raise some eyebrows as to the quality of the work. I say, check it out for yourself, and make your own judgments about it. http://www.amazon.com/Taekwondo-Poomsae-Fighting-Philosophy-Applications/dp/1612048013/ref=sr_1_sc_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1423766140&sr=8-3-spell&keywords=The+Taeguek+Cipher

02/09/2015 TKD Workout: Chon Ji, Palgwe 1, Taeguek 1, Songham 1, in that order, 6x each. Wrestling: 6:00 - 7:00 pm. Worked on taking shots with double leg takedowns. Used holding the wrist to shoot, and also holding the wrists and circling to get an angle, then shoot. Mainly, holding the wrists is to stay close and shoot in close. After some reps, worked live Wrestling once the designated Wrestler shot his takedown. Then worked on stand-ups, then added in quick circling steps to takedown after stand-up.

Thanks for sharing that clip. Some of those I like, and some I wonder, but they are all worth exploring. That guy is quick! Some quick notes here for all you members that are so graciously following my ramblings in this thread... First, thanks for reading and coming along so far! I'm really enjoying it, even though it seems a bit out of order at times. I'm loving the feedback, and want as much as you can throw in here! Second, I plan to fill in on the other GTF color belt patterns, Jee Sang and Dhan Goon, when I get time to read them over a bit to go along with the videos. I'll let you know when that happens, and will go back to edit the appropriate threads. Third, this is mainly to kind of clear up the rank order that my current association uses, and perhaps a bit of a reason why. In appendix ii of Stuart Anslow's The Encyclopedia of Taekwon-do Patterns, there is a chart that shows the pattern orders of various TKD organizations. Our association parallels that of GM Hee, Il Cho's AIMAA: AIMAA TTA Chon Ji Chon Ji Dan Gun Dan Gun Do San Bo Chung Won Hyo Do San Yul Gok Won Hyo Joong Gun Yul Gok Toi Gye Joong Gun Hwa Rang Toi Gye Choong Moo Hwa Rang Kwang Gae Choong Moo That ends the gup order for each of ours. Then starts black belt. Po Eun Kwang Gae.....1st dan Ge Baek Poe Eun..........2nd dan (recommended for TTA) Yoo Sin Ge Baek.........3rd dan (2nd dan for TTA) Choong Jang, Ul Ji Se Jong.........4th dan (3rd recommended for TTA) Ko Dang, Sam Il Yoo Sin.........5th dan (3rd dan for TTA) This is not the exhaustive list, but goes up close to my level. I do Choong Jang at 4th dan, and I think 5th dan form is Choi Yong. Thanks so far, everyone!

When I did TKD this was the highest form...once 2nd Dan we did Gae Bek, Choong Jang, and Se Jong. I'd put it at or near the top for difficulty in the ITF forms set. I'd have to agree. Very tough. Between that one and Jook Am, I'm not sure I will survive 2nd dan forms practice!

I don't think there is an official order. Just that you have to learn all 3 before you grade. In the Encyclopedia it gives the order as Kwang Gae, Po Eun then Ge Baek but we generally don't follow this order. Usually we tend to do Kwang Gae first as it's nice and symmetrical, then Ge Baek, then Po Eun. I wouldn't spend months getting it down, I think it's better to just learn the diagram then work on the technicalities of all three together as there is a lot of crossover. The other consideration we have, is that in ITF pattern competition you typically perform a choice form (chosen from the 3 from your grade) then get designated one which can be anything up to and including your grade. So if you want to compete you gave to at least be able to get through the pattern. I see. I didn't think about the competition aspect of it, but that makes sense. If the students are going to compete, they have to be on their game with all their forms, which is a good thing. Did you learn them in that order, or did you do bits of pieces of each? I didn't realize the amount of time that was expected to stay in the crane stance. When it comes time to focus on this form, I will keep it in mind. I find it an interesting coincidence that this 2nd dan form and the ATA's 2nd dan form have these similar balancing moves in common.

Having competed at the equivalent level in ITF, and having friends that also do, if we've ever wanted to make the Olympic team we had to swap styles. For London 2012 Team GB ran a programme to take ITF fighters (and kick boxers etc.), train them up, give them a blackbelt and put them on the squad. I had a few friends go through the process. Think they're doing the same for Rio next year. To me, its seems foolish to have to do this with the ITF stylists. If they will start accepting their rank, then this should make the transition easier for them to compete. This is just good for TKD in general.

Kendall's third tourney of 2014/2015 season, the Ellis Open at Ellis, KS, 01/17/2015. Match 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASgIRkb_cyQ Not much to this one. This was a kid in our club that doesn't have a lot of experience yet. I told Kendall that if he wanted to try to work with him a bit, that he could do so, but he really isn't quite sure how to "work" with someone in a match. He did let the kid roll to his stomach once, and I thought he might just work with him during the match, but he pinned him the second time he got him over. I'm not sure what he was doing on that takedown attempt.... Match 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUxkzEVe2Sk Coach wanted Kendall to try to work some different things with this match, and mentioned to him that he wanted him to try to work some cradles so he could start getting the feel of them in the match. Kendall wasn't sure how to really try to do that, either, though. His takedowns start from too far away sometimes, and he also has a bad habit of diving instead of keeping good posture and getting his hips in with his head up at their hip or side, so he ends up getting sprawled on a lot. Fortunately, he has since learned some moves that can help him turn that situation around for him, if he can start applying them. He reversed his position, though, and got the kid turned over, but had trouble holding him down. He starts 2nd period on bottom, and runs a switch, which he is really good at, accept when he reaches over the top instead of under to the leg. It nearly got him caught here, too. What bugs the crap out of me is that he knows that, but just lets himself get sloppy at times. You see him do some kind of elbow roll on the kid to reverse, which he has been doing a lot of lately, but it seems to me like he won't be able to hit that against more skilled opponents, and it worries me because it just will put himself on his back. At right around 2:00, he was in a position that he could have tried to set an inside cradle, but he just wasn't seeing it, and kept trying to bull the kid over. He finally did solidify his positioning to get the pin. Match 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj0yiXFORtU This was a tough one. These last two opponents were both kids Kendall had competed against before, so he had some familiarity with them. This kid, for some reason, Kendall seemed to go more animalistic on, instead of being technical. For some reason, he could hold this kid down, either. I think he is not keeping good pressure once he starts riding, for some reason. He could get a takedown, but then couldn't seem to hold it. He also kept trying to run a half-Nelson when the kid would stand up, and it just doesn't work. He starts period 2 on the bottom....and does that elbow roll instead of a switch or stand-up. He got away with it, but it looked sloppy, and like it nearly put him on his back. He is also reaching over WAT too much, and I think we've cleaned it up some since then. He is leading going into the 3rd period, 8-2, and starts on bottom again. He hits that roll again, a little cleaner this time, and gets the reversal. You also see here where his conditioning is a bit lacking, cause he complains of being tired and out of air. He finally gets the kid over on his back, and gets a pin just before time runs out. But, this was a pretty sloppy match for him, and coach told him he got so tired because he was trying to muscle everything, instead of being technical. He learned a lesson from it, for sure. He finished up 3-0, and got first place.

I agree. I find getting up to the hand to be the hard part. I think I just need to make sure to take things slow and smooth when I transition, and not worry about having to get there right away.

Very cool stuff. Not that its the same thing, but I see some parallels there to some Wrestling techniques my oldest son has been doing lately, the chicken wing/single wrist, and the double chicken wing. They aren't chokes, and they start with the opponent laying on their belly. But, once he sets the technique, he turns his body in that same circular motion, and winds up with his body in that same north/south position, pinning the opponent: Different moves, but similar positional ideas. The way the coach taught at practice the other night, the kids were ending pretty much north/south, not as far over the other arm like this guy did. I enjoyed the recap, especially seeing the two ideas. Your friend's method of really messing up the gi is a cool approach, and one I didn't really think of as being done intentionally. Great recap!

I've experienced kakie with sensei8, and I think it has merits. I haven't really done it since, but, I have done some drills very similar to the idea of it, but from different start points, so to speak. One example is what we used to do in Combat Hapkido when we would work trapping drills. We would do straight line hi/low drills, where the hand is thrust straight out as a strike, and the other thrusts the hand straight towards it to defend, at the wrists, while using head movement for defense as well. There are also some circular attack and flow versions, shown here: Its a brush/trap/strike drill, and it can be done with flowing back and forth with the partner, so both get lots of reps. It can also be fairly free-flowing, making your defenses in various portions of the movements. My old DT partner that uses the Close Quarters Combatives system also has a drill similar to that in it, called the block/pass/pin drill: It can be done with straight attacks or circular attacks, and you can do "inserts" at any point along the chain as counters. Those are a few different ideas of how I've used the drill.

Thanks for the review, Danielle. I've not read much of Sprague's material, but I have read The Art of War, but only once. I do enjoy some history, and I had not heard of Clausewitz before, but it sounds like his works are worth looking into. This point gives me pause: This is just kind of discouraging, and whenever I see points made about TKD like this, I find myself sighing and rolling my eyes. The cat is pretty much out of the bag when it comes to TKD's history, so there isn't much point in continuing with the older versions. Other than that, though, it sounds like the book would be an interesting read, if not for the compare and contrast of East and West. Thanks for the review!

That's what this log is all about! Keep track of what you do, and log and improve. Its also to provide training ideas or methods that others use. Glad you're in here! 01/29/2015 Wrestling: 6:00 - 7:00 pm. Worked stand-ups, single and double leg takedowns. In Kendall's practice, they worked on some moves to get out of bad spots, and on the tilt for scoring points. 02/02/2015 Warm-up with Chon Ji, Palgwe 1, Taeguek 1, Songham 1, and ATA and TTA white belt one-steps. Defensive Tactics Club: 1:30 - 2:45 pm. Kimura from guard, to blocking Kimura and hip bump sweep, then to full mount reversal to arm bar. Also worked on 2 head lock defenses, one version stepping around to the front and dropping and rolling them over, and the second with the attacker in a wider base, stepping through his legs to sit down, scooping the inside leg with the inside hand and rolling them over to mount. From there, we finished with strikes and got up, or went to an arm bar. Wrestling: 6:00 - 7:00 pm. Kids did lots of live wrestling, focusing on stances in neutral position. Then they alternated top/bottom position, and did relays for conditioning at the end. 02/08/2015 TKD Workout: Chon Ji, Palgwe 1, Taeguek 1, Songham 1, 4x each. ATA/TTA white belt one-steps, through each one once.

Ok, 2nd dan forms, which will be a gauntlet. I'm not sure my body can do all these crazy forms, but I will eventually be trying, so here goes nothing! ITF 2nd dan Tuls: Eui Am: Choong Jang: Juche: Ko Dang: Ok, let's start this party... Eui Am: 45 moves. New techniques include a low knife hand inward block that starts the form (and an inward version, with the ridge hand), reverse outer forearm block, an X-fist downward block (which appears to be a kind of checking technique), reverse knife hand high block (lots of reverse blocking in general here), high reverse turning kick (knee stays locked), high crescent punch, knife hand wedging block, reverse knife hand circular block, downward block with palms, and includes backward double stepping footwork. We see lots of the previous basic blocks done in other forms done here, but with open hands, and on the reverse sides, which were typically done on the same side as the forward foot. The reverse high turning kicks seem especially challenging, as the kick stops but doesn't hook, making it a challenging technique to control. Lots of powerful checking and blocking hand techniques to explore applications from. Choong Jang: 52 moves. We get palm scooping blocks, knee kicks, twin palm pressing blocks (which we do really low), a back hand downward strike (we just do a back hand strike), a back fist side front strike (we do horizontal elbow strikes here...), twin knife hand strikes, arc hand strikes, twin fore-knuckle crescent punch (we don't use the fore-knuckle), and of note is the round kick done from one knee, followed by the punch, and then up into elbow strikes and on from there. We also have backward step-slide-turning. This is my current form, and I like it so much better than doing Yoo Sin (my previous form). I'm still working through all the turns and movements, but its coming along nicely. This form has that powerful feeling I got from doing Ge Baek, so I like it quite a bit. This is the 4th degree form in my school. Juche: 45 moves. There is much to be said about the conundrum between Juche and Ko Dang, but I'll leave that topic out, because it tends to fall along some political lines between Choi's time of being in South Korea, and then joining North Korea when he didn't get any support in South Korea. So, the form. This one will be nasty for me. New techniques include a downward back fist strike, one leg stance parallel block, inner forearm parallel blocks (wedging blocks), a hooking kick which looks like an outward crescent kick that stops abruptly at the apex, knife hand mid air strike (with a spin) and a flying consecutive punch, pick-shape kick which appears to be a straight leg axe kick, arc hand crescent strike, downward elbow thrust, twin inward knife hand strike, a downward punch, outer forearm downward block, and then the tricky kicking....dodging reverse turning kicks, and flying two-direction kicks. Footwork includes backward double-step-sliding. Holy cow, how hard can this form get?! You get to do a slow side kick that then becomes a hooking kick that spins around slowly to hook an attacker behind you. You get hooking kick/consecutive side kick. This form repeats itself pretty well, so you get all these kicking techniques on each side, like the jumping/dodging turning kicks. There is a section in the middle of the form with retreating hand techniques, where there is blocking and then downward elbow thrusts, and blocking and downward punch, showing a section where the practitioner is really subduing and enemy and finishing him off. Then there is the two-direction kick, and the jumping consecutive punches. In my eyes, a really tough form, and things aren't going to get easier from here for 2nd dans. Ko Dang: 39 moves in this form, so a little break on the length. The form starts out interestingly in that it seems to be retreating for the first several move sets, before coming forward with palm pressing blocks. The side kicks in the form are actually back kicks, as they set up a bit differently than the side kicks usually do. The back kick hits its target, and then the student is dealing with the threats in front of him again. We also see the outward hooking/crescent stopping kick. There is not a lot of turning in this form, really, and the few turns usually have one or two techniques before the student is facing forward again. A very interesting form, and I like the setup here. Not nearly as daunting as Juche, but still a challenging form. GTF 2nd dan hyung, Jook Am: Holy techniques, Batman, this form has 95 moves in it! And lots of slow kicking, repeat kicking, and jump kicking. Lots of kicking going on here. Slow back kicks followed by consecutive fast high back kicks, slow side kick/consecutive fast side kicks, reverse hooking kicks followed by pick shape kicks. Slow front kick, followed by consecutive fast front kick (those are tough on the quads!). High inner crescent kick followed by jumping 360 degree inner crescent kick. Outward vertical checking kick consecutive side kick. Not to be lost in the kicking are some solid hand combinations, like the low X-block to high X-block and then pulling hand with punch, a nice joint lock combination. Reverse hook kick consecutive round kick, and jumping spin back kicks, and jumping 360 degree spin back kicks. Towards the end of the form, when you are starting to tank out, there are some triple consecutive kicking, done slow, then fast, with round kicks and side kicks. Our friend the two-direction jump kick makes an appearance, as do jump spinning hook kicks, dodging reverse turning kicks, and if all the jumping kicks aren't enough, the jumping spinning knife hands, and the jumping consecutive punching. Then it finishes with consecutive kicking in 3 different directions. I'm tired just watching that form. I'm sure it will be fun to perform. WTF/Kukki 2nd dan Poomsae Keumgang: 27 moves. This forms emphasizes the hinge block, that you see with the hand over the hip in what looks like the angle punch position, and then a spinning version of the same block, as well as the "diamond" block its named for, done in slow motion in a one-leg stance. We see forward palm strikes and retreating inward knife hand middle blocks, and the mountain block with stomps. Interestingly, no kicks in the form aside from stomp kicks, and its fairly short. ATA 2nd dan form, Jung Yul: 82 moves, this form translates as "with your noble character, you will develop a new permanence in your life." This was the last form I did as an ATA student, and I found it particularly challenging. Shim Jun was a bit more direct, I felt, and although it was tough, it seemed less intricate. Jung Yul is tougher, with more slow spots in it, and the challenge of doing 3 consecutive round kicks in three different directions challenges your balance and leg strength. There is also the consecutive reverse hook kick/round kick, and a section with a three kick combination of jump 360 inner crescent kick (which we always called a "butterfly" kick) followed by reverse side kick then back leg side kick. With the hand techniques, we see an open hand block similar to the "diamond" block of Keumgang, along with a slow version of the high nine block, done in a rear stance. There are also more techniques done in combination from cross-legged stances, and we see more of the single hand technique. We have some hand technique combinations done without reaction force, and with the same hand, seen with the circular high block from back stance, shift to rear stance and downward palm block, then shift to middle stance and a long lunge punch, all with the same hand and using the stance shifting to gain power. We see a change here in how double blocks are performed, as well. Instead of the cross-armed chamber we saw in Shim Jun, we do circular blocking where the arms make a wide circle back, and then are brought abruptly forward or downward in a straight line to the target area. We see this circular motion in twin downward knife hand strikes, and a downward knife hand strike. Our good friend, the jumping spinning knife hand strike, ends the form. Edit for Jung Yul: New kicks: #2 outer axe kick [12, 57], jump reverse inner crescent kick (butterfly kick) [43]. New blocks: circular hooking block [9, 10, 54, 55], side high knife hand/low open hand block [17, 62], reinforced inner forearm block [18, 63] (other hand on outer edge of blocking fist), downward palm block [26, 71], inward palm block [28, 73], high 9-block [40, 42], circular single outer knife hand block [14, 59]. New strikes: horizontal elbow strike, vertical back elbow [1, 3], horizontal hammer fist strike [20, 65], downward elbow strike [7, 52], arc hand strike [15, 60], downward knife hand strike (single, double, circular) [31, 39, 41, 46, 76], twin punch [5, 50]. New stances: X-stance [6-8, 18-20, 31, 51-53, 63-65, 76], one-leg stance [15-17, 60-62]. Type of movements are tension movements, slow movements, circular movements, and single-arm blocks and strikes. Now, these are all very brief discussions of each of these forms, and we can delve much deeper in comparisons, as much as you all would like to! Just point out a spot or a form, and let's compare and contrast away! Also, the caveat is that I have experience in only some of these forms, so if those of you with experience in these other forms see where I am off on my descriptions or observations, please, please, PLEASE chime in and let's discuss them! Like I said at the beginning, 2nd dan forms is a gauntlet, and I will put myself through it, eventually.