harmoniouswarrior

What about bigger teens? Would you award them a black belt earlier? And what about smaller women? Would you not award them? I for instance am 5 foot 2, thats shorter than most 14 year olds, and a lot of 12 year olds.... The exceptions are important to consider, but wouldn't sway my basic tenet: A black belt must at least have a reasonable expectation of holding her/his own against an attacker. I've personaly seen small women who could be very effective (and of course, there are many--even black belts--who may not be). In working with adolescents professionally the last two decades, have come to think their age is more relevant than size. Not always, of course, but in general. Would take a smaller 15 year old with more strength pound for pound and more maturity in using her head to avoid/escape trouble than a larger but younger student. But again, this is only my preference, and I only offer it as food for thought.

I think this is a question much like 'Which style is the best'? It's really, which style is best for me considering body type, age, physical limitations or strengths, availability of schools, etc. Personally, I start kids at 9 earliest, then add a couple of extra novice ranks so it alllows more time for their growth, but still feels like progess. Want to see them be 15 or so before bestowing black belt. My rule of thumb: My black belts should be able to fight off a man (attacker/kidnapper/robber, etc.). It's still shaking out (only started this a couple of years ago), but so far so good. Anyway, that's what works for me.

I'd pretty much agree with this overview...

[quote="bushido_man96"]I think doing a martial arts sport team in schools would be great. They could do it like some of the college teams are set up, and have a rules set, and travel and take on other schools, like wrestling teams do. As for the students fighting, you have that in almost every sport. Football players and wrestlers are just as bad. Sure, you could tell them not to do it, and punish if they do, but I don't think it will be all that bad. Good observation. I actually have a MA team in a public school (continuation high school), and for many kids this is the first time they have ever really felt respected without having to fight.

NM

Life's too short...

I work with three bouncers who trained wrestling only that will tell you otherwise.. All I'm going to say on this whole thread is, the four scariest guys I've known in my life--and I've seen war, was in dozens of street figths for silly reasons when younger, taught gang kids for the past 16 years (and buried 15 of them; seen many more get cracked with tire irons, jumped by 5 or 6 to one, shot at but missed, etc.) and so on ad nauseum --these four guys would be white belts if they had ever deigned to enter a martial arts studio. But then, why would they? As a second degree BB in one art, and with years of study in others, I would have stood little chance aginst any of them. Martial Arts to me is just learning to do the best I can with what I've got. In a real situation--whether real in sport, real on the street, or real in a war zone--it may be enough, it may not. If I'm fighting for a just cause (to me, that means not just to save face, or protect my ego), then my best is enough--even if I 'lose'. As someone (elbows_and_knees?) said, sooner or later we'll all meet our match. I have on a couple of occasions already. Peace. -HW

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Why play around? Why not go beyond the local to a world stage 'fight club'. It's called the US military, and the fight is on 24/7 in Iraq or Afghanistan, to name a couple of 'rings' (for me and probably some other old timers, it was Vietnam). See, I always thought martial arts was for the purpose of preparing for an emergency situation when we might have to deal with a 'crazy'. But the solution is in the preparation because the paradox is, the more prepared I am, the less I'll need to use it--predators are good at street survival, and can sense who would not make a good victim. So, martial arts is about peace over power. BTW, do you have an older master in your art whom you could run this by? Might save you much grief.

NM

I went to a small university for my master's degree, and there was one prof who taught many of the classes. He and I were like water and oil; we both knew it, but were stuck with each other. I'm sure that if he could, even now 10 years later, he'd rescind my degree if he could. But I did the work, proved myself, and the diploma/title is mine for life. Why should he (or anyone else) have any say in whether I retain the master's degree? I look at my black belts the same way.

The problem with San Soo for street defense, is that it doesn't differentiate for example between a fist to the philtrum--which really hurts and will stop most attacks--and a fist to the throat (larynx), which will probably kill the other guy. In combat, the enemy isn't going to sue me, the police aren't going to dissect the event and decide I used excessive force to respond, and so prosecute me. In my mind, this is a drawback to San Soo in some schools--no discretion taught, and someone with little street experience is naturally going to do what they've practiced a thousand times, which may be more than they want to live with later. 'Combat' looks good in glossy magazines, and sounds like it makes us tough guys, but it may be overkill (literally) in many street situations. OK, let's lighten this up, now! I'm getting depressed...

This is not traditional HKD....no high kicks in traditional HKD, we have four kicks, front snap, roundhouse (turning kick in TKD), side and back, all aimed at the lower body and groin. I ask what is a cresent kick.....but am afraid of the answer!! a cresent kick is when u swing your leg in a circular motion from either the inside outside towards the head of your opponent.It looks nice, but it's hard to pull it off without it being noticed. Yeah, I've found it most useful in the form of a follow up strike, but shortened to a crescent knee after the oppnent has been doubled over by say, a front ball or snap kick. In this case, it is a low kick (no higher than the waist).

