IcemanSK

The name for a group of forms (like Tae Guek & Pal Gue). They each have unique names (Chon-Ji, Chung Moo etc). BTW: ITF is very rare EVERYWHERE!

Telling your opponent to ease up when needed is a good thing to do. Its sparring... Not a mugging. I used to train w/ a pro fighter who, even when he was young (18-19) always looked so comfortable in the ring. Never being comfortable myself, I asked him his secret. "Just keep doin' it," he said. I wish there was a great piece of wisdom to impart, but that's it. The more ya do it, the more train & watch others, the more relaxed you'll be. The gitters never totally go away, tho. And that's a good thing. It might sound odd, but it helps you stay sharp.

Well? How'd it go?

I don't know if its crazy or not, but you've certainly come to right place to discuss it. Seems pretty normal to me. But then again, its 1:40 am on a Thursday & I'm responding to your post on this board..

Hit the bag, stretch, go run, get a massage, talk to an old friend. Get out of own head for awhile. Back off your normal routine if you're feeling overwhelmed. It usually helps me.

My first question is "Why do you need a device to measure?" but I realize everyone has they're "thing". (I've got plenty of my own.) The only way I know to "accurately" measure is with a stretching machine (such as a Versaflex). I put accurately in quotes cuz, while it has a measuring devise like a protractor built in, a taller person & a short one would have different measurements to start out. (Its just where it hits your body when you sit in it.) I would suggest a stretching technique I learned @ a Bill Wallace seminar back in the stone ages. Sit on the floor w/ your legs apart a only a 90 degree angle. Set a timer for 2 (or 3) minutes. At the end of the time, put 1 hand in front of you, one in back, & move yourself forward (that is legs apart) only one inch. ...For another 2 or 3 miniutes. Do this 10 times. Its boring as anything, so do it while watching TV or reading or something. But doing it daily (or even 3 times a week) will really help your stretch. I've been doing it for years & its helped a lot. Sorry it doesn't directly answer you question Orion. But I think that if you do this, you'll see results.

Admit it, when the Rex Kwon Do pants from Napolean Dynamite were popular, did ya buy em cuz you could kick in em? I not only bought several pair (cuz Rick Roufus fought in em) I worked for a buddy who owned a body building clothing company & I helped make em, too. Who else is a geek like me?

Good luck! Sounds like a great opportunity.

This question has to do with how one deals with authority in the martial arts. In the rest of my life (outside the training hall) I've acheived a level of personal confidence from my education & experiences to be able to stand up to authority (in my career & in life) when I disagree. I've met my share of folks who take pleasure in lording their positions over people & making others feel as if they are worthless. I've had no trouble not only sharing my opnions with them, but (occasionally) telling them exactly what I thought of the way they treated me or others. In the MA world, it is very different. Because "respect" is the "rule" toward seniors, I've always struggled with where line of being able to "respectfully disagree" out loud is. (Part of this for me is because my "growth" in MA was "stunted at about 19 years old. Whereas I grew into my adult profession.) I've run across too many folks in MA that enjoy the "power" that the belt around their waist brings them & they lord it over others. From big things like how a technique is done. To little things like patches on a uniform. How does one disagree with a senior?

So am I..........but that's part of our culture. It make our training just that much harder. We've got to learn to let go. Us Westerners like it so much, we feel the need to put our rank stripes on our belts as milestones of our journey. I've spoke to a lot of non-MA folks (usually kids, but adults too) that ask "what are those stripes on your belt for?" While I've tried to point to higher ranks (those w/ more stripes than me) & say something to the kids like "It means they've been doing this a long time & they deserve respect." To them it still translates, "Oh, so he/she could kick your butt." The deeper meanings don't get translated in those rank stripes either. My 1st instructor was a young (32) Korean man with an old belt with no stripes to show his rank. His Kukiwon Cert. was on the wall of his office, but it all about the journey for him. The next school I went to, the American instructor had his rank clearly marked for all to see. (And his wasn't real!) He had doctored rank certs on the wall of his office. I don't want to make it sound like the opposite doesn't happen or to make it sound like a deeper spiritual "Kung Fu" episode. But there needs to be another way to get across more than "more stripes on your belt means he can kick your butt."

How does it rate among other heavyweight uniforms? From Century's own canvas uniforms to the heavy hitters. How does it compare?

I agree that its just the begining. Its funny how the Western mindset prizes the piece of cloth around your waist to prove what we've learned. (I'm just as guilty of it). I did notice that my mindset changed when I trained at a gym that didn't used belts. My focus became much more on internal motivation, rather than where I "ranked" in the class. While I still had external motivators (I liked this guy's technique on that kick or that gal's stances etc.) it was easier to focus on getting my techniques right, or doing them better.

so if joe schmoe TKD guy changes one kick and calls it moo duck tae hap kwon do, he can make himself a GM. Wait a minute, I think this guy just opened up a school down the street from me. Didn't Napolean Dynamite train under him?

