harmoniouswarrior

Wow, just discovered this thread, and it's loaded with good ideas. Justice Zero: 'Outside surfaces return different energy.' Love it. bushido_man96: 'Open space' is a great term. Seems to me especially important if there's a potential weapon used by the attacker (as in, open space to his empty hand side). Because of a recent incident, this has been on my mind. Something I do often is use an extra belt to connect the partners in sparring. I'll have them loop the belt through both their belts and then tie it at different lengths. We might do leg distance to start, then extended-arm length, and then 18-24 inches...the beginning distance for many real world encounters. Amazing how reducing the space focuses the attention

You've gotten some good advice here, and I won't repeat it -- will just say, yeah, nothing beats training. What I think happens to us in these situations is the adrenaline is dumped into our system, and we have to channel it: do I fight, or do I use 'flight'? Since our brain is not working at optimum under stress, we have a hard time deciding, and that causes the paralysis. Later, when the old gray matter is back, we kick ourselves and ask, Why didn't I...? BTW, after decades of fighting such ego matches as you've described, I now try in such situations to just apologize. Not abjectly - it's good to keep the steel in ones voice - but still a smile and brief apology (sorry if I did something to offend you), often takes the wind out of their sails. And it costs me nothing.

Me too.

Old thread, I know, but it still shows up, so... Some things I've collected along the way: Good two minute piece, 2 guys *working out*: Assorted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGGKJOhubu0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bV5VJY8XG8&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoI-ixa45Oo&mode=related&search= Who says girls can’t fight? Bigger guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8jr8pv9Jxg An instructor demonstrating: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K68U6FfTcC0 Camp Pendleton, 1997:

This is a weak area for me, too. So I try to (1) move the same direction his kick is coming (i.e., away from it, if a round house), and as I plant, that's a set up for counter kick; or, (2) as someone else said, move in fast--even jump right into him to take away his center/balance. You can often knock an opponent down with just such a shoulder bump, but he'll definitely be off balance and open for a fast attack; (3) use a feint, as the old boxing jab, move position, and let it rip with fists. Anyway, you can beat this guy. Just have to take him out of his game, and make him play yours. Best of luck. I'd love to hear how any of these ideas worked for you (or anyone else).

My style is a blend of Kung Fu San Soo--mostly body fighting, with nerve center and soft tissue strikes also--and Shaolin Kempo--more finesse with hand techniques, precision in striking targets, and also some higher kicks. Both are great arts on their own, and I'd be satisfied with either. It's just that I accidentally ended up cross training for about 4 years, and they blended on their own. Call it Kempo Kung Fu.

This says it all. Asking for advice gives your instructor a chance for input, and if he really has your best interest at heart, how can he say No?

Yes, this is a little-known, very fast, powerful, usually unexpected strike.

Absolutely! Great post.

This is not a bad strategy: hard-on-soft (strike to target), and soft-on-hard.

Sorry, got to disagree. A palm heel strike to the chin, nose, philtrum, ear, bone behind ear, jaw hinge, even solar plexus or front point of shoulder (doubles as a block), will do just as much damage as closed fist--after all, it's still striking with the object at the end of your arm. Difference is, I don't chance injuring my closed fingers on his hard bones. Kathy Long suggests this: Strike a cement wall with your palm heel (fingers back!! to avoid injury--palm must hit first). Now, try striking the same wall with your fist. You can generate just as much force/cause just as much pain with open palm.

I suppose it depends on a few things. Like how the punch misses(is your hand past their head now or to one side of their head?). One of the more common things i train is a palm from a passive position straight up under the chin from underneath the field of vision, the impact on the jaw and snapping back of the head alone would be enough to ward of most people, if it doesnt, or your hand slips "up" along their face, you can slip the hand straight back down their face from top to bottom clawing or gaining control of the face. Im sure their would be certain instances where you could open your hand after you missed a punch, but it would require that extra peice of movement and the moment where your not attacking to make it work. Yeah, this would pretty much be my answer, too.

Awesome, Sir. I was an HM2, 1971-75. Unfortunately, I have been in many street fights (last one over 20 years ago). My 'record' was probably about 46-2. That was before CMA training. Now, I find that TMA has given me many more options and so much more confidence (vs. larger opponents, multiple opponents, disadvantaged positions, etc.); this in turn allows me to not feel I have to prove anything, and so prevents violence. People often comment on how calm I am. That's partly form CMA. So, CMA=confident, calm demeanor=nonviolence.