Well, don't want to sound like a crotchety old timer, but here's my take. I'm 54, and tried aikido--didn't work because I'm a more natural striker than grappler (injury background: have two bad knees, herniated disc in lower back from 20 years ago, have broken somewhere around 18 bones--all after age of 35, arthritis in neck, hands, and feet). Hapkido worked for me, but with the knees, I couldn't work it. Watched my daughter do Shotokan during her years in college, and what I saw definitely wears on the body, especially over time. Haven't done the speicfic type of kung fu called wing chun, but have done two other types (basically stand-up, striking arts), and for the long haul, that's what I'd recommend. Has great self-defense applications, and don't believe it will break down the body as karate might. I don't know about tournaments, but then I don't care about them either. That's something you'd have to check on. Best of luck, and hope to hear a followup post on what you chose and how it's going. HarmoniousWarrior

Way cool. He's obviously a great instructor. -HW

Thanks for the clarification, H2Whoa. Sounds like your instructor knows what he's about.

Shogeri makes good points. Just to further whet your appetite in the meantime, though, Northern Shaolin is generally considered more long-range than Southern. Someone mentioned horseback opponents; another theory is that the Mongolian indfluence made northern peoples taller, hence use of longer limbs. But follow Shogeri's suggestions and you'll have a good start. HW

Good points! Thanks. harmoniouswarrior

Traditional hapkido, first, is only for those with young joints. I tried to start at 40-something, and five knee sprains later was forced to bow out. But if you can hang with that, it has some very good street applications. The problem is, these are mixed in with totally unrealistic techniques, like an inside crescent kick to an opponent's head when you're at arm's length. Can set you up for a serious counter move by him. So, I found it was a matter of weeding out what I needed for the next belt test from what I'd use if someone jumped out of the bushes as I was walking to my car. BTW, those street-worthy moves/strikes began to be sprinkled in at white belt...So, usefulness does not have to take until 'mastery'. harmoniouswarrior This is not traditional HKD....no high kicks in traditional HKD, we have four kicks, front snap, roundhouse (turning kick in TKD), side and back, all aimed at the lower body and groin. I ask what is a cresent kick.....but am afraid of the answer!! Why would you be afraid of the answer to what a crescent kick is? Or is this a bit of sarcasm meant to cast me in a poor light? If the latter, cast away. I've heard the term in Shaolin Kempo, American Kenpo, Kung Fu San Soo, and Hapkido. All I know about high kicks in HKD is that Master Kim--who spoke broken English and was about as traditional as I've seen--taught them. The crescent was one.

Am I the oldest guy here, or what? I sometimes wish for the capabilities I had at 48 or 49. Can't really remember 44; and don't believe I was ever 36--maybe in another life At 54, have arthritis in my neck, hands, and I think, now, feet. Have only trained in MA for 11 years, but added to Vietnam, dozens of fights growing up, a couple of years of boxing, and all manner of jobs in my 20s (I guess), the old body is starting to complain. So, here's what I've done: 1) Quit the classes where we threw each other by the neck, and other assorted hard core practice (and no, the sensei was not sympathetic to any modifications--loved him, but not enough to be crippled for it) 2) Stopped hitting things with closed fists, other than on rare occasion to keep the ability (am discovering open hands are better anyway--faster, and more striking options, along with easier transition to grasping) 3) Mixed in more forms, and I don't care what anyone says, video has been helpful 4) Begun teaching more. This allows me to continue practicing what I love, while passing the torch. 5) Begun to take seriously the Chinese Qi Gong remedies for arthritis (et al). Honestly, I wouldn't trade the peace of passing 50 for all the physical freedom of 40. The things I've been blessed to learn from life and the serenity of realizing I'm not going to make the huge splash that I was sure of in my 30s, are worth the bodily changes. Give up martial arts? How can I give up who I am? But I don't worry about pleasing anyone else, including those who could give me 'promotions', or whatever. Those things are indicators of what someone else thinks of me, and as in the old saying, What other people think of me is none of my business. Peace to all aging warriors, HarmoniousWarrior

Pleased to help, and appreciate you letting me know. HW

Same for me. I learned it as part of five animal kung fu. Strongest points for me are the primary strike which elbowsandknees mentioned (especially to the throat--but it's potentially lethal, so not to be overused), and primay kicking principle of whipping motion from the hips (fast, fluid movement). HW

Congratulations, Patrick. 4 1/2 must be many lifetimes in web years, with all the evolutions. BTW, this is the first--and probaly last--MA forum site I belong to. Nice to find one that's civil, as well as open to all styles and ancestry. HarmoniousWarrior

Traditional hapkido, first, is only for those with young joints. I tried to start at 40-something, and five knee sprains later was forced to bow out. But if you can hang with that, it has some very good street applications. The problem is, these are mixed in with totally unrealistic techniques, like an inside crescent kick to an opponent's head when you're at arm's length. Can set you up for a serious counter move by him. So, I found it was a matter of weeding out what I needed for the next belt test from what I'd use if someone jumped out of the bushes as I was walking to my car. BTW, those street-worthy moves/strikes began to be sprinkled in at white belt...So, usefulness does not have to take until 'mastery'. harmoniouswarrior

Am in accord with virtually all that backfist says here. Want to add, though: Believe I said this in another post on the forum, but maybe bears repeating. A grandmaster (45 years experience) for whom I have deepest respect says in classes that he has no problem with students learning a second art. Just wants them to get to green belt (about half way to black) in his system before doing so. Otherwise, as others in this sequence have said, tends to just run together and create confusion instead of competence. Given that, I see no problem with what athletes in other fields would call cross training. In fact, I think it cuts down on wear and tear on ones body over a lifetime. This may not be a concern for the youngsters, but believe me it will become a concern if you want to practice an art for life. HW