There certainly are differences between the two. (More so now than 25 years ago). The ITF (At least the folks I've met) is really into nailing down every detail of their forms. (The Sine Wave being a big part of that). My WTF school back in the early 80's, forms just were not as important. I still think its sad there isn't knowledge of & appreciation for the differences. Sorry it was a tough transition for ya, RFB.

I've talked w/ those folks too (I'm fairly sure). The ITF folks (of any type) are incredibly rare. One guy told me only about 10K practioneers in the USA. In my search, people have given me leads on individuals...not schools. The nearest Chung Do Kwon TKD school to me is more than 2 hours away. The other TKD schools in my area are mostly McDojo's by reputation. I'm also too slow & too old for Olympic style sparring anyway. I'm gonna see how this plays out. Thanks for your thoughts on it.

I'm a pre-Olympic WTF guy. I like the tradition stuff. The transition to ITF wasn't hard because of that. I'm not a sport TKD guy. The WTF folks I've started talking w/ are "old school". The ITf guys here don't teach anymore. I'm trying to encourage them to change that. (Or at least teach me to test me.) Ideally, I wouldn't have to choose. But I think it will come to that.

you have BB rank in each organization. You want to advance in rank because you've been asked to teach a class (free to students) At the local community center. Which do you choose? This is similar to the situation I find myself in. Only the schools are NOT on the same corner. They are far a part. I'm looking into both avenues. I'm not looking for a bash session. I'm wondering which did you think offers more in terms of help for the instructor etc.

Wow, I have noticed the factions in the ITF! In the last week, I've spoken or written to a lot of folks in the ITF & it seems like there's each BB has there own organization. I hadn't heard about the WTF's legal issues. Tell me more.

How far WOULD you travel if you you had to?

I think we should appreciate the differences between the styles, rather than standardize. We MA-ists (especially us TKD folks) tend to think that our way (or our set of forms) is "the way". But there's a lot of richness & cool parts to all of the sets of forms. It'd be better if we all learned (or at least learned to appreciate) each other's forms. Some of the old Korean masters know the Tae Guek, Pal Gue & Chang Hong (ITF) forms. With this broad knowledge they can add so much richness & depth to a great art form. So, in a word, no. Standardization isn't a good idea. Dare I say (I hate this word) inclusiveness is better.

Not the long trip 3-4 times a year to see your high rank instructor. But how far do you travel for regular workouts? If you make a weekly trip to train under a higher rank in addition to your normal training, add that too. In my career, I traveled a half hour for one school, 10 minutes for another, 1 1/2 hours for another, & 5 minutes each for 2 others.

I'm also speaking w/ some WTF folks (Old School Chung Do Kwon...My 1st school) where the closest school is more than 200 miles from me! The longest I ever traveled to train on a regular basis was an hour & a half (one way). I would make these trips regularly now, however.

MasterH: I was under the impression that the ITF standard was the Chang Hong forms (as I believe they're called) Chon-Ji, Chong Moo, Chu Chae etc. And the Tae Guek forms (1-8, w/out cool names) were standard for the WTF. And that the Pal Gue forms were older forms common to both at one time. I believe you that neither are standard for either organization. I think it would be hard to test for ITF rank w/out performing the Chang Hong forms. But I've been around long enough to believe just about anything can happen. I've trained doing the Tae Guek forms & the last 2 Pal Gue forms (which I liked a lot) & the Chang Hong forms (which I thought were much more interesting as the ranks progressed). The ITF does hold a special place for their forms. I was just at an ITF website where there's huge activity in the "forms forum" but not much on the sparring forum. I don't mind that there are 3 sets (Pal Gue, Tae Guek, & Chang Hong) forms. Or that any organization would allow each for testing. The problem comes when Master X only knows one set & thinks that those are "the one true way" to forms. I envision a more open world, where the 3 exist in harmony. Oh well, I can dream, can't I?

Okay, that's good to know. It wasn't that way when I was in it (quite a few years ago), good to know they've standardized. Thanks!! Aodhan No, they have not standardized. I teach both ITF and WTF material, I have no Kuk cert and my ITF cert ran out years ago. I stand corrected.

Sorry for the confusion. I'm 140 miles from Lompoc. SB is closer to me, but still a hike. The school owner is a physician that's why the message goes to his office during the day. Its quite odd. I found a guy in my town that's a 5th Dan ITF, but doesn't teach anymore. He told there's a group of them in my town. I'm trying to talk him into "gettin' the band back together." We'll see what happens. Thanks again for your help.