Sounds like you're at a good place, shift. If you're interested in learning more about how forms are actually uselful for fighting, check out The Way of Kata (book) by Lawrence Kane & Kris Wilder. Fantastic (even though done by karate-ka, it's inclusive of CMA forms also). Also, Iain Abernethy has some great books, articles and videos along the same lines.

Love it! What if we started every beef on the street that way!!!! Wouild stop 95% of them before they started.

I don't study Tai Chi, but admire it and would like to study one day. I do have the video from this guy tho, and it's pretty impressive: http://www.internaldamagetaichi.com/ He's LEO, and demonstrates in a grafittied wash, or some such.

Have been meaning to tell you, I'm getting DSL soon so I can actually view such things, and plan to check out your vids then.

I had the good fortune to train Kung Fu San Soo for a time, and will say 'it's all about combat' is exactly right. Not sparring, not self defense, but combat (i.e., use only in places you cannot be prosecuted or sued). Not for everyone, and I couldn't do it forever (physically), but it's pretty different from some of the flashier kung fu styles (not to discredit any kung fu--just to say there are many strains). One master I know of affectionately calls kfss 'ugly kung fu.'

Nicely said! Good reminder. We forget (or don't realize) how much damage these techniques can do on a real body, especially if it's on the ground or jammed against a wall or car.

Most of the street kids I work with (and their adult homies) think hitting to the groin and kicking are cheap shots. They'll tell you that just before they and four or five of their friends jump you and stomp on your head once you're down. If I ever have to fight (again), I'll do it my way. And I let them know that up front if it comes up.

If what you're doing now is working, don't let the 'experts' talk you out of it. And later if there are things in it you can't do (high kicks, jumping, whatever), ask if they can be modified for one of us oldtimers (or just, been-around-the-block-ers). But if you're looking for something new, first I want to say that my first art/first love was hapkido. But my knees couldn't take it (this was before 'combat' hapkido). Aikido, same thing. I would suggest trying Kenpo/kempo. There are several main strains, and much diversity among schools/organizations in ways it's taught. Just try it out and see if it's a good fit. Keep us posted!

Agreed. One of the main benifits of palms is that they flow into so many other things, you can rake, rip, grab, tear, etc without having to retract your hand. Besides the hard on soft/soft on hard strike-to-surface which I prefer (which I think is the jist of this discussion, and which I don't want to get into), I like the opportunities you mention which open hands provide. Trapping, grabbing, leveraging, throwing, gouging, poking, etc. etc. can all end the fight with just small adjustments of body distance (stance). Two examples: forward, thumbs into throat; backward, grab and twist whatever he offers (arm, hand, chin/back of neck). Anyway, that's just my preference, and I think that's really what this comes down to, preference.

This has been my experience as well. Sometimes, it is just not as easy as "using the thumb as the weak link." That stated, I am a big fan of distraction strikes prior to releasing. After reading this thread and admring the myriad techniques out there (most of which actually work!), I have to say I revised my original reply (in my head--where I'm a legend, ya know?), and agree that a good shin kick (or even a bad one) will take his focus just long enough to allow one to escape an overwhelming attacker.

That is a good idea. I may do that, but I'm really not interested in training with legacy, traditional MA weapons such as Okinawan farm implements. Gun, knife, etc defense interests me - modern day weapons. Using a cane or umbrella to defend would be interesting. But I would most likely start fencing again before I did any other weapon training. Know what you mean. But I use the forms learned in TMA with modern implements: sabre=cane; Bo staff=hiking stick; double ax=double collapsed/hooked umbrellas; spear=rifle with bayonet (for teaching teens who may be future GI's), etc. Works out well. I get to train and carry a legal 'weapon' at all times. Many other possibilities, too. Your fencing could even be put to good use with legal-to-carry canes.

Thanks, Baron. Only you know you're body, but joints are what made me change direction--not arts, just how I practice and learn them. I'd say great, if you have the passion for them. Do you feel just as motivated to do the new arts (I coucdn't find anything that came close to the appeal of my base arts), or are you 'settling'. Might be important. I gave up going to classes with 20-somethings who think they'll live and be young forever (remember?) and replaced it with teaching classes to teens and kids. Began with one class a week a year ago; now have four classes and three different cohorts of kids. And I love it! Still get the benefit of moving bodies around, improving technique (A man, as long as he teaches, learns--Seneca). Can't rely on getting good info from any previous teachers, because if I'm not paying, I'm not playing. But am discovering other ways to get info/improve.