MartialArthur

It is only the very rare and exceptional child (under 16) who is capable of being a black belt. I know a few of these children. They in no way "water down" the art, in fact they are shining examples of the benefits of martial arts. Our instructor program is a separate program. While all instructors are black belts, not all black belts are instructors. Under 18 cannot be certified as an instructor in our org.

Ummm... by performing or recording it. In the U.S., all artists have an automatic copyright on each original piece they make, whether it's a painting, a film, a song, or a form. If I perform or record a Pearl Jam song and they find out about it, I'm sure they would sue me because their songs are both art and copyrighted. Sure, everyone can enjoy the song, just don't record or perform it without their permission (which would involve $$). I guess that's fair because they have to make a living and can't just give everything away. You can optionally register your "work of art" (painting, song, software, book, form, etc) with the Library of Congress to officially record your copyright. That makes it easier to prove that it's yours in a lawsuit. The ATA feels that the forms they developed are valuable and proprietary to their system, so they protect them. That also helps them control the quality of the forms.

Isn't that we we are all offering here, opinions? Shinobi187 offered his opinion, and I strongly disagree with his contention, so I offered mine. Of course, but I'm talking about taking students from each org and putting them in a style neither has trained in.

Shinobi187, I have to disagree. Among my students I have several former WTF students and several former ATA students. In my opinion the former ATA students arrive as superior martial artists. They seem to be more well rounded and tend to be better at sparring. I'm not saying that the WTF students are not good, I've just been pleasantly surprised by the ATA students.

Yes, there is a problem, and it's a problem we will all face sooner or later. We will all reach a point in our training when are physical skills can no longer improve. I'm hoping to put that off as long as possible, but at 45 I suspect I'm approaching that point. It's not uncommon for martial arts organizations to consider teaching and leadership contributions made to the art and the organization for the very high ranks. When a 60 year old man makes seventh degree BB, I doubt that he would be expected to be more physically skilled than he was at 35 when and going for his 3rd degree.

Good point whitematt. I offer superior training and instruction to my students, so of course it's a little more than the competition. If competitor pricing does come up, I actually tell the prospective student "Yes, it's true that we are not the cheapest martial arts training in town." Then I explain to them about our program, training and class availability. I don't know that I've ever lost a new student on price. If price is their primary consideration, I probably don't really want that student.

Cool. I'm in Flower Mound (near Lewisville)

RF_Brown, where in DFW?

You definitely have to be old enough to pass the test. If you can't pass the test, you shouldn't be a black belt.

It doesn't have to be that way. Our organization does not allow more than one judge from the same school in a ring. We also have a high ranking supervisor (who is not judging) monitoring each ring for consistency. Of course the judges are only human and make mistakes, but I have not seen any "bad judges" in any of the dozens of tournaments I have been involved with.

I guess it really depends on how you define "middle class". My school is in a middle class suburban area and I have no problem attracting students at $90/month. Sure, there are many families that cannot afford it, but many can. If I cut my price in half, I doubt I would double my enrollment. Fact is, I would rather have 100 students at $90 each instead of 200 students at $45 each anyway. Either way you would gross $9000/month, but it would be easier to provide quality instruction to the smaller student base. One of the biggest mistakes instructors make is not charging enough.

I teach the Chung Hun forms which I believe is what ITF teaches

I don't recognize the name. Where is he?

I am with Taekwondo America - https://www.taekwondoamerica.org .

In 1983 I was a yellow belt and we did not spar until green (there was no orange back then). At green we started sparring, and yes, we did not use gear. A few years later we started using gear for training only, and eventually went to gear for tournaments as well. Today I don't think that I could get insurance if I didn't require my students to use safety gear. I would probably have difficulty getting students as well. Many people have to go to school or work the next day, so black eyes and broken noses won't do.

When I was in the ATA (a few years ago) there was definitely significant contact at the Black Belt levels. You were not allowed to spar until reaching green belt, and we taught the green belts to use light or no contact so that they could learn control and how to spar without killing each other. Since they had little control at that level, the safety gear was essential to prevent injuries. Acceptable contact levels increased at higher color belt levels. I'm not with the ATA now, but my current organization has a similar arrangement... except we allow hand contact to the head. I ask my students to buy their gear from me. I charge the catalog price, which is about $160 for the whole set. Hopefully my students would rather see their instructor make a few dollars than the big corporations. Century already has more money than they need. I'm trying to keep my monthly fees reasonable, so the money I make on gear helps me do that.

Martial arts and street fighting are both fighting systems. The better fighter would win. The martial artist has the advantage of being taught how to win by someone who is skilled. However, the street fighter may (or may not) have learned from the "school of hard knocks". If the katas were taught properly,including purpose and application, he would have something to work with. I personally think it's not appropriate to teach MA for self-defense without actual fight training. I know some Tai Chi practitioners who do not spar or fight, but they don't seriously think they are getting fighting or self-defense training either.

You just need to charge your students enough. You probably offer training that is worth more than the price students pay. Like Sensei Rick, I have made more in my previous careers, but I have never been more satisfied. Understanding the "business" side of instructing is equally important with the "instructing" side. For example, charging "testing fees" is objectionable to some, but if they are a normal part of your program, your students will pay them. Just make sure you provide them with a good value. Like any other profession, you must be paid the services you provide and the work you do. If you don't charge your students enough to keep you in business, you are doing them a dis-service.

Wouldn't that be like asking if all restaurants should standardize their menus so that they are all serving the same thing? I like many of the ways that our organizition does things, and I dislike the way some other organizations do things. That's why I'm in my organization. I'm sure there are others who like their organization including the things I don't like. I'm fine with being different.

Yes, $500 sounds steep, but there are too many other factors to just say that it's too much. All good school owners have a business plan. They know how much they need to make for the school to stay in business and make a reasonable salary. Part of that plan is revenue from testing fees. If they lowered the testing fee price (or did not charge), they would have to make it up somewhere else, usually in the monthly fees. There are also costs involved with testing that probably include association fees. It's up to you to decide whether or not it is a good value. At my school, BB testing fee is $100.

I have heard people say that they cannot be in a martial art because they "cannot serve two masters" as it says in the Bible. This is a silly argument, because few MA practitioners actually "serve their master". If anything the master serves them by providing instruction. I often wonder if these same people will not allow a master mechanic to work on their car or avoid calling a master electrician to wire a new light fixture in favor of an apprentice or journeyman